The Hadron collider

[phil47uk]

Ok they are spooling up the voltage to fire of this monster hopefully in June-Sept.

The problem seems to be no one seems to know what they'll find or create when they collide particles at sub light speed. Find the elusive Higgs Bosun?.. Create a micro black hole that will devour the earth by 2012. Open up a wormhole and say hello to future time travellers.

There certainly seems to be a lot of controversy surrounding all this.

Any personal views on the matter..Or anti matter ?.. :lol:

[mettalfabrik]

hmm very interesting gonna have to find out a bit more, probaly the biggest thing to happen in science

here is a public brochure from hadron outlining what its all about, beauty and anti beauty quarks ?

http://doc.cern.ch//archive/electronic/cer...004-002-eng.pdf

[Roo]

T'other half used to spend his days firing radioactive particles down a tube of magnetic coils and seeing what happened when they hit little tiny plates at the end of the tube. Positron physics. He's a bit excited about Hadron.

But then he doesn't get out much..... :o :o

[No seriously, very interesting stuff....anti-matter is where theoretical time travel is possible as some particles appear to be destroyed before they are created.....it really is cutting edge stuff: each time Mr Roo tries to explain it I understand it all the while he is saying it, but couldn't for the life of me tell anyone else!]

DIT: Just been talking to Mr Roo and a little bit of space time could break off and create a new universe when they do this....!!!!! Theoretically possible apparently...

Edited May 19, 2008 by Roo

[Stu_London]

Wasn't this the project that there was a high court challenge against because scientists believed there was a possibility of it ending the world?

[Red Raven]

http://www.realufos.net/2008/04/lhc-large-...er-is-cern.html

I'm scared but look forward to the switch on. It could turn out to be not quite powerful enough though :o

[Roo]

Mr Roo says that there really isn't a danger as there are lots of very high energy particles constantly bombarding the planet with energies much higher than CERN could ever hope to reproduce, and we haven't had any problems with that, so there is no reason why the LHC should cause any problems either....another bit of media hysteria, unfortunately.

[Red Raven]

Mr Roo says that there really isn't a danger as there are lots of very high energy particles constantly bombarding the planet with energies much higher than CERN could ever hope to reproduce, and we haven't had any problems with that, so there is no reason why the LHC should cause any problems either....another bit of media hysteria, unfortunately.

No worm holes - I'm disappointed now. :o

If this does (which I don't believe it will) cause the end of the world I would find it very satisfying that humanity destroyed itself for the quest for knowledge as opposed the more likely reason - greed.

[Roo]

No worm holