Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

mushymanrob

ITS SUMMER!

Recommended Posts

.... according to Bede !

 


http://aclerkofoxford.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/summer-sun-brightest-anglo-saxon-summer.html


in many ways this makes perfect sense, using sunlight as the defining element. i have to say that i do agree with it, ive often said that its becoming autumnal after the first week in august... seems the anglo-saxon in me was coming through! in fact people argued against me calling most of august 'like autumn'... well im happy with this as it proves that for many years in the past, i was actually on to something! :p

winter starts on november 7th?... yep why not? thats around the date when most deciduous trees have shed their leaves and by then are largely bare.

spring on feb 7th?... why not? so many spring plants are poking through, snowdrops are out by then and even though feb is often the coldest month, things are 'springing to life'.

so summer starting on may 9th, makes perfect sense going off sunlight, and makes even more sense to 'midsummers day' being june 24th, just 3 days after the astronomical date for summer starting (which i dont agree with).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't in all good conscience call August 'autumn' - it's probably our best chance of getting any decent heat all year. On my birthday, 22 August, the average high in Leeds is 21C - I calculated that my self. The average high in the last week of May is 'only' 18C. My hottest birthday was 31C in 1995. No way can I expect to experience weather like that in May and in June it's pretty rare. Heck, for a lot of places, August is the warmest month of the year - calling the warmest month of the year 'autumn' and often the coldest month of the year 'spring' will just confuse people because people are more perceptive to changes in weather rather than plantlife and length of day.

 

May has advantage with longer daylight but this month kind of proves that May is far from being summer. A few days not even exceeding 10C. It's just too prone to cool weather as well as frost and even snow in a few highland locations. Needless to say, I am looking forward to August with the hope that it will be as nice as August 2013 (and  hopefully much better than 2014). August 2003 would be great, or August 2004 (warm but thundery), or August 2002 - or just about any August between 1989 and 2005.

 

So I think your attempts to get August reclassified as an autumn month will not work because most people base seasons on weather and not day length. If anything it makes more sense to call the first week of March winter and first week of September summer due to seasonal lag.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't in all good conscience call August 'autumn' - it's probably our best chance of getting any decent heat all year. On my birthday, 22 August, the average high in Leeds is 21C - I calculated that my self. The average high in the last week of May is 'only' 18C. My hottest birthday was 31C in 1995. No way can I expect to experience weather like that in May and in June it's pretty rare. Heck, for a lot of places, August is the warmest month of the year - calling the warmest month of the year 'autumn' and often the coldest month of the year 'spring' will just confuse people because people are more perceptive to changes in weather rather than plantlife and length of day.

 

May has advantage with longer daylight but this month kind of proves that May is far from being summer. A few days not even exceeding 10C. It's just too prone to cool weather as well as frost and even snow in a few highland locations. Needless to say, I am looking forward to August with the hope that it will be as nice as August 2013 (and  hopefully much better than 2014). August 2003 would be great, or August 2004 (warm but thundery), or August 2002 - or just about any August between 1989 and 2005.

 

So I think your attempts to get August reclassified as an autumn month will not work because most people base seasons on weather and not day length. If anything it makes more sense to call the first week of March winter and first week of September summer due to seasonal lag.

 

i dont disagree with your points, and it all depends upon what you use as the yardstick to determine what defines the seasons.

the trouble with using temperature, is that its totally inconsistent, unlike daylength. so the anglo saxons using a constant makes most sense doesnt it? lol...

i used to take my hold the first week in august. when i came back, it was like summer was over. not weatherwise, not temp wise, but the growth and vigour had gone out of plants. by september some early shedding trees are on the turn.

i know august (after the 7th) wont be reclassified as autumn, but i would suggest that nature and daylength (as used by the anglo-saxons) would indicate why their seasonal definition is different to ours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see it as Extended summer or Extended winter,if it happens to snow or a hard frost in November or early April it is winter to me the same as a hot April or October  can be as good as any summers days,its Summer to me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well September is alot warmer than May, if you want to go on day length you're right but on 2M temps and humidity no May isn't summer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When was the last time Autumn started on Aug 7th, it doesn't even start on Sept 7th nowadays.  :rofl:

 

Thats a massive flaw in your argument and something you conveniently omitted from your OP. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When was the last time Autumn started on Aug 7th, it doesn't even start on Sept 7th nowadays.  :rofl:

 

Thats a massive flaw in your argument and something you conveniently omitted from your OP. :D

The last time was probably about a thousand years ago! When the anglo saxon era ended.

You conveniently overlook the bit about using daylength, which is a constant. The point about this is that a different system was employed by people in the past to determine when their seasons started. Using daylength makes alot of sense. And i think our idea of what autumn should be like has also changed.

Isnt autumn a time for harvesting fruits and crops? Most fruits and all crops are finished by our current astronomical date, and sept 1st is half way through..

Anyway, its not an argument, it was an interesting article i came across and thought it would be of interest here, the way different things were used in the past to determine their seasons. Personally, i fully understand it and agree with it. I dont expect the closed minded to find it of interest though! :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, I find it interesting - and I understand the rationale behind it. I just don't agree with it. I'm still very much in summer mode even in early September.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, I find it interesting - and I understand the rationale behind it. I just don't agree with it. I'm still very much in summer mode even in early September.

