Spring moans, ramps, chat and banter

[sundog]

16 minutes ago, cyclonic happiness said:

I can't believe are yet again watching America being buried by snow, and yet we struggle to get an inch.  

3 years it'll be soon, 3 years without snow staying on the ground for more than 24 hours. Fair enough last week we had an inch, but it was slushy and was melting even as it fell. 

Try over 5 years without snow staying on the ground for more then 24hrs. I havent seen even an inch of snow since dec 2010 a number of dusting etc buts thats about it. Christ and i thought the 90s and 00s were bad.

 

[JOPRO]

Been out to the wood shed (no pun intened) all morning splitting firewood for the rest of the winter don't know why Ian bothering as it fells milder than when I did the last lot back at the end of September. It is disgustingly mild for the time of year but still plenty of time yet, after all we can always rely on that old wives tale that when it's cold in the US we get it two weeks later! Scientifically proven and guaranteeded  to verify.................. 

 

[snowspotter]

Anyone based in the South at least can forget any meaningful snow after Mid-February. So I think bearing in mind the current set up it is time to call this winter over for us Southerners.  Sure we may well get some snow but not anything long lasting on the ground. I am basing this on the fact that I am 52 years old and there has not been one really cold snowy spell down here after Mid February . In fact the only one early February is the 1991 epic. 

If you want a week long snow on the  ground you might need to head to high ground up North or maybe USA/Canada, The Alps or Scandinavia.

If your in Dublin , Cornwall or the Isle of WIght I'd give up !  

I always think Mid February is the cut off down here due to stronger sunshine etc. 

I dont see the point in a March Easterly that just provides days of snowfall and bugger all on the ground other than a bit on the downs

 

 

 

 

 

[Mapantz]

4 minutes ago, snowspotter said:

Anyone based in the South at least can forget any meaningful snow after Mid-February. So I think bearing in mind the current set up it is time to call this winter over for us Southerners.  Sure we may well get some snow but not anything long lasting on the ground. I am basing this on the fact that I am 52 years old and there has not been one really cold snowy spell down here after Mid February .

 

March 5th, 2009 - Near Corfe Castle.

[mushymanrob]

nature doesnt need this that or the other. things hibernate because its cold and theres no food - if its warm enough for food , they are in no danger.

frosts breaking up the soil?... i have no idea what you mean.... most arable farms scuff last years crops after harvest then direct drill, very little is ploughed in autumn to 'break down' (which wind wind, rain, sun, frost does anyway) and prior to drilling field are cultivated to break up the soil to a tilth regardless of how many frosts were had..... plus most farms dont let fields lie empty over winter, they cultuvate and drill them straight after ploughing. i have detecting permission on over 2000 acres scattered around mostly eastern england.

nature IS complicated, some things like a cold spell to thrive, others species thrive better in milder weather, theres no one rule that says nature likes or dislikes mild/cold, everything in nature is not governed by the same criteria.

[ukpaul]

Well, people easily forget but my parents were telling me about the flooding situation well before the media picked up on it here and yet, across the Atlantic, there are reports straight away of a snowstorm that affects nobody here. Forgive them and many others for thinking that they were being ignored and the anger and frustration that came with that. Someone involved in forecasting in the UK would do well to remember that there had been heavy disruption in the UK very recently and that extremes of rainfall matter just as much.

As for Knocker's attitude, I really don't care who it was raising Fergie's tweet, my response was about him and not the one highlighting it. Any attempt to put himself in the argument was only in his subsequent post after mine. I had presumed, in fact, that Knocker was doing the same and merely pointing out how easily our own recent disruption had been forgotten (he didn't add a comment on it so that was just my presumption).

So this is nothing to do with US lives not mattering but everything to do with how UK lives should matter equally.

On that note, my comment about people not doing what they have been told by the authorities seems to be generally true, a large proportion being from shovelling snow (despite warnings highlighting it) and, shockingly someone trying to help a driver being shot by him. Now that is a tragedy.

[ukpaul]

14 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:

i have detecting permission on over 2000 acres scattered around mostly eastern england.

You're a detectorist? You aren't Lance or Andy are you?

Beautiful programme, great acting!

[Paul]

12 minutes ago, ukpaul said:

 

So just for the sake of keeping it brief, you're saying that because someone commented on the disruption caused this weekend in the USA it shows that they have forgotten about recent disruption in the UK, and in doing so value US lives over UK ones?!

Do you actually believe that, or are you just a bit bored on a Sunday lunchtime and looking for a 'debate' to liven it up?

