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PersianPaladin

Is sterilisation the only option?

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With the unsustainable degrees of consumption and waste going on in the world; exarcebated by large population growth in places like China, India, etc.....this is only going to worsen AGW.

Should a certain percentage of men and women be compulsory sterilised? When will we get to a point where drastic measures have to be taken?

(Btw...I may have been bitten by Gray-Wolf's doomster bug here).

:)

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100% No.

No-one has the right to decide who should or should not reproduce. The only option is education.

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100% No.

No-one has the right to decide who should or should not reproduce. The only option is education.

If there is consensus among people...why not?

If it affects us all; we should be thinking about it eventually. We cant just continue growing forever.

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If there is consensus among people...why not?

If it affects us all; we should be thinking about it eventually. We cant just continue growing forever.

Which is why I suggest education. Teach people that it is more responsible to have a smaller family, that one is better able to provide for them. But who decides who is sterilised? The state? Ridiculous.

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Which is why I suggest education. Teach people that it is more responsible to have a smaller family, that one is better able to provide for them. But who decides who is sterilised? The state? Ridiculous.

I think that probably makes sense.

Education at an early age and done properly and organised in such a way that it is effective. Also perhaps remove some of the cultural-ingrained reasons for such high rates of reproduction.

Mind you economic factors still tend to be the driving force behind such growth; and we need to think about a new economic framework that discourages such an unsustainable impact on our collective environment.

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Mother nature will deal with the problem in it's own way.

Education should help. You can also argue that people who can't naturally have children shouldn't receive any help bar adoption.

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Mother nature will deal with the problem in it's own way.

Education should help. You can also argue that people who can't naturally have children shouldn't receive any help bar adoption.

I'm always amazed by the number of post yet get in climate forums citing 'Mother Nature' or the like. The reality is the mother nature is taking a right kicking atm and it will be the collapse of mother nature that will damage humanity not her turning on us.

Ergo, we ought to look after here not wait for her to collapse under the weight of our assault.

Btw, I'm not in favour of forced sterilisation. But I would be in favour of making contraception much more widely available world wide and of more education about such matters. Fat chance of that happening given the views of some religions...

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You think we could keep growing forever even if we wanted to? There are limits to growth. We're on a small planet with very finite resources that are being used far from sustainably. It has to stop at some time, unless we find another planet we can easily colonise. Not a chance of that though.

The population will have to decrease one day as there simply won't be enough resources to support it. So I'd say sterilisation is completely unncessary, and rather immoral anyway.

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Personally I think everyone should be sterilised at birth - but using a process that can be reversed for those who later go on to demonstrate they are responsible, useful members of society capable and able of raising children (ie about 0.004%). Alternatively, once I finish building my base in an extinct volcano crater I'll unleash the vials of super-mega-'flu and get rid of nearly everyone that way.

There is a simple solution to almost every single problem facing the human race and all other life on the planet: cull humans.

After all, we cull deer to maintain a healthy breeding stock and avoid overpopulation. So why not a less sentient species like humans?

:);):):):p

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Smells of Eugenics all over again. Same rubbish, same moral highground, same pseudo-scientific basis for discriminatory practices.

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You think we could keep growing forever even if we wanted to? There are limits to growth. We're on a small planet with very finite resources that are being used far from sustainably. It has to stop at some time, unless we find another planet we can easily colonise. Not a chance of that though.

The population will have to decrease one day as there simply won't be enough resources to support it. So I'd say sterilisation is completely unncessary, and rather immoral anyway.

I take it you are a hardcore Malthusian.

Technological factors that improve food production efficiency, etc will improve with population...but I agree that there is inevitably a tipping point where the rate of recovery of all resources are exceeded past the a certain threshold.

I'd rather not wait until that point because it would probably mean serious strife, war, starvation and bedlam for humanity.

I hope you're not willing to wait for that either...unless you're a total nutter.

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Wouldn't it be easier to just have birth control and fine people who break to law and have more then say 3 children?

The only way to really tackle over-population is preventing people for living long lives. Obviously the main problem in this country is over immigrating us.

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I personally think forced sterilisation is a very over-the-top response- firstly, who do you sterilse and where do you draw the line?

