Do You Find Dark Mornings Depressing?

[Schnee]

If we were in BST all year then all the kids would be going to school in darkness, at the coldest point of the day. In December it wouldn't be light till around 9.30am.

In Summer, GMT would mean we'd see darkness at 8.30-9pm. You'd loose the light evening.

[Crepuscular Ray]

The main argument from the GLA members who've brought this old chestnut to the fore again today is that we'd get more tourism/business if we were synchronised with Paris, etc. What planet are they on? Do they really think the French are so stupid that they can't cope with an hour's time difference? Plus, keeping BST rather than GMT would actually mean that we were more out of synch with the US, with whom we have far more trade, which would be counter-productive.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Edited October 29, 2010 by crepuscular ray

[Nick L]

I like dark evenings, not a fan of dark mornings though.

[Cheese Rice]

I'm impartial to both, I would prefer it to be light in the morning but I'm always too busy to care, in other words I'm always late so darkness is last thing on my mind. Once I get up I'm running to to the light switch or into the desk, light switch preferably. Although the scariness of walking into a pitch black dining room is quite scary So usually I leave the rest of the house when its dark in the morning.

[Weather-history]

If it's such an issue for Scotland why shouldn't they make their own changes and leave the rest of GB out of it? Let them have their own time zone!

Everytime we have this debate this suggestion comes out and everytime I point out just how ill thought out it is.

1) Time zones are based on lines of longitude not latitude as this would be.

2) No country as small as the UK would have such a time zone. Other countries survive why can't we?

3) Sunrise and sunset times do not recognise borders, the sun doesn't suddenly rise an hour later at the English/Scottish border, its depends on latitude. So what about people of the far north of England? Cumbria and Northumberland?

I think it is a joke that we have this silly debate everytime we change the clocks, no other country in the world has this kind of debate. Has no one heard of adability?

And in any case, keeping the clocks an hour forward all year isn't going to be much better. Instead of the sun setting at around 4pm, it will set around 5pm. To me if there is going have any benefit then the sun should be setting after 6pm.

And as regards to the GMT+2 and GMT+1 debate, if we were to do that, then for Manchester, for over a third of the year, the sun won't be rising until after 8am! No thanks!

Edited October 30, 2010 by Mr_Data

[Essan]

The main argument from the GLA members who've brought this old chestnut to the fore again today is that we'd get more tourism/business if we were synchronised with Paris, etc. What planet are they on? Do they really think the French are so stupid that they can't cope with an hour's time difference? Plus, keeping BST rather than GMT would actually mean that we were more out of synch with the US, with whom we have far more trade, which would be counter-productive.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Exactly.

Besides, it gets darker earlier in Spain in summer than it does in England but I do see their tourism suffer as a result. And as for the argument that Scottish tourism - where it's aready light til 11pm in summer - would benefit ....

They also forget that the US, Canada and Australia function perfectly well on different time zones. Still, maybe that's the answer? London goes on to Berlin time and the rest of Britain remains on London time?

[Essan]

Now this is really bizarre. In a poll conducted in Scotland:

....one-third of respondents said it would be harder to get their children to school on Monday.

Richard Cotton, head of sales for Npower hometeam, said: "Our research found that the greatest annoyances about the clocks going back for people in Scotland are leaving the house while it's still dark (43%), having to have the central heating on (47%), and feeling a general lack of enthusiasm for the day (40%)."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11655662

Think about it. Putting the clocks back means it's lighter in the mornings

Not sure whether it was badly worded, but I actually interpret this survey as supporting the idea of not putting the clocks forward in the Spring!

[Thundery wintry showers]

Personally I find the problem with UK daylight to be too large a "swing"- I would prefer a range from 10 hours in midwinter (8am-6pm) to just over 14 in midsummer (7am-9pm, accounting for BST). But that's something that we can't change, and certainly not by messing around with GMT and BST- it would require changes to the way the Earth orbits around the Sun!

But perhaps the bigger problem is the "windowless offices" syndrome. If most people worked in buildings with decent lighting from outdoors then perhaps sunlight deprivation in winter wouldn't be as big an issue, for at least you'd get some exposure to daylight then.

[damianslaw]

How I feel about the dark mornings in Winter is very much affected by my state of mind at the time. On days when I don't want to go to work, this feeling combined with a dark morning makes things feel much worse. Incidentally I have struggled this past week to wake up due to the low light levels and it will be nice to at least see some light again between 7 and 8am however short lived.

I don't believe we should be tampering with the clocks. For the far north of England, N Ireland and Scotland which incidentally generally see darker days in winter due to cloudier wetter conditions not putting the clocks back would make many a day between late November to late January dark until 9-9.30am long after many have made there journeys to school and work and on cloudy wet days even later. We would still loose light at 4.30pm so there would be no benefit whatsoever. Indeed darker mornings would prolong the length of any fog and frost and make the roads even more dangerous combined with glare from low light at dusk on return journeys a recipe for more accidents...

I do like the dark evenings during the run up to christmas but quickly tire of them as we head into January mind..

[LadyPakal]

What I find the most depressing about this whole subject is the general ignorance of the populace about it.

For example, reading the Sky comments after their article on this annual debate - rather a lot of them seem to be under the impression that BST is the normal time and that we put the clocks back in the winter for the farmers.... also that somehow we will get more hours of daylight if the clocks didn't go back - it's a miracle!

Edited October 30, 2010 by LadyPakal

[BARRY]

Stick to what we do best, I don't want to start work at 9'oclock, I start at 8 always have done always will do

[Kentish Kiwi]

Personally I find the problem with UK daylight to be too large a "swing"- I would prefer a range from 10 hours in midwinter (8am-6pm) to just over 14 in midsummer (7am-9pm, accounting for BST). But that's something that we can't change, and certainly not by messing around with GMT and BST- it would require changes to the way the Earth orbits around the Sun!

Thats pretty much the timings that Northern New Zealand (Auckland northwards) experiences through the seasons and it was something I found much more pleasant than the daylight hours over here during the winter, but that's simply down to its latitude compared to the UK (<37 degrees latitude). Although it is nice having the long, light summer evenings here, I find winter hours here far to short and depressing especially as this is coupled with the extremely low and weak sun. It also seems as though alot of daylight hours in the summer are 'wasted' in the UK, with such early mornings and late evenings, though I can understand how this appeals to those early morning people out there.

During the winter in Auckland (and areas further north) you could actually feel the suns warmth on a sunny, calm day making it feel quite pleasant, particularly when temperatures could reach the mid-teens under such conditions and the UV was so that you could still get slightly tanned/burnt if exposed for a good few hours, for example if you went fishing. Similar in many ways to mid-late March in the UK actually when thinking about it. Anyway, it goes a way to make the winter months far more bearable in my opinion.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Kentish Kiwi

[Essan]

What I find the most depressing about this whole subject is the general ignorance of the populace about it.

For example, reading the Sky comments after their article on this annual debate - rather a lot of them seem to be under the impression that BST is the normal time and that we put the clocks back in the winter for the farmers.... also that somehow we will get more hours of daylight if the clocks didn't go back - it's a miracle!

I get that impression too

On the one had folk are ignorant, on the other they're easily manipulated

[swipe]

Now this is really bizarre. In a poll conducted in Scotland:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11655662

Think about it. Putting the clocks back means it's lighter in the mornings

Not sure whether it was badly worded, but I actually interpret this survey as supporting the idea of not putting the clocks forward in the Spring!

Yep, the responses in that article make no sense at all. Surely the author of the article picked up on this while writing the piece?

Edited October 31, 2010 by swipe

[Bottesford]

The more light the better for me - I often find I want day lengths to keep on growing on June 21st. I visited Iceland on the summer solstice a few years ago - fantastic it was for exploring as you never worried about getting lost in the dark!

I find I can get up more easily and be more alert on a bright and warm day often waking long before my alarm ready to go. However on a dull/dark, freezing cold November morning it can be very hard to feel any enthusiasm to even open my eyes never mind head to the office!

As for the time zone debate... Well personally I'd prefer GMT+1 in winter and GMT+2 in summer but that is purely what works for me and recognise it isn't best for everyone.

I think we should stop moving the clocks and stick to one time. Sensibly this should be GMT+1 since we already do it for a large part of the year anyway. GMT would be a very poor choice in summer as vast amount of daylight is wasted in the mornings before a 9-5 worker is up. Yes you *could* get up earlier but who wants to get up knowing they have work hanging over them 2 hours later? Most of us prefer relaxing at the end of the day!

Ideally I think working hours, rush hour times, tv schedules, pub opening times and so on should adjust to the season. 9-5 is silly in high summer (esp if we stuck to GMT!) - it should be 7-3 really. Then perhaps midday/noon/12 would actually feel like the middle of the day a bit more. As it stands for me 3pm is closer to the mid way point between getting up and bedtime!

[laserguy]

However on a dull/dark, freezing cold November morning it can be very hard to feel any enthusiasm to even open my eyes never mind head to the office!

Incredible,the difference between folk! On sunny mornings all I wanna do is get under the blankets and shut out the already heavily subdued light as it filters through my black curtains! Love getting up early when there's no glimmer of the day dawning - time to go back in and make sure all the curtains are firmly shut as the light encroaches. Is there any estate agents around who specialise in des res caves:lol: ?