Fair play sir.

We differ there though as im not in summer mode, which is probably why i find myself drawn to the saxon version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When was the last time Autumn started on Aug 7th, it doesn't even start on Sept 7th nowadays.  :rofl:

 

Thats a massive flaw in your argument and something you conveniently omitted from your OP. :D

 

I could go with all of it apart from this August 7th, maybe 21st feb, 21st May, 21st aug ,21st nov ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could go with all of it apart from this August 7th, maybe 21st feb, 21st May, 21st aug ,21st nov ?

I thought Autumn was all bar two weeks in June in this country?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find myself drawn to those dates too.. 

I certainly find June 21st-Sept 21st as 'summer' to be wrong as that only accounts for the warmest 3 month period totally ignoring the light situation. Same goes for winter - no way December 15th feels like anything other than winter despite it being milder than early March (sometimes).

 

My views on this have skewed a little since moving to Berlin...

November certainly feels like winter - it's dark, endlessly gloomy & Christmas is coming. Winters here are colder & gloomier than the UK but we make a far faster recovery in spring. It's the core Nov-Jan period that feels most like winter as sunshine is rare under endless low cloud and temps hover around -1c to 4c the whole time. The city is pretty glum in this period bar the bit round xmas as entertainment choices are limited to smoky bars & staying at home drinking cheap beer...

Feb, especially later in the month feels springlike as the low cloud lifts and birds start singing again. Thoughts turn to the coming season in the garden too.

Things rapidly warm & turn very sunny into spring with far fewer of the cold damp days like back home (although they do happen). Coldest max this month was 14c so you know it isn't yet true summer but for large parts of the time it's as good as.

Summer feels longer here and is far more reliable - the city is happy and there are endless outdoor events, parties & things to do. But even so - the light changes in late August so although its still warm (and still warm into Sept) you can feel the vice beginning to tighten as the long evenings start to fade..

 

Overall probably the meteorological definitions are a good system although maybe i'd extend winter back to mid Nov and summer back to mid May.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it would be interesting to discover if, in anglo saxon times, the weather was similar all year round to what we have now, or whether seasons have shifted. the climate might have been more continental, i dunno...

a do agree that the current astronomical difinitions though are pretty unrealistic (bottys post), and that perhaps shifting them earlier by a month (as stewfox suggests above) would be more reprisentitive taking into account all the factors that make up the seasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find myself drawn to those dates too.. 

I certainly find June 21st-Sept 21st as 'summer' to be wrong as that only accounts for the warmest 3 month period totally ignoring the light situation. Same goes for winter - no way December 15th feels like anything other than winter despite it being milder than early March (sometimes).

 

My views on this have skewed a little since moving to Berlin...

November certainly feels like winter - it's dark, endlessly gloomy & Christmas is coming. Winters here are colder & gloomier than the UK but we make a far faster recovery in spring. It's the core Nov-Jan period that feels most like winter as sunshine is rare under endless low cloud and temps hover around -1c to 4c the whole time. The city is pretty glum in this period bar the bit round xmas as entertainment choices are limited to smoky bars & staying at home drinking cheap beer...

Feb, especially later in the month feels springlike as the low cloud lifts and birds start singing again. Thoughts turn to the coming season in the garden too.

Things rapidly warm & turn very sunny into spring with far fewer of the cold damp days like back home (although they do happen). Coldest max this month was 14c so you know it isn't yet true summer but for large parts of the time it's as good as.

Summer feels longer here and is far more reliable - the city is happy and there are endless outdoor events, parties & things to do. But even so - the light changes in late August so although its still warm (and still warm into Sept) you can feel the vice beginning to tighten as the long evenings start to fade..

 

Overall probably the meteorological definitions are a good system although maybe i'd extend winter back to mid Nov and summer back to mid May.

 

That whole post made me horribly jealous:(

 

Looks like summer is cancelled this year for the UK:p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That whole post made me horribly jealous:(

 

Looks like summer is cancelled this year for the UK:p

 

youre not seriously writing off summer just yet?... lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

youre not seriously writing off summer just yet?... lol

 

Not yet haha, give it a few more weeks and I may be tempted:p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i might use my lilies to determine summer... which will start when the first lily blooms, and finishes when the last bloom finishes !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i might use my lilies to determine summer... which will start when the first lily blooms, and finishes when the last bloom finishes !

 

Mine have been out a few days mushy. Then summer comes early in knockerland. Battling the dreaded willow.

post-12275-0-83055400-1432541118_thumb.j

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think we really need to define the seasons to set dates, unless you are keeping records and even then it's only for convenience; that's why we use the Meteorological definition.

In my opinion it's a bit moot arguing that March 1st is "Spring" when it's 2C at midday with snow flurries blowing about in a stiff wind, yet the day before was "winter" with pretty much identical conditions.

The seasons naturally expand and contract year by year, at least in terms of temperature and conditions.

Ultimately, for the average man/woman in the street the seasons are what they think they are, there's no real need for defined boundaries in my opinion.

Having said that, I do see the logic and merit in using a system that is constant. If you want to use such a system as a yardstick then fair enough, I or nobody else is going to stop you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...