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OCTOBER PATTERN INDEX (OPI) MONITORING WINTER SEASON 2014-2015


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Posted
  • Location: Weymouth, Dorset
  • Location: Weymouth, Dorset

    no model currently covering itself in glory with its arctic modelling post day 6 at the moment

    When it comes to anomalous heights, do they ever get it right around 80N-90N at that range though?

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    As ever, a great summary of how things stand from Ed and I think for the last 19, or pretty much 20 days now we have all been waiting for this point in the month and beyond. It's been rather 'fun' wat

    The discussion of the OPI index trend is understandably causing a lot of interest and (cautious) excitement amongst members after Riccardo's very interesting opening post that started this thread. The

    The monitoring page of the “October pattern index†(OPI) is presented. The OPI index  represents a analytic synthesis of the October hemispheric pattern at 500 hPa, and shows from  previous studi

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    Posted
  • Location: Drayton, Portsmouth
  • Location: Drayton, Portsmouth

    Thanks for the comments - Fair points Nouska, of course we're all still a little in the dark over what exactly goes into the OPI, from reading the thread I'm guessing the shape of the PV is important but obviously there's more to it. I would still argue that the chart I posted for 29/10/2014 is by the far the most organised PV of the 5 charts - almost a diamond shape - none of the others are anything like a shape. I do indeed hope that the OPI creators are right and my post is wrong! but like others, it is well worth anticipating where it could go wrong - that's the heart of good research, isn't it? :)

    edit: to add balance to my original post - we won't of course know what the PV will look like on 31 October for many days yet - this month, there's already been more than one model turn around on the PV between the T192 and T120 stages - very possible it could yet happen again, and it wouldn't be without a trend.

    Edited by rjbw
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    Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: cold
  • Location: Sunderland

    According to the terminology used in explaining the OPI; the 0z coming up tomorrow morning will be the first run to factor in all of October (1-21 October actual, 22-31 forecast). I think from there, we can reach a more reliable and tight spread of solutions. If it's -2.13 at the end of the month, virtual pints on me.

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    Posted
  • Location: Manchester Deansgate.
  • Weather Preferences: Heavy disruptive snowfall.
  • Location: Manchester Deansgate.

    Thanks for the comments - Fair points Nouska, of course we're all still a little in the dark over what exactly goes into the OPI, from reading the thread I'm guessing the shape of the PV is important but obviously there's more to it. I would still argue that the chart I posted for 29/10/2014 is by the far the most organised PV of the 5 charts - almost a diamond shape - none of the others are anything like a shape. I do indeed hope that the OPI creators are right and my post is wrong! but like others, it is well worth anticipating where it could go wrong - that's the heart of good research, isn't it? :)

     

    You have a point but there have been a heck of a lot of very good winters / winters which included brutal cold spells that had a very flat zonal November, im sure people will correct me but off hand I cant remember any years where we had a very dry blocked November FROM THE VERY START that went on to be corking winters apart from 95/96, which was blocked most of the way through.

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    Posted
  • Location: Surrey and SW France.
  • Location: Surrey and SW France.

    Thanks for the comments - Fair points Nouska, of course we're all still a little in the dark over what exactly goes into the OPI, from reading the thread I'm guessing the shape of the PV is important but obviously there's more to it. I would still argue that the chart I posted for 29/10/2014 is by the far the most organised PV of the 5 charts - almost a diamond shape - none of the others are anything like a shape. I do indeed hope that the OPI creators are right and my post is wrong! but like others, it is well worth anticipating where it could go wrong - that's the heart of good research, isn't it? :)

     

    Hi RBJ - at first glance your ECM T+192 chart doesn't look so good but if you look at the placement of anomalies, you can see that the lobes of low heights are still well scattered with the core still positive.

     

    VyQ0ZJh.png

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    Posted
  • Location: Penrith Cumbria
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy winters and warm sunny summers
  • Location: Penrith Cumbria

    In hindsight all the signs were there in October 2009 for a cold winter to follow yet that same month the MetO issued it's now famous mild winter 2009/10 prediction. After forecasting a BBQ summer in 2009 the winter forecast was there last seasonal forecast.

    Good decision chaps.

    I am really excited about the OPI as I always suspected that the seeds of winter were sown in October.

    Andy

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    Posted
  • Location: Surrey and SW France.
  • Location: Surrey and SW France.

    I see we have team OPI with us - a very warm welcome and please do join the discussion.

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    Posted
  • Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire
  • Weather Preferences: Anything except blazing hot summers!
  • Location: Wakefield, West Yorkshire

    You have a point but there have been a heck of a lot of very good winters / winters which included brutal cold spells that had a very flat zonal November, im sure people will correct me but off hand I cant remember any years where we had a very dry blocked November FROM THE VERY START that went on to be corking winters apart from 95/96, which was blocked most of the way through.

    excellent point. If we get a "good" negative OPI then we might not see fruition until Dec or Jan.

    If we get a mild/zonal Nov then so be it - it's not even winter at that stage.

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    Posted
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)
  • Weather Preferences: cold and snowy in winter, a good mix of weather the rest of the time
  • Location: Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire (this lockdown) Freuchie, Fife (normally)

    Indeed, there's no clear link between a very negative OPI to a cold November - of the 10 lowest OPIs the average November temperature was 7C, 7 were above the 61-90 average, with November 2009 being the third mildest ever at 8.7C (a horrible month with a very active Atlantic and severe flooding) and the coldest November of the 10 was shared between Novembers 1986 and 2010 at 5.2C.