[swipe]

Incredible,the difference between folk! On sunny mornings all I wanna do is get under the blankets and shut out the already heavily subdued light as it filters through my black curtains! Love getting up early when there's no glimmer of the day dawning - time to go back in and make sure all the curtains are firmly shut as the light encroaches. Is there any estate agents around who specialise in des res caves:lol: ?

You need to buy some of those shutters they use on the continent for your bedroom. When those are shut it's like being at the bottom of a Chilean mine shaft

[Bottesford]

Well it begins - 4 long months of it being dark before I leave work.

The usual nasties like headache/tiredness just after the sun drops kicked in and then out into the very heavy rush hour traffic teeming with unlit cyclists & pedestrians (many of which don't understand the difference between cycle lanes & pedestrian lanes) as well as those blinding almost blue headlamps that so many cars are now fitted with. That horrible feeling of unsafeness kicks in pretty fast!

It'd be ok if streets were quiet (I mean summer darkness cycling is no problem at all since there's so few people around by then) but the return of schools has exactly timed in with the clock move so it's dreadful tonight.

And then home to fumble around looking for keys under the dim glow of our (gas powered so yes very dim) street lamp and drag the bins in to the dark courtyard - and oh just trod in some mud I couldn't see and in the house it goes!

To the point.... I really really really wish we'd leave the clocks on BST - it'd give me perhaps 6-7 weeks less dark rides home with only December/early Jan becoming dark in the morning (it's much less busy in the mornings too since I pass through student land so no one's up yet ). Perhaps I should change my work hours... it is now tempting me!

[Eugene]

I am horrified that some MP's want to bring GMT+2 in and are having a discussion on it in december in the commons, its too light in the evening in June as it is imagine it not getting properly dark until near midnight :o

How the hell can you goto sleep and get up early for work if its bleedin light until 11 pm , it would just increase anti social behaviour it's bad enough as it is having noisy kids playing around in the summer, an extra hour of light would just increase anti social behaviour, what about all those poor people on shift work which by the way is increasing who cant sleep because of people shouting in their back garden until 11pm and not to mention it staying dark until midday in scotland in the winter.

Its a stupid idea beyond belief only supported by people who dont work and want to doss around until late at night and dont get up for work in the morning and stay in bed all morning.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Eugene

[Summer of 95]

Well it begins - 4 long months of it being dark before I leave work.

The usual nasties like headache/tiredness just after the sun drops kicked in and then out into the very heavy rush hour traffic teeming with unlit cyclists & pedestrians (many of which don't understand the difference between cycle lanes & pedestrian lanes) as well as those blinding almost blue headlamps that so many cars are now fitted with. That horrible feeling of unsafeness kicks in pretty fast!

It'd be ok if streets were quiet (I mean summer darkness cycling is no problem at all since there's so few people around by then) but the return of schools has exactly timed in with the clock move so it's dreadful tonight.

And then home to fumble around looking for keys under the dim glow of our (gas powered so yes very dim) street lamp and drag the bins in to the dark courtyard - and oh just trod in some mud I couldn't see and in the house it goes!

To the point.... I really really really wish we'd leave the clocks on BST - it'd give me perhaps 6-7 weeks less dark rides home with only December/early Jan becoming dark in the morning (it's much less busy in the mornings too since I pass through student land so no one's up yet ). Perhaps I should change my work hours... it is now tempting me!

Yes- that feeling of unsafeness really was apparent at 5pm today, my first day at work since the change. Having been driving around for 9 hours the last thing I need is darkness+stupid traffic+rain at 5pm. At least with darkness at 7am you know it can only get lighter and most of the drivers have not done a day's work. And at 2am there's hardly any other cars. Having to look out for that unlit cyclist while keeping an eye on 3 lanes of traffic on an overloaded roundabout in the dark (with those blue headlamps- yes they are dazzling to other car drivers as well) after a day at work is just one annoyance too many. With BST all year it would never be darker than civil twilight here at 5pm, and never fully dark till nearly 6 (and that would be mostly in the Christmas holiday period)- well here we are, drivers and cyclists agreeing on something! Mr Clarkson where are you? Campaign for it on Top Gear and maybe somebody high up will listen.....

[Essan]

Yes- that feeling of unsafeness really was apparent at 5pm today, my first day at work since the change. Having been driving around for 9 hours the last thing I need is darkness+stupid traffic+rain at 5pm. At least with darkness at 7am you know it can only get lighter and most of the drivers have not done a day's work. And at 2am there's hardly any other cars. Having to look out for that unlit cyclist while keeping an eye on 3 lanes of traffic on an overloaded roundabout in the dark (with those blue headlamps- yes they are dazzling to other car drivers as well) after a day at work is just one annoyance too many. With BST all year it would never be darker than civil twilight here at 5pm, and never fully dark till nearly 6 (and that would be mostly in the Christmas holiday period)- well here we are, drivers and cyclists agreeing on something! Mr Clarkson where are you? Campaign for it on Top Gear and maybe somebody high up will listen.....

