Storms and Convective discussion - 1st June 2020onwards

[Justin1705]

The cloud top heights are not very high at all so all storms today are surface based and home grown. However there seems to be a CZ (convergence zone) of the Kent/Surrey area. 
 

it’s very oppressive  Today but I’m not sure any activity will be thundery until it clears NW London. My reason being is that there is a lot of cruddy high level cloud forming which is inhibiting and further surface heating. So we may be lucky but these cells are not really doing much and keep back building but dissipating as they reach London.

hopefully there is sufficient energy over the capital to spark the instability but I’m not sure it will !
 

 

[Buddiefan]

32 minutes ago, Liam Ellis said:

I can still hear the occasional rumble of thunder here in the north western part of Snowdonia.  

Not making much northerly progress

[Justin1705]

The cloud top heights are not very high at all so all storms today are surface based and home grown. However there seems to be a CZ (convergence zone) of the Kent/Surrey area. 
 

it’s very oppressive  Today but I’m not sure any activity will be thundery until it clears NW London. My reason being is that there is a lot of cruddy high level cloud forming which is inhibiting and further surface heating. So we may be lucky but these cells are not really doing much and keep back building but dissipating as they reach London.

hopefully there is sufficient energy over the capital to spark the instability but I’m not sure it will !
 

 

[weathertoski]

6 minutes ago, Justin1705 said:

The cloud top heights are not very high at all so all storms today are surface based and home grown. However there seems to be a CZ (convergence zone) of the Kent/Surrey area. 
 

it’s very oppressive  Today but I’m not sure any activity will be thundery until it clears NW London. My reason being is that there is a lot of cruddy high level cloud forming which is inhibiting and further surface heating. So we may be lucky but these cells are not really doing much and keep back building but dissipating as they reach London.

hopefully there is sufficient energy over the capital to spark the instability but I’m not sure it will !
 

 

Was just wondering the same thing. I have an excellent view to the south-west out of my loft and while there is some potential it just doesn't look quite right. The cumulus formations are a fraction too much on the strati-form side at present. Anyway, hope I am wrong. 

[Justin1705]

Just now, weathertoski said:

Was just wondering the same thing. I have an excellent view to the south-west out of my loft and while there is some potential it just doesn't look quite right. The cumulus formations are a fraction too much on the strati-form side at present. Anyway, hope I am wrong. 

Unfortunately I think your right. I think there’s to much moisture and low level cloud and cumulus is gonna get in the way of any proper development. Could be wrong but fingers crossed

[summer blizzard]

Can somebody expand on the storms being surface based. Here in Leeds it's getting much hazier but the clouds are not towering.

[Justin1705]

1 minute ago, summer blizzard said:

Can somebody expand on the storms being surface based. Here in Leeds it's getting much hazier but the clouds are not towering.

Surface based is from surface heating convection( heat that rises) therefore cloud surfaces are low and Cloud to ground strikes are more frequent, and elevated is when it’s a more unstable atmosphere and at higher altitude, but more Intercloud strikes. We are usually a breeding ground for surface based storms and storms imported from France are elevated.

 

but when cloud is in the way it stops convection (heat rising) and inhibits surface based storms 

[Rush2019]

This is looking North West over Altrincham at the Manchester cell.

[Justin1705]

To extinguish the difference the radar returns are more pixelated whenever a storm is elevated. And when it’s clear and high resolution  it’s surface based 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Justin1705

[summer blizzard]

7 minutes ago, Justin1705 said:

Surface based is from surface heating convection( heat that rises) therefore cloud surfaces are low and Cloud to ground strikes are more frequent, and elevated is when it’s a more unstable atmosphere and at higher altitude, but more Intercloud strikes. We are usually a breeding ground for surface based storms and storms imported from France are elevated.

 

but when cloud is in the way it stops convection (heat rising) and inhibits surface based storms 

Ah yes, I assumed most were were caused by surface heating and the unstable atmosphere. I was just concerned at the lack of towering.

 

[KeegansPerm]

4 minutes ago, summer blizzard said:

Can somebody expand on the storms being surface based. Here in Leeds it's getting much hazier but the clouds are not towering.

You've yet to reach the temperature needed for cumulus formation. A weather balloon from Nottingham Watnall at 11:00 UTC, suggested a temperature of of around 20 C needed to initiate surface convection (in the air that sampled). Lack of cumulus on the satellite images suggests that is still the case E of the Pennines, surface observations suggest the temperature more like 18-19 C in the Leeds region, where it is low 20s C further W (across NW England) where convection is deeper, and probably more moisture at mid levels.

