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weirpig

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4 hours ago, weirpig said:

Somewhat related  protests going on at the London energy department.   makes you wonder why they dont bugger off and blockade somewhere in China or  america

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46172661

What, and then get the same cynics attack them for traveling there and producing CO2 in the process?

I've been convinced by the evidence for anthro climate change decades, and I see no evidence I'm wrong. I think we'll be very lucky if we don't see just 2C total warming, and (given the kind of reaction I see to anything that will really sort the problem) I think we might well burn every scrap of fossil fuel and send atmospheric CO2 up towards 1000ppm - in which case even fresh air will be bad for us (as if it often isn't already...)

The people involved in the protest are more convinced than I am, and they think it's important to take action. Good for them I say - criticism is easy, having the cojones to risk prison for what you believe in by taking non violent action is not.

Edited by Devonian

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Are piercings a prerequisite to be a part of this protest, or is it just a coincidence?

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9 minutes ago, Rambo said:

Are piercings a prerequisite to be a part of this protest, or is it just a coincidence?

Piercings are nowt to do with science. That much I do know!

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13 minutes ago, Rambo said:

Are piercings a prerequisite to be a part of this protest, or is it just a coincidence?

Is it me, or can I see straw falling out of your post?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Devonian said:

What, and then get the same cynics attack them for traveling there and producing CO2 in the process?

I've been convinced by the evidence for anthro climate change decades, and I see no evidence I'm wrong. I think we'll be very lucky if we don't see just 2C total warming, and (given the kind of reaction I see to anything that will really sort the problem) I think we might well burn every scrap of fossil fuel and send atmospheric CO2 up towards 1000ppm - in which case even fresh air will be bad for us (as if it often isn't already...)

The people involved in the protest are more convinced than I am, and they think it's important to take action. Good for them I say - criticism is easy, having the cojones to risk prison for what you believe in by taking non violent action is not.

It would be useful to understand that the protests in london wad against fracking why do you turn everthing into your own climate change adgenda as every post since you started posting again after the summer seems to be!!!

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15 minutes ago, jonboy said:

It would be useful to understand that the protests in london wad against fracking why do you turn everthing into your own climate change adgenda as every post since you started posting again after the summer seems to be!!!

The title of the link in the post I replied to was "Climate change protests leads to '22 arrests' over blockade" - it most certainly was about climate change! If you look at my posting style I generally reply to posts giving my pov.

You post your views, I post mine. if you don't like my views then I'm sorry but we are both equally entitled to post our views.

Edited by Devonian

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This thread is descending into pettiness and unproductive discussion (again). A polite reminder to stick to facts and keeping it civil.

Ta. 

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1 hour ago, Ed Stone said:

Piercings are nowt to do with science. That much I do know!

Nothing on this page 11, including the BBC article, is to do with science lol!

Edited by Rambo

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1 hour ago, Devonian said:

Is it me, or can I see straw falling out of your post?

 

 

Its definitely you.........

Discussing an "environmental activists" protest in a science forum, in an IPCC thread is apparently ok....despite having no relation whatsoever to the topic. So I thought piercings would be ok as well....obviously not? 🙂

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16 hours ago, Devonian said:

What, and then get the same cynics attack them for traveling there and producing CO2 in the process?

I've been convinced by the evidence for anthro climate change decades, and I see no evidence I'm wrong. I think we'll be very lucky if we don't see just 2C total warming, and (given the kind of reaction I see to anything that will really sort the problem) I think we might well burn every scrap of fossil fuel and send atmospheric CO2 up towards 1000ppm - in which case even fresh air will be bad for us (as if it often isn't already...)

The people involved in the protest are more convinced than I am, and they think it's important to take action. Good for them I say - criticism is easy, having the cojones to risk prison for what you believe in by taking non violent action is not.

I was pointing out  that  part of their protest was about Making the UK carbon neutral by 2025 (the government is considering 2050 as a date for that)  which most scientists have said is impossible.   As a country we are one of the best in the world in regard to climate change  and regardless what plans we put into place  when countries such as the USA and China are flouting climate change rules then the world will carry on on in its  tail spin.   I also like the bit about when they said Saturday will be classed as a civil disobedience day by   causing havoc.  Brilliant/  And even more humours is the fact that they are willing to go to jail for there protests.  What a day inside and a fine.  Maybe we should test there real resolve  send them to china to organise a civil disobedience day.  Let them protest there about the Chinese government and their climate change policies.  lets see if they will be willing to go to jail over there for their beliefs.   Thats the issue with all of these  protesters  ie these lot and the PETA activists   always pick on soft targets  yet the real people causing the problems  they dont want to know.      good in substance  poor in backbone

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29 minutes ago, weirpig said:

