The North Atlantic Current Is Gone

[Guest]

Looking at the charts it seems that the NAD has been deflected more to the west so southern Greenland and the area around Newfoundland are experiencing higher than normal sea temps, our sea temps are about normal then in the mid Atlantic there is a cooler patch with another one to the north of North Cape in Norway.

Then around the northernmost island of Japan there is another comparitively warm patch.

Is it likely that as the stream drifts to the north we will come under the influence of the cooler patch now in mid ocean?

Another point nagging at the back of my mind is that during the Little Ice Age I seem to recollect reading somewhere that there were ice bergs off Scotland. I have tried searching for something to substantiate this but without success, or was it something I dreamed about? If this were to have been the case, it might mean that they were travelling against what we now know to be the Gulf Stream. I would expect that the direction of travel by bergs could be affected by the wind but more importantly by the flow of the water current :lol: . Perhaps that may have been a period when the Gulf stream had a breather.

Any ideas.

[blitzen]

Surface velocities are affected by weather. The main current is well below the surface. Compare the 200m velocities The Gulf Stream is very much alive and well.

(the surface flow may well have been disrupted by Hurricane Earl)

SSTs around Britain are perfectly normal - anyone living by the coast can check for themselves Or maybe all Britain's swimmers and sailors fishermen and surfers are in on the conspiracy? :lol:

btw if the Gulf Stream has stopped, it seems to be good news for Iceland which is currently experiencing a remarkable September heatwave and experiencing the highest temps it's had all year!

Essan, the surface flow has been disrupted well before hurricane earl hit. I see what you are saying about the velocity at 200m but would like to compare it with 200m velocity this time last year. Perhaps someone cleverer than me can manage to find a chart and post it? Bet there is still a huge difference.

[snowlover2009]

Essan, the surface flow has been disrupted well before hurricane earl hit. I see what you are saying about the velocity at 200m but would like to compare it with 200m velocity this time last year. Perhaps someone cleverer than me can manage to find a chart and post it? Bet there is still a huge difference.

yes , i understand too. if certain patterns change the surface flow then fair enough, but not as extremely significantly as the two charts posted by the other poster. interesting indeed.

Edited September 8, 2010 by snowlover2009

[Mondy]

So is global warming over ?

:lol:

[blitzen]

So is global warming over ?

Dunno, but post up the 200m velocity chart of the gulf stream last year at this time for me and we might find out! :lol:

[Turnedoutniceagain]

So is global warming over ?

Stop it !! There'll be a riot :lol:

[Fozfoster]

So is global warming over ?

:lol:

WELL IS IT, LOL

[eyeofthestorm]

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream

"Typically, the Gulf Stream is 100 kilometres (62 mi) wide and 800 metres (2,600 ft) to 1,200 metres (3,900 ft) deep. The current velocity is fastest near the surface, with the maximum speed typically about 2.5 metres per second (5.6 mph).^[20] As it travels north, the warm water transported by the Gulf Stream undergoes evaporative cooling. The cooling is wind driven: wind moving over the water cools it and also causes evaporation, leaving a saltier brine. In this process, the water increases in salinity and density, and decreases in temperature. Once sea ice forms, salts are left out of the ice, a process known as brine exclusion.^[21] These two processes produce water that is denser and colder (or, more precisely, water that is still liquid at a lower temperature). In the North Atlantic Ocean, the water becomes so dense that it begins to sink down through less salty and less dense water. (The convective action is not unlike that of a lava lamp.) This downdraft of heavy, cold and dense water becomes a part of the North Atlantic Deep Water, a southgoing stream.^[22] Very little seaweed lies within the current, although seaweed lies in clusters to its east"

[PLANET THANET]

Dear All

I dont often post on here but after reading about the gulf stream etc I googled "golf stream die" and although there were some unrelated sites there were two sites that were very interesting, one being dated on the 2/9/2010 putting forward a good case for all the weather changes in the world and attributing this to the dying gulf stream.

I am sorry that I cant post the link because I dont really know how to, just do as I did and google...golf stream die.

[snowlover2009]

Dear All

I dont often post on here but after reading about the gulf stream etc I googled "golf stream die" and although there were some unrelated sites there were two sites that were very interesting, one being dated on the 2/9/2010 putting forward a good case for all the weather changes in the world and attributing this to the dying gulf stream.

I am sorry that I cant post the link because I dont really know how to, just do as I did and google...golf stream die.

this

http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/global-changes-from-dying-gulf-stream-and-dead-north-atlantic-current/

[Essan]

Dunno, but post up the 200m velocity chart of the gulf stream last year at this time for me and we might find out!