[matty8]

Nothing crazy happening development wise around me today in EA but I'm hopeful the change in atmospheric conditions mid-late afternoon and some cooling may help. Either way development has been slow up to now - anticipating isolated storms later though. Keeping an eye on it! Tomorrow looking more promising as it stands..

[Weather-history]

Quite a poky storm just to my east. 

[Paul Sherman]

5 minutes ago, Justin1705 said:

To extinguish the difference the radar returns are more pixelated whenever a storm is elevated. And when it’s clear and high resolution  it’s surface based 

Is it ??

Well thats a new one on me - Learn something new every day 

[AMeltedFlake]

My friend from Birmingham is currently up at the lake district (brave ) but he's just sent me this! 

[summer blizzard]

Temperature at Bingley now 21C so must be close but I'm impressed at the slow motion and back building in Manchester.

[Justin1705]

1 minute ago, Paul Sherman said:

Is it ??

Well thats a new one on me - Learn something new every day 

Yeah bro. Because when the storms are elevated it’s harder to get a high res image as radar returns aren’t very good. But when surface based it’s high res and can be seen much easier. 
 

I only learnt it recently ! 

[ChezWeather]

7 minutes ago, Justin1705 said:

To extinguish the difference the radar returns are more pixelated whenever a storm is elevated. And when it’s clear and high resolution  it’s surface based 

Is that not just because the NW radar runs in a lower resolution over France?

[Zak M]

Just now, Justin1705 said:

Yeah bro. Because when the storms are elevated it’s harder to get a high res image as radar returns aren’t very good. But when surface based it’s high res and can be seen much easier. 
 

I only learnt it recently ! 

I think I have seen surface-based storms over France with low resolution.

[Paul Sherman]

2 minutes ago, Justin1705 said:

Yeah bro. Because when the storms are elevated it’s harder to get a high res image as radar returns aren’t very good. But when surface based it’s high res and can be seen much easier. 
 

I only learnt it recently ! 

Yh righto have been doing this for a long time and my sarcasm obviously never shone through in my post. I think you might have learnt it from a dodgy source

[Justin1705]

2 minutes ago, ChezWeather said:

Is that not just because the NW radar runs in a lower resolution over France?

No. If you watch an elevated storm reach the Home Counties it remains very pixelated. For the duration of the storm. Watch next time there’s an elevated storm.

[Paul Sherman]

Just now, Justin1705 said:

No. If you watch an elevated storm reach the Home Counties it remains very pixelated. For the duration of the storm. Watch next time there’s an elevated storm.

Its to do with the distance of the radar beam nothing more nothing less, has absolutely nothing to do with Surface or Elevated storms

[staplehurst]

14 minutes ago, Justin1705 said:

To extinguish the difference the radar returns are more pixelated whenever a storm is elevated. And when it’s clear and high resolution  it’s surface based 

I suspect that is heavily reliant on how close the storms are to each radar site (both horizontally and vertically) - if it's right near a radar site, the resolution is around 500m, but it gets progressively worse the further away from a radar site you are (such as over France, which is on the edge of the UK/Ireland radar network, or very high up vertically). Also, the further away from the radar site, the higher the beam is due to the curvature of the earth, and so it will be picking up precipitation more from the mid-levels rather than from the cloud base (depending on where the cloud base is, how tall the cloud is etc)

Edited June 15, 2020 by staplehurst

[Met4Cast]

1 minute ago, Paul Sherman said:

Its to do with the distance of the radar beam nothing more nothing less, has absolutely nothing to do with Surface or Elevated storms

Yeah I think this is most likely the reason - I've never heard of elevated storms looking different on radars compared with surface based storms either.

[Justin1705]

Just now, staplehurst said:

I suspect that is heavily reliant on how close the storms are to each radar site - if it's right near a radar site, the resolution is around 500m, but it gets progressively worse the further away from a radar site you are (such as over France, which is on the edge of the UK/Ireland radar network). Also, the further away from the radar site, the higher the beam is due to the curvature of the earth, and so it will be picking up precipitation more from the mid-levels rather than from the cloud base (depending on where the cloud base is, how tall the cloud is etc)

Thanks mate. Learn something new everyday. Thanks for not being sarcastic and rude, and actually showing me the true reasoning behind it imagine being passive aggressive when someone’s wrong? It’s a bloody cloud mate chill out Paul