[markyo]

1 hour ago, Iceni said:

The farmers break up the ground (plough it) in September. And in 2010, badgers got so hungry they attacked cjickens because they could forage for worms. Orchards need deep cold in order to have acdormancy period, but seemed the apple crop was better than ever last year and that was relatively mild.

Birds are fine, voles are fine, they can still find insects.

The only problem is the muddy fields, but cattle are usually over-wintered under cover these days. Sheep don't care. 

Not sure were you get your info from,i grew up in the farming industry,trust me jan an feb are vital to have those frosts to break the ground,ploughing in september is purely for drainage purposes. All wildlife needs the cold in winter to enable a strong growth pattern come the spring,again can i say its far more complicated than just saying mild weather favours their life cycle. Really can't understand why people can't understand this.

[78/79]

Sometimes I think that myself ,and probably others don't look for snow so much, but search more for a change from the mind numbing blandness of our godforsaken climate , all year round.  even the Romans commented on it  1700 years ago , they thought that it was crap as well

Edited January 24, 2016 by 78/79

[cornish snow]

40 minutes ago, snowspotter said:

Anyone based in the South at least can forget any meaningful snow after Mid-February. So I think bearing in mind the current set up it is time to call this winter over for us Southerners.  Sure we may well get some snow but not anything long lasting on the ground. I am basing this on the fact that I am 52 years old and there has not been one really cold snowy spell down here after Mid February . In fact the only one early February is the 1991 epic. 

If you want a week long snow on the  ground you might need to head to high ground up North or maybe USA/Canada, The Alps or Scandinavia.

If your in Dublin , Cornwall or the Isle of WIght I'd give up !  

I always think Mid February is the cut off down here due to stronger sunshine etc. 

I dont see the point in a March Easterly that just provides days of snowfall and bugger all on the ground other than a bit on the downs

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks 

 

[ukpaul]

25 minutes ago, Paul said:

So just for the sake of keeping it brief, you're saying that because someone commented on the disruption caused this weekend in the USA it shows that they have forgotten about recent disruption in the UK, and in doing so value US lives over UK ones?!

Do you actually believe that, or are you just a bit bored on a Sunday lunchtime and looking for a 'debate' to liven it up?

They were ignored in the first place by the British media. Just relaying their own frustration where anything 'down south' as they put it gets widespread coverage. As they see it, even the USA gets better coverage. People read meaning into things depending on circumstance, if I had just remained down here in Surrey I would have thought nothing of the tweet, because I knew people affected then I did. There's a whole political debate about being in far flung and/or rural areas that I'm sure, being in Scotland you know something about. The same holds in English regions too. 

Not many will be interested because they weren't really affected but this is still the moans thread isn't it? 

Edited January 24, 2016 by ukpaul

[Gord]

I think what's getting me is that this is the 3rd winter in a row.

2013/14 was annoying but accepted that it does happen and we had just come off a run of good winters.

2014/15 I was starting to think that this is just bad luck now.

2015/16 is just taking the p***.

However, I am firmly in the camp of believing that late winter cold spells do deliver, even to the south. I've lived at a far lower latitude than the UK  (Ohio, same latitude as Barcelona) and have seen excellent cold spells there in late February and March. Even a quick fall of deep snow at the end of April once there!

So there is hope for change yet this season. I really hope there is because I don't want to enter next winter with no enthusiasm for the weather. Maybe a good summer thunderstorm will save me if that turns out to be the case!

[cornish snow]

43 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:

nature doesnt need this that or the other. things hibernate because its cold and theres no food - if its warm enough for food , they are in no danger.

frosts breaking up the soil?... i have no idea what you mean.... most arable farms scuff last years crops after harvest then direct drill, very little is ploughed in autumn to 'break down' (which wind wind, rain, sun, frost does anyway) and prior to drilling field are cultivated to break up the soil to a tilth regardless of how many frosts were had..... plus most farms dont let fields lie empty over winter, they cultuvate and drill them straight after ploughing. i have detecting permission on over 2000 acres scattered around mostly eastern england.

nature IS complicated, some things like a cold spell to thrive, others species thrive better in milder weather, theres no one rule that says nature likes or dislikes mild/cold, everything in nature is not governed by the same criteria.

Disagree. Warmer temp's in winter dosen't always equal more food.

That butterfly i saw last week was reacting to unusally high temperatures,but i doubt it found much food. Haven't seen much Buddleia in flower,lately.