I was pointing out  that  part of their protest was about Making the UK carbon neutral by 2025 (the government is considering 2050 as a date for that)  which most scientists have said is impossible.   As a country we are one of the best in the world in regard to climate change  and regardless what plans we put into place  when countries such as the USA and China are flouting climate change rules then the world will carry on on in its  tail spin.   I also like the bit about when they said Saturday will be classed as a civil disobedience day by   causing havoc.  Brilliant/  And even more humours is the fact that they are willing to go to jail for there protests.  What a day inside and a fine.  Maybe we should test there real resolve  send them to china to organise a civil disobedience day.  Let them protest there about the Chinese government and their climate change policies.  lets see if they will be willing to go to jail over there for their beliefs.   Thats the issue with all of these  protesters  ie these lot and the PETA activists   always pick on soft targets  yet the real people causing the problems  they dont want to know.      good in substance  poor in backbone

You can always claim that any protest is a waste as there's always going to be a greater injustice elsewhere in the world. Employing whataboutism doesn't change the fact that the UK isn't doing enough to reduce emissions, regardless of what other countries are/aren't doing.
Clearly, if being one of the best in the world includes opening the countryside to fracking and encouraging additional offshore drilling, then much more can be done! The UK has the potential to lead the world by example, but clearly not the political will.

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2 hours ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

You can always claim that any protest is a waste as there's always going to be a greater injustice elsewhere in the world. Employing whataboutism doesn't change the fact that the UK isn't doing enough to reduce emissions, regardless of what other countries are/aren't doing.
Clearly, if being one of the best in the world includes opening the countryside to fracking and encouraging additional offshore drilling, then much more can be done! The UK has the potential to lead the world by example, but clearly not the political will.

What a load of drivel  Its that typical arguement that never gets anything done.  Look to be seen to do something  rather than actually confronting the main issue.   The fact however you want to gloss it  is that  we could be carbon neutral  yesterday   and the world would still be in dire straights   the fact is we all know were the issues lie  but will they protest over there  cause they wont.  Just one question what for you would be the better scenario. 1.  Us to  becomes carbon neutral  and the rest of the world including China and the USA  staying as they are. 2.  Us staying the same and china and america improving to our standards.  if its 2  kind of makes there protests a token gesture.  Still as long as it has the likes of you on board   

Edited by weirpig

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Feels like this thread is starting to run its course, the above posts aren't really discussing the issue at hand (the report). Prove me wrong and show this thread isn't dead for meaningful discussion or we'll close it.

Cheers.

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Shakhova & Semiletov tell us there is enough 'free methane' trapped under the failing permafrost that if a 'fraction' were to be released it would double our GHG additions since industrialisation and yet folk think it cleva to frack????

After the hot summer of 2016 in Yamal over 1,000+ 'Pingo like structures were seen to grown across the surface of the region.

Earlier this year prospecting teams found their sea floor equivalents that were massive compared to their land based counterparts ,well until we saw this reported;

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/arctic/2018/08/more-and-bigger-sinkholes-yamal-tundra

Shakhova/Semiletov are our 'go to ' experts for this region and Semiletov gave us a timeline for the appearance, growth and blowout of these structures......he says 3 years from start to finish....

So enjoy your IPCC outdated, expurgated nonsense a little while longer but don't say you were uninformed of the dangers to our North and its progression toward failure and climate impact!

We had our chance in the noughties to make the efforts that would have avoided this situation but the paid climate change deniers , and their unpaid sycophants, made sure this was never an option......well done fella's ,way to cost us a planet and our lives!! 

 

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On ‎01‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:25, weirpig said:

Will this have affect on the timescales involved ?.  massive under estimation 

https://us.cnn.com/2018/11/01/australia/ocean-warming-report-intl/index.html

Authors now accept their maths was wrong

In a statement posted online Friday, Keeling said “the combined effect of these two corrections to have a small impact on our calculations of overall heat uptake.” However, Keeling said the errors mean there are “larger margins of error” than they initially thought.

So, while Keeling said they still found there’s more warming than previously thought, there’s too much uncertainty to support their paper’s central conclusion that oceans absorbed 60 percent more heat than current estimates show.

“Our error margins are too big now to really weigh in on the precise amount of warming that’s going on in the ocean,” Keeling told The Union Tribune. “We really muffed the error margins.”