    I think there's a decent chance we'll see some decent cold at some point during November, certainly if the stratosphere continues its promising start, but either way it doesn't mean that much for our chances of seeing a colder than average winter.

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    Posted
  • Location: Kirkburton, Huddersfield - 162.5mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Winter synoptics.Hot summers.
  • Location: Kirkburton, Huddersfield - 162.5mtrs asl

    If it was 2.19 I'd be crying right now

    This time last year if it had been 2.19 hardly any of us would have cared.Bit different this year though.-2.19 looks around the mark.

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    Posted
  • Location: Manchester
  • Location: Manchester

    No update based on the 0z GFS which is probably a good thing as it wasn't a good run for blocking in the Arctic. The ECM is much better overall and it tries to raise the pressure over Greenland. The UKMO is the worst model for heights once again.

     

    Karyo

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    Posted
  • Location: W. Northants
  • Location: W. Northants

    Given we're under the final ten day's of October and every day this month has been negative, surely the only question now is HOW negative will be the OPI be this October?

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    Posted
  • Location: New Ash green 150M / 500 FT
  • Location: New Ash green 150M / 500 FT

    Hi Karyo -

     

    The artic is but a small part of the whole measurement for the day, the overall artic profile for the next days is negative ( V the norm ) however not quite as negative as the start of the month.

     

    Offsetting this though is the over Pressure anomalies around 60N which are more stacked towards a negative OPI-

     

    Supporting this will 100% be the angle of the vortex as its still very distorted....

     

    All in all- its still looking pretty good.

     

    s

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    Posted
  • Location: Exile from Argyll
  • Location: Exile from Argyll

    Is there a list anywhere for the top ten most negative OPI years?

     

    BFTV made a list of figures for each year from the graph - page 4 of this thread.

     

    https://forum.netweather.tv/topic/81494-october-pattern-index-opi-monitoring-winter-season-2014-2015/page-4#entry3051011

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    Posted
  • Location: Batley, West Yorkshire
  • Weather Preferences: Heat and Snow
  • Location: Batley, West Yorkshire

    If we get an OPI lower than -2 we are in a great position, only winter 2009/10 will have had an OPI lower from 1976.

    Edited by Barry95
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    Posted
  • Location: New Ash green 150M / 500 FT
  • Location: New Ash green 150M / 500 FT

    I would think after looking at the 06z that the OPI index forecast today will drop to around -2.2 to -2.4 ~ as there is more noticeable pressure + anomalies along 60N.

     

    S

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    Posted
  • Location: Chandlers Ford, south of Winchester.
  • Location: Chandlers Ford, south of Winchester.

    A month is a long time in terms of weather. It looks like the first half of the month will potentially be more negative than the second half. Is there any correlation for that to deliver a colder winter with a weaker/positioned vortex or would it be better to trend positive and finish the month more negative where the vortex isn't developing?

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    Posted
  • Location: leicester
  • Location: leicester
    I would think after looking at the 06z that the OPI index forecast today will drop to around -2.2 to -2.4 ~ as there is more noticeable pressure + anomalies along 60N.

     

    S[/quote 06z has stronger heights once again!!

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    I would think after looking at the 06z that the OPI index forecast today will drop to around -2.2 to -2.4 ~ as there is more noticeable pressure + anomalies along 60N.

     

     

    Steve, is there a particular area along/North of 60N that you are drawn to?. Other than than anomalies, where are you looking to see the vortex?

     

    Thanks

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    Posted
  • Location: New Ash green 150M / 500 FT
  • Location: New Ash green 150M / 500 FT

    Well we don't have 100% clarity of how the angle of the vortex is measured, other than the alignment to the imaginary like from Ocean to Ocean-

     

    Heres the loading pattern.

     

    post-1235-0-62887400-1413978103_thumb.gi

     

    Its clear that for OPI years you have a split vortex which correlates with an angle perpendicular to the imaginary line-

     

    Day 6 on the GEM for example shows

     

    http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2014102200/gemnh-0-126.png?00

     

    Good neg anomaly over Eurasia, &  fairly good pos over the northern parts of Siberia with a weak pos ringing its way around to Alaska ( remember shallow low heights are a positive height anomaly)

     

    As for the vortex alignment to the Norm its almost inverse to the average with a strong easterly flow all way across Siberia towards western Russia & over Greenland a North south flow-

    So I image todays Angle will be overall negative across the 10 days, but in the near terms ( days 1-3) a little less negative with the burst of Westerlies....

     

    S

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    Posted
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL
  • Location: Carryduff, County Down 420ft ASL

    Cheers Steve,

     

    So a split vortex with portions in S,Greenland, Siberia and around S Alaska with above average heights over the pole.

     

    Thanks MS

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    Posted
  • Location: Redhill, Surrey
  • Weather Preferences: Southerly tracking LPs, heavy snow. Also 25c and calm
  • Location: Redhill, Surrey

    Interesting seeing the mood ups and downs in here and also the re-assuring inputs from others.  Well closing in and I'm pleased to see we are in the 'pretty likely' to be -ve category and another supporting chance factor of HLB to develop/occur during DJF.   I'm very much looking forward to the analysis off the back of this month, should be an interesting read.

     

     

    BFTP

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