[carinthian]

54 minutes ago, snowspotter said:

Anyone based in the South at least can forget any meaningful snow after Mid-February. So I think bearing in mind the current set up it is time to call this winter over for us Southerners.  Sure we may well get some snow but not anything long lasting on the ground. I am basing this on the fact that I am 52 years old and there has not been one really cold snowy spell down here after Mid February . In fact the only one early February is the 1991 epic. 

If you want a week long snow on the  ground you might need to head to high ground up North or maybe USA/Canada, The Alps or Scandinavia.

If your in Dublin , Cornwall or the Isle of WIght I'd give up !  

I always think Mid February is the cut off down here due to stronger sunshine etc. 

I dont see the point in a March Easterly that just provides days of snowfall and bugger all on the ground other than a bit on the downs

 

 

 

 

 

Hi, depressing really. I know March 2013 saw a bit of snow lying on the south coast and frost. However, nearly 36 months on and some places down south hardly registering a snowflake, never mind snow lying. Some 3 year kids born down there must view a snowflake as just a cut out paper shape. Horrible sequence of winters for much of lowland Britain and must be near damn some sort of climatological records for days of no snow lying in parts, especially near to south coast. Time to get out swamp land , or build a Noahs Ark.Cannot see it getting better.

C

[Iceni]

2 hours ago, cyclonic happiness said:

I can't believe are yet again watching America being buried by snow, and yet we struggle to get an inch.  

3 years it'll be soon, 3 years without snow staying on the ground for more than 24 hours. Fair enough last week we had an inch, but it was slushy and was melting even as it fell.

I really do hope the winter will get its finger out, according to the Met office, we should have between 5-10 days of lying snow per year!

Very simple. They have a continental climate, we don't. Cold dry air meets warm moist Gulf air and bingo.

We all have to get real. We live on the edge of an ocean which is like a radiator retaining heat. Unless it's blocked by GL/Scandi high pressure system, and the w-e jet stream is diverted south, we'll get warm moist air, winter or summer.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Iceni

[Mapantz]

http://i.imgur.com/xDflKnp.gifv

[Iceni]

34 minutes ago, markyo said:

Not sure were you get your info from,i grew up in the farming industry,trust me jan an feb are vital to have those frosts to break the ground,ploughing in september is purely for drainage purposes. All wildlife needs the cold in winter to enable a strong growth pattern come the spring,again can i say its far more complicated than just saying mild weather favours their life cycle. Really can't understand why people can't understand this.

He probably gets it from walking around or looking out of the window. Not sure where you live, but in EA, apart from the Fens where most British veg is grown and Greens want 'left to Nature' I.e. Flooded again,  the soil is too heavy for summer seasonal crops. It's boukder clay and the short Spring/summer growing season means rape, wheat, beans etc. have to be sown and germinated the previous Autumn then left to overwinter. Otherwise the soil's too cold and doesn't warm up in time.

Your frost breaking down soil might be true for an allotment, but the farmers have massive tractors and kit to do all the work which amateurs rely on - like I should break up my raised beds and leave for the frosts over winter to save work, but I don't have a £100k John Deere plough. Farmers do.

[Peter H]

1 hour ago, sundog said:

Try over 5 years without snow staying on the ground for more then 24hrs. I havent seen even an inch of snow since dec 2010 a number of dusting etc buts thats about it. Christ and i thought the 90s and 00s were bad.

 

Yep. same at this end.

We've had the odd wee skiff but that's been about it. With this winter being another largely snowless one, that's going to be 6 years without a decent fall of snow.

That's really a very long time.

I always think Mid February is the cut off down here due to stronger sunshine etc.

Yes, I agree, unless we get a really cold easterly. Late February really is when spring kicks in.

Mind you, we had a couple of weeks of really cold weather in mid February 1995.

 

[stodge]

Of course, there's plenty of time for snow even in the south. Snow in March is far from unusual and of course 2013 was one of the best ever in that regard and the last time we had an early Easter we had snow on Easter Sunday (2008 ?) even in lowland East London.

Even April snow, though rare, isn't unheard of in the south. The infamous 1997-98 winter led to a very cold April 1998 so there's plenty of reason to expect colder and more wintry conditions into late February and March.

I know everyone wants feet of lying snow, storm force easterlies and minus 20 uppers for two months but realistically that probably hasn't happened since the LIA. I'm still optimistic we will get some more winter-like conditions later next month and especially into March which will of course annoy everyone who wants spring. The variable that is the PV and the movements thereof may leave us on the wrong side of the tracks though I do think the models default to a position of transferring energy back across to Greenland/Northern Canada even if there is an initial movement.