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I'm going, I don't have any piercings, I have a scientific background, a good career and a nice family home.  I also have children.  I have spent most of my working life aware of climate change and the science.  I have spent my whole life trying to do my little bit, taken part in protests, write to my MP, sign petitions etc, even support people taking the government to court over this.  I have now realise that all this has been to no avail and I see that carbon emissions are still rising and there is a realistic threat, even a likely threat that the world my children will inhabit will be far more turbulent than the one we enjoy today.  When famine, drought, wildfires, flooding happen people will be forced to move so it is not just the climate but the social impacts our children will have to deal with.  So by all means call me crazy, mock me and the 1000s of others there who are only acting based on what the science is telling us.  I hope the science is wrong and I hope that we are doing this for nothing, but it seems to me that we have few other choices left to us.  By the way I've never been imprisoned or arrested before and it is not something I consider doing lightly but we have got the the point where it is now or never.  I am prepared to risk my liberty, my career and my comfortable lifestyle.  I can assure you many of the people who are involved are in similar situations to me and are having to wrestle with the idea of making sacrifices now to avert catastrophe  We also as a country should be leading the way, we are wealthy, educated and have always stood up well in a crisis.  If we don't act how can we expect others to.  

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Apologies if this is off topic, but what's the point in discussing the science of climate change if we are not going to discuss it's impacts and how we can hopefully avert them.

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38 minutes ago, Sugarloaf80 said:

Apologies if this is off topic, but what's the point in discussing the science of climate change if we are not going to discuss it's impacts and how we can hopefully avert them.

I'd think that discussing impacts would be okay SL - so long as they're put into the proper scientific context; solar-energy production is science-based technology, in its own right...

It's the science-/evidence-free 'refutations' of AGW theory that're the main bugbear; closely followed, I think, by our all-too-human instinct for getting embroiled in fruitless 'he said, she said' type arguments. Both sides of the AGW debate can be held responsible of course, and we 'believers' can be rightly castigated for our tendency to tacitly expect everyone to be a science graduate. It does happen.

It's a difficult one alright!🤔

PS: Keep up the good work with the protests; the world needs more folks like you!:oldgood:

Edited by Ed Stone
moved hyphen

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Speaking of protests    one currently going on in London by the  extinction rebellion group   many roads blocked in the city centre 

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Keep-up with the protests, boys and girls -- if the powers that be won't take any notice of science, maybe their losing money will set them squealing?:oldgood:

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Just now, Ed Stone said:

Keep-up with the protests, boys and girls -- if the powers that be won't take any notice of science, maybe their losing money will set them squealing?:oldgood:

Im no Climate change denier  i understand that our actions are helping contribute to the warming of this planet   but i just wish protests would be better thought out    ive seen many pictures and live streaming of the protest in London   and the amount of plastic flags  banners   water bottles that are being used   has not passed me by    also surely bringing traffic to a standstill is causing more fuel consumption and car fumes being emitted into the atmosphere   2 weeks prptest apparently in london and various other cities in the world.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, weirpig said:

Im no Climate change denier  i understand that our actions are helping contribute to the warming of this planet   but i just wish protests would be better thought out    ive seen many pictures and live streaming of the protest in London   and the amount of plastic flags  banners   water bottles that are being used   has not passed me by    also surely bringing traffic to a standstill is causing more fuel consumption and car fumes being emitted into the atmosphere   2 weeks prptest apparently in london and various other cities in the world.  

How could protests be better thought out? I think that, actually, the message of the times we live in is that more anger and more 'irrationality' works (trump and a certain 'exit' are examples) gets results - indeed look at how well known a thug like Tommy Robinson is...

XR is non violent (as I am) but it does aim to make waves. I'm not part of it, but I do think the world is in a  mess and people need to wake up, or be woken.

As to car fumes, unless the stopped cars are idling there must be less, or ultimately the same, emissions today? As to plastic, I'm sure you'll be able to find plastic bottles and plastic - it is everywhere and almost unavoidable these days - that is the problem.......

Edited by Devonian

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2 minutes ago, Devonian said:

How could protests be better thought out? I think that, actually, the message of the times we live in is that more anger and more 'irrationality' works (trump and a certain 'exit' are examples) gets results - indeed look at how well known a thug like Tommy Robinson is...

XR is non violent (as I am) but it does aim to make waves. I'm not part of it, but I do think the world is in a  mess and people need to wake up, or be woken.

As to car fumes, unless the stopped cars are idling there must be less, or ultimately the same, emissions today? As to plastic, I'm sure you'll be able to find plastic bottles and plastic - it is everywhere and almost unavoidable these days - that is the problem.......

They even brought a boat from the otherside of the country via a truck   they have already smashed up the shell building     and the city is packed with middle class white people prancing around with flowers in there hair   lol  might go down to have a laugh    

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5 minutes ago, weirpig said:

They even brought a boat from the otherside of the country via a truck   they have already smashed up the shell building     and the city is packed with middle class white people prancing around with flowers in there hair   lol  might go down to have a laugh    

They've hardly 'smashed up the shell building' have they?  Afaict (and i might be wrong) just a single door has been broken.

But, again, what should people do in the way of protest? The things is, whatever people protest about someone will try to make out it's a class thing, or do a bit of stereotyping...

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