I can't find archive 100m or 200m depth charts, but these show overall velocity (rather than just a 0m as er the charts folk have been getting excited about)

1st Sept 2010:

1st Sept 2009:

1st Sept 2005:

http://rads.tudelft.nl/gulfstream/index.shtml

Edited September 8, 2010 by Essan

[blitzen]

I can't find archive 100m or 200m depth charts, but these show overall velocity (rather than just a 0m as er the charts folk have been getting excited about)

1st Sept 2010:

1st Sept 2009:

1st Sept 2005:

http://rads.tudelft.nl/gulfstream/index.shtml

Thanks for those Essan. Pretty status quo really aren't they?

[snowlover2009]

I can't find archive 100m or 200m depth charts, but these show overall velocity (rather than just a 0m as er the charts folk have been getting excited about)

1st Sept 2010:

1st Sept 2009:

1st Sept 2005:

http://rads.tudelft....eam/index.shtml

those pictures make no difference at all, when you compare them to the other links. if you look carefully on the links provided on the last page, you can just make out the jet to the south east of the states and it looks similar to the charts you posted , with the same m/s,.

look at this pic here, the gulf stream is very similar to those above, however compare it to recent years, there is a big difference

My link

Edited September 8, 2010 by snowlover2009

[bobbydog]

Surface velocities are affected by weather. The main current is well below the surface. Compare the 200m velocities The Gulf Stream is very much alive and well.

(the surface flow may well have been disrupted by Hurricane Earl)

SSTs around Britain are perfectly normal - anyone living by the coast can check for themselves Or maybe all Britain's swimmers and sailors fishermen and surfers are in on the conspiracy?

btw if the Gulf Stream has stopped, it seems to be good news for Iceland which is currently experiencing a remarkable September heatwave and experiencing the highest temps it's had all year!

th 200m charts are actually irrelevent. the gulf stream runs from the surface, ( at which it is fastest and heavily wind influenced) down to around 1600m. if you check the velocity scale at the side of the charts, you will see it is a lot slower than the surface. the fact that you can see more of it, just means the velocities are more consistant at that depth. as someone else posted, it would be nice to have last years charts to compare it to, as it appears to be working fine, but we dont know what it looked like this time last year. time will tell i suppose but its worth keeping an eye on the NOAA site to see how things pan out over the next few months

[snowlover2009]

th 200m charts are actually irrelevent. the gulf stream runs from the surface, ( at which it is fastest and heavily wind influenced) down to around 1600m. if you check the velocity scale at the side of the charts, you will see it is a lot slower than the surface. the fact that you can see more of it, just means the velocities are more consistant at that depth. as someone else posted, it would be nice to have last years charts to compare it to, as it appears to be working fine, but we dont know what it looked like this time last year. time will tell i suppose but its worth keeping an eye on the NOAA site to see how things pan out over the next few months

yes the links on page 4 are much accurate as they show a much more detailed view of the situation. the ones above are ok, however do not provide an accurate view of much, i.e atlantic and the rest of the world. the links above which show the gulf stream can just be seen on the links i posted on page 4.

[eyeofthestorm]

Somehow I just cant see how BP fits into all of this. The Internet abuzz with people putting blame on BP. To me it is technically impossible for BP to somehow stop almost the entire gulf stream, and severely disrupting the rest of the currents.

I think this needs a separate thread which just focuses on hard data, not some blog which claims it is going to wipe us all out!! Been a fascinating debate tonight anyway.

Edited September 8, 2010 by eyeofthestorm

[ZONE 51]

Talking about thousands of years ago Ige Age time - (QUOTE) "In simple terms, the CONVEYOR SHUT DOWN and triggered a BREAKDOWN OF THE GULF STREAM, so that warm water no longer flowed north-east across the Alantic Ocean.

(QUOTE) - "The Gulf Stream is the reason why western Europe is on average MUCH WARMER THAN SHOULD BE EXPECTED FOR ITS HIGH LATITUDE on the globe: as the warm water moves north-east and cools it releases heat into the atmosphere, bringing warmer weather. If the conveyor slowed down or shut down ,that current flow would weaken and shift south ,well away from the North Atlantic allowing the air above that region to cool.

(QUOTE) -"Thirteen Thousand years ago the sudden cooling would have begun to BUILD UP A CAP OF SEA ICE which would have PREVENTED THE GULF STREAM FROM STARTING UP AGAIN, and the pattern was set for many centuries - a thousand-year setback in the world's recovery from the ICEAGE"

Looks like an ice age period then!?