[Paul]

56 minutes ago, ukpaul said:

They were ignored in the first place by the British media. Just relaying their own frustration where anything 'down south' as they put it gets widespread coverage. As they see it, even the USA gets better coverage. People read meaning into things depending on circumstance, if I had just remained down here in Surrey I would have thought nothing of the tweet, because I knew people affected then I did. There's a whole political debate about being in far flung and/or rural areas that I'm sure, being in Scotland you know something about. The same holds in English regions too. 

Not many will be interested because they weren't really affected but this is still the moans thread isn't it? 

The floods in the UK got huge coverage, maybe not straight away but there's a difference between a bit of the usual winter type flooding (which is where it started), and where it ended up. 

This thing about the 'media' not covering things (and by media I assume you mean news websites,  newspapers  and national tv news etc), they cover what they think will be relevant to people and popular. So yes, they're not going to cover small scale flooding in the UK, but will cover larger scale flooding. Same as they won't cover the majority of snow storms they get in the USA, but will cover potentially significant ones. 

Personally I don't see the issue, it's not like when it came to the flooding those affected were waiting on the tv news to give them info or advice - that was well covered by the EA, weather forecasts and so on. 

But getting back to the original point, I still don't understand why someone who is a weather forecaster should be criticised for commenting on a twitter feed about a weather event occurring in the USA. Even if I shared your opinion about the 'media' not covering the floods quickly enough, I still wouldn't be jumping up and down because someone, 1 month later dared to tweet about something else!

[ukpaul]

1 minute ago, Paul said:

But getting back to the original point, I still don't understand why someone who is a weather forecaster should be criticised for commenting on a twitter feed about a weather event occurring in the USA. Even if I shared your opinion about the 'media' not covering the floods quickly enough, I still wouldn't be jumping up and down because someone, 1 month later dared to tweet about something else!

It really was the first thing I thought of and checking Ian's twitter feed just now (which I hadn't done) someone else had also pulled him up on the same issue and, as such, he'd modified his original point to say he was just referring to disruptive snow....  

A month later then people are still coping with flood damage and, in extreme cases, loss of home or livelihood. A month isn't long a time, even in our age of 24 hour news. For me, in my comfy Surrey home it's easy to move on but thousands don't have that luxury,

[Paul]

15 minutes ago, ukpaul said:

It really was the first thing I thought of and checking Ian's twitter feed just now (which I hadn't done) someone else had also pulled him up on the same issue and, as such, he'd modified his original point to say he was just referring to disruptive snow....  

A month later then people are still coping with flood damage and, in extreme cases, loss of home or livelihood. A month isn't long a time, even in our age of 24 hour news. For me, in my comfy Surrey home it's easy to move on but thousands don't have that luxury,

But like everything, life does move on. That doesn't mean everyone has forgotten about those who are still struggling, but other events occur, and there's nothing wrong with commenting on them.

I was in Pershore during the 2007 floods, fortunately my home wasn't directly affected, but I knew people who were, and yes of course once the news cameras have gone, there are months and months of ongoing disruption to people's lives. But no-one was getting up in arms that weather forecasters/news outlets were covering other events without mentioning the recent floods everytime to 'prove' they hadn't been forgotten, not least because they had more important things to worry about rather than trivial stuff like that. 

 

[carinthian]

Just a crazy winter this afternoon in Europe. +24c in Northern Spain now, a whole 50C plus difference to parts of Lapland.

 C

[ukpaul]

4 minutes ago, Paul said:

But like everything, life does move on. That doesn't mean everyone has forgotten about those who are still struggling, but other events occur, and there's nothing wrong with commenting on them.

I was in Pershore during the 2007 floods, fortunately my home wasn't directly affected, but I knew people who were, and yes of course once the news cameras have gone, there are months and months of ongoing disruption to people's lives. But no-one was getting up in arms that weather forecasters/news outlets were covering other events without mentioning the recent floods everytime to 'prove' they hadn't been forgotten,  they had more important things to think about rather than trivial non-issues like that. 

 

Give it a few months, get into spring and things will move on. Anyway, you expect Northerners not to bear a grudge?

EDIT: I should make it clear that I am a Northerner, just in case, and I'm moving back up there as of Easter (Pennines though, not Lancs/Cumbria)!

Edited January 24, 2016 by ukpaul