There are social factors that encourage high reproduction rates. There is, of course, the religious side- some religions encourage people to have large numbers of children, often based on the circumstances that prevailed 2000 years ago, and the "natural" biological make-up of females for child-rearing. But even without religion, we then have social norms to deal with. In the UK, if you go up to a group and say "I want to raise a family" you'll get an approving response, whereas if you say to them "I don't want to have children", chances are you'll get a disapproving response, at best you'll be seen as a bit different, at worst you'll be seen as unnatural or immature. The popular idea that peer pressure only affects teenagers is a myth (it becomes more subtle and less childish as we get older, but it's still there), and there is still social pressure to have children or be unnatural.

In both cases there's a large degree of acceptance without question goes on, and a defensiveness of the status quo whenever someone challenges those ways of thinking. This is not a case for rejecting education, rather, it's something that must be taken into account when utilising education.

One idea was China's one-child policy (which might have changed to two children, I'm not sure) but that too was flawed, because people found ways around the system, female babies were sacrificed for male ones etc.

Trouble is, regrettably, there are no non-flawed methods for addressing the problem, which is why I don't reject the idea of education etc- the other methods generally contain even bigger flaws.

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We are living in an age that we find difficult to adapt to and thrive in (in the developed world at least) as the growth in the anti-depressant market surely attests to. Maybe we should consider the children and 'put off' breeding until we are of an age to truely be able to give our offspring the levels of nurture required to equip them to deal with the world we bring them to (Bridgend may show us where we may be headed otherwise).

Breeding is not a fashion, it is not a hobby, it is about taking the responsibility to sacrifice plenty of your life to enable another human being to develop in an acceptable way. We run checks on folk who think they are able to look after exotic pets and some would push to have the same 'checks' employed for dog ownership (and cats of course) so why do the most precious things we can 'look after' need no such scrutiny.

We have an age of consent to protect the would be parent from taking decisions their bodies and minds are not really up to so how about thinking about the unborn child in a similar way and raising the acceptable age to breed to 25 and over? Having a kid is for life and if you made a poor choice then many ,and not just you, suffer as a consequence.

The only way to enforce such a measure would be 'chemical sterilisation' for one sex ,or the other (whichever is safest) even both sex's.

Plenty of children to adopt if you wish to try 'parenting' early and checks are obviously done in those instances.

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I'm always amazed by the number of post yet get in climate forums citing 'Mother Nature' or the like. The reality is the mother nature is taking a right kicking atm and it will be the collapse of mother nature that will damage humanity not her turning on us.

Ergo, we ought to look after here not wait for her to collapse under the weight of our assault.

Btw, I'm not in favour of forced sterilisation. But I would be in favour of making contraception much more widely available world wide and of more education about such matters. Fat chance of that happening given the views of some religions...

Dunno why you're puzzled or do you think we're above nature.

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Developed nations generally have populations that are falling (excluding immgration). Therefore help developing countries become developed.

Back to the original answer = education

Breeding is not a fashion, it is not a hobby,

Absolutely not in developing countries

breeding is a survival mechanism. With no state health or pensions, the more offspring you produce, the more there are around to look after you when you grow old

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Smells of Eugenics all over again. Same rubbish, same moral highground, same pseudo-scientific basis for discriminatory practices.

Someone swallow a dictionary!?

I think nature takes it course. If that nature is artificial or not is the question. We are not at bursting point - far from it.

I reckon there will be a nucular war or a mass plague that will wipe out a fauir chunk of the population before we have to start queuing for loos.

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I think education is important...but look at here in the UK; lots of sex education at school but it doesn't stop teenagers going off and doing it anyway. I mean...yes, I know people enjoy it but it should be done responsibly and for the right reasons rather than just recreation. We don't want more single parent families do we?

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I think education is important...but look at here in the UK; lots of sex education at school but it doesn't stop teenagers going off and doing it anyway. I mean...yes, I know people enjoy it but it should be done responsibly and for the right reasons rather than just recreation. We don't want more single parent families do we?

Fair enough but I think that 'unplanned pregnency' as a result of recreation is not what is driving the world's journey towards overpopulation atm

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Dunno why you're puzzled or do you think we're above nature.

I think we're giving nature a right kicking atm, and I'm not puzzled but amazed people don't see that but think nature can some how turn on us when the opposite is the case.

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Fair enough but I think that 'unplanned pregnency' as a result of recreation is not what is driving the world's journey towards overpopulation atm

Yea fair enough thats true.

Its primary a cultural, religious and economic factor that is compelling it.