[cheeky_monkey]

strange how this story rears it ugly head year after year..i can see no evidence of the current shutting down changing course or weakening..as has been touted so many times in the last few years..its just the same old story dressed up in new clothes...no doubt it will disapear only to resurface again this time next year.

Edited September 9, 2010 by cheeky_monkey

[weathe20]

I think the only way this can be resolved is by monitoring sea temperatures. How much a drop in temperature is required to really effect our winter?

Currently sea temperatures are normal, these figures need to be watched between now and Christmas to get any idea of how the gulf stream is behaving.

[ZONE 51]

(QUOTE) - " The STOPPING OF THE GULF STREAM would bring an advance of sea ice across across the North Atlantic and, together with LENGTHIER WINTERS and long-lasting snow cover on land, this vast area of white would reflect back much more of the sun's heat, adding to the cooling affect. So summers would be much shorter and frosts could be expected to continue into June....Bizarre as it may seem, global warming could bring us a new Ice Age". AMAZING STUFF!!

[Essan]

The best analogy for what might happen if the Gulf Stream/NADC were to stop is the 8.2ka Event - the last time we have evidence this happened.

For the British Isles, paleo evidence suggests a cooler, drier climate (and no glaciers!!!)

http://www.geos.ed.ac.uk/homes/s9741828/UK_Ireland.html

Across Europe as a whole there was cooling of ~1c

http://www.clim-past.net/5/523/2009/cp-5-523-2009.pdf

(For Greenland, ice cores suggest more like 4-8c)

However on that occasion it look a massive, sudden, influx of fresh water from Lake Agassiv - something which cannot happen today. There is no reason to suppose the Gulf Stream will stop today (why should it?) nor any evidence that it will. Indeed all evidence suggests it's as strong today as ever.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8589512.stm

[MR EXTREMES]

strange how this story rears it ugly head year after year..i can see no evidence of the current shutting down changing course or weakening..as has been touted so many times in the last few years..its just the same old story dressed up in new clothes...no doubt it will disapear only to resurface again this time next year.

to be fair the gulf stream is very unpredictable but there has been over the last decade a decrease of 30 to 40% decrease in the flow of the stream,although its unclear why but is expected its a normal cycle.

but im pretty sure its not shutdown but possible it could have weakened futher which of coarse would be a worry in its self decrease by 50% or more means temps could come down close to a chilly NH.

[mildmuck]

The best analogy for what might happen if the Gulf Stream/NADC were to stop is the 8.2ka Event - the last time we have evidence this happened.

For the British Isles, paleo evidence suggests a cooler, drier climate (and no glaciers!!!)

http://www.geos.ed.a...UK_Ireland.html

Across Europe as a whole there was cooling of ~1c

http://www.clim-past...-5-523-2009.pdf

(For Greenland, ice cores suggest more like 4-8c)

However on that occasion it look a massive, sudden, influx of fresh water from Lake Agassiv - something which cannot happen today. There is no reason to suppose the Gulf Stream will stop today (why should it?) nor any evidence that it will. Indeed all evidence suggests it's as strong today as ever.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ech/8589512.stm

That BBC News Article was dated March, they reported trouble with gulf stream in July (not bbc ovs) . I'm really confused about this so are you telling me there's no North Atlantic current because judging by the NOAA Charts ....well it's not there lol ??

I may just be stupid and reading it wrong.

[Essan]

That BBC News Article was dated March,

The result of a long study. The GS doesn't stop overnight - it would slow down over a period of years. Bit like a supertanker. There's too much momentum in it just to stop quickly.

they reported trouble with gulf stream in July

'they' being global cooling catastrophists and conspiracy theorists who know less about Ocenaography than a small Peruvian parrot knows about the contents of my underwear drawer.

I'm really confused about this so are you telling me there's no North Atlantic current

No, I'm telling you that there's a perfectly normal, healthy, North Atlantic current. And this is one of the reasons sea temperatures off NW Europe are perfectly normal for the time of year.

[BristolBlizzard]

That BBC News Article was dated March, they reported trouble with gulf stream in July (not bbc ovs) . I'm really confused about this so are you telling me there's no North Atlantic current because judging by the NOAA Charts ....well it's not there lol ??

I may just be stupid and reading it wrong.

heres a link i found http://www.morningliberty.com/2010/09/08/gulf-oil-stream-gulf-ocean-is-dead-gulf-stream-has-stopped/