Won't help those who drive home at 6.00pm. Maybe it'd be easier to ban other cars as they seem to be the main problem?

Anyway, after 10,000 years you'd have thought we'd have gotten used to it by now? But that's the English for you .....

[Haley Puckle]

Yes- that feeling of unsafeness really was apparent at 5pm today, my first day at work since the change. Having been driving around for 9 hours the last thing I need is darkness+stupid traffic+rain at 5pm. At least with darkness at 7am you know it can only get lighter and most of the drivers have not done a day's work. And at 2am there's hardly any other cars. Having to look out for that unlit cyclist while keeping an eye on 3 lanes of traffic on an overloaded roundabout in the dark (with those blue headlamps- yes they are dazzling to other car drivers as well) after a day at work is just one annoyance too many. With BST all year it would never be darker than civil twilight here at 5pm, and never fully dark till nearly 6 (and that would be mostly in the Christmas holiday period)- well here we are, drivers and cyclists agreeing on something! Mr Clarkson where are you? Campaign for it on Top Gear and maybe somebody high up will listen.....

Hi folks. BST throught the winter in my neck of the woods would mean the sun wouldn't rise until 10am in late December - no thank you! There's quite a difference in sun rise/set time along the length of Britain so it would be difficult to keep everyone happy without different time zones.

I appreciate road safety is a very important matter, but I think it's hardly grounds to play around with GMT for the whole of Britain - leave the clocks alone!!

What might work as a compromise would be if BST were extended to run from say early February to late November so that the morning weren't just so dark here up north - just and idea.

[Bottesford]

I am horrified that some MP's want to bring GMT+2 in and are having a discussion on it in december in the commons, its too light in the evening in June as it is imagine it not getting properly dark until near midnight :o

How the hell can you goto sleep and get up early for work if its bleedin light until 11 pm , it would just increase anti social behaviour it's bad enough as it is having noisy kids playing around in the summer, an extra hour of light would just increase anti social behaviour, what about all those poor people on shift work which by the way is increasing who cant sleep because of people shouting in their back garden until 11pm and not to mention it staying dark until midday in scotland in the winter.

Its a stupid idea beyond belief only supported by people who dont work and want to doss around until late at night and dont get up for work in the morning and stay in bed all morning.

ermm that's certainly one perspective on it! I think they're more on about GMT+2 in summer and GMT+1 in winter so no 'staying dark until midday in scotland in the winter' (which won't happen even under GMT+2).

The idea has merit. In high summer it's mostly light by 4-4:30am with the majority of people sleeping until at least 6 or 7am (so no NOT just people who lie in bed all day!) but dark by 9-9:30pm. I'd say there are more people who sleep 11pm-7am than 9pm-5am so it does make sense from that perspective.

I think the main problem isn't light evenings in summer or dark afternoons in winter - it is simply the sudden jump into darkness during late October. It'd be one thing if it went from 8pm to 7pm suddenly as it's after the main rush hour then gently carried on until it hit 4pm. But jumping from around 6pm to 5pm (i.e. the peak of the rush hour) must cause so many more accidents than if it slowly got darker over a period of weeks.

Really lets stop messing with the clocks and stay on BST! Or if we must (for those who insist) stay on GMT then change all working hours, train/bus times, tv schedules an hour earlier.

Hi folks. BST throught the winter in my neck of the woods would mean the sun wouldn't rise until 10am in late December - no thank you! There's quite a difference in sun rise/set time along the length of Britain so it would be difficult to keep everyone happy without different time zones.

I appreciate road safety is a very important matter, but I think it's hardly grounds to play around with GMT for the whole of Britain - leave the clocks alone!!

What might work as a compromise would be if BST were extended to run from say early February to late November so that the morning weren't just so dark here up north - just and idea.

Definitely more reasonable - it's crazy during late Feb/early March being broad daylight before 6am but still dark before 6pm! More people are awake doing things at 6pm than 6am!

[Winter Warmer]

i defo feel down more around this time of year but when it snows my mood improves i dont no if thats just the fact that its snowed lol or somthing to do with it been brighter because of the reflection off the snow

[Guest]

Simple poll: yes or no?

Do you find having to get up and go to work in the dark depressing?

I find it easier to send my sons back to bed in the dark than in the light so I tend to get more sleep when the mornings are darker. For example, I had a lie in until 6.40 this morning whereas last month my 2 year old was getting up at 5.20am every bloody day!!

I also find headlights are quite useful on the drive to work...

I am horrified that some MP's want to bring GMT+2 in and are having a discussion on it in december in the commons, its too light in the evening in June as it is imagine it not getting properly dark until near midnight :o

Have you been to Scotland in June? We're already there. Imagine it not getting dark until 2am!!!