I think we're giving nature a right kicking atm, and I'm not puzzled but amazed people don't see that but think nature can some how turn on us when the opposite is the case.

That is wrong I'm afraid.

We are a product of nature, and therefore like any other product are going to have some form of impact or affect on the various micro and macro-scale aspects of the biome in which we reside in. However, we must realise that we are small in nature's eyes and dependent on it, rather than it on us. We may produce large anamolous amounts of heat and this may well imbalance the climate system....but bare in mind this isnt 'making' nature do anything; it is merely responding to the larger heat-budget and making life on earth very dangerous for a lot more people. Eventually a lot of people will loose out as climate becomes more extreme and droughts occur.

I think humanity is in for a severe kicking tbh; and nature simply reacts to whatever affect we have. Its like feeding the wrath of an angry rottweiller by continuing to provoke it....we are simply feeding mother nature more fuel. In the long-term however, nature always recovers.....even if it be long after we are gone.

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Another 'option' to sterility and I'm not advocating one, or the other, might be to stop sending aid to regions where it is needed, either as disaster relief or war. It would, as the Black Death showed, help to control population growth.

Both options have moral issues to address, but both would in the end control populatiom, at least in terms of natural disaster, the latter is less discriminatory.

Both are fairly 'extreme' options.

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What people need to understand is that the entire world around you, the entire civilisation we are now living in is completely unsustainable. It's all fueled by a massive binge of fossil fuels, and fossil fuels are a resource that everyone knows is non-renewable. As we continue to exponentially increase the rate of which this rare and finite is resource depleted, soon a limit will be reached where we can no longer begin to increase the amount of these fossil fuels we can extract, and no longer being able to feed this massive binge. Which is happening about now.

People need to realise we are just another organism. We are the smartest organism, but we will go the way of all organisms that live unsustainably - the way of life and population must come down.

It is arrogance to even think that we will continue to emitt more and more CO2, to consume more and more, to grow and progress more and more. It cannot happen as on this finite Earth there is simply not enough resources. The resources that everything depends on are rapidly being depleted and when they go we will go with them. Also, the Earth doesn't run on money. Money is just bits of paper, or numbers on a spreadsheet. It means nothing. Our entire world depends on physical resources and energy, two things that are in short supply.

So we will stop consuming more, we will stop growing our population, we will stop polluting more. It is the only possible outcome and will happen whether we want it to or not.

Everyone should understand this. And don't believe in solar panels, wind farms saving us. They just don't have the unique qualities of fossil fuels.

The laws of physics are the best form of population control, no need for sterilisation.

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What people need to understand is that the entire world around you, the entire civilisation we are now living in is completely unsustainable. It's all fueled by a massive binge of fossil fuels, and fossil fuels are a resource that everyone knows is non-renewable. As we continue to exponentially increase the rate of which this rare and finite is resource depleted, soon a limit will be reached where we can no longer begin to increase the amount of these fossil fuels we can extract, and no longer being able to feed this massive binge. Which is happening about now.

People need to realise we are just another organism. We are the smartest organism, but we will go the way of all organisms that live unsustainably - the way of life and population must come down.

It is arrogance to even think that we will continue to emitt more and more CO2, to consume more and more, to grow and progress more and more. It cannot happen as on this finite Earth there is simply not enough resources. The resources that everything depends on are rapidly being depleted and when they go we will go with them. Also, the Earth doesn't run on money. Money is just bits of paper, or numbers on a spreadsheet. It means nothing. Our entire world depends on physical resources and energy, two things that are in short supply.

So we will stop consuming more, we will stop growing our population, we will stop polluting more. It is the only possible outcome and will happen whether we want it to or not.

Everyone should understand this. And don't believe in solar panels, wind farms saving us. They just don't have the unique qualities of fossil fuels.

The laws of physics are the best form of population control, no need for sterilisation.

You my friend...are stating the bleedin' obvious.

Of course they will eventually run out; and the vast consumerist nature of global economics will virtually collapse too.

The whole point of things like alternative and renewable energy is to act before the inevitable disaster hits us; because we will have a framework to manage and mitigate stresses on the global economy. We should NOT just wait for the 'inevitable'.

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I think spending all that money on "alternative energy" is like a drug addict desperately spending money trying to get any high he can. It'll never be as good a high as the original, but it may keep him sane for a little longer.

Rather I think that money should be better spent on rehab, to get ourselves out of this "more more more" habit that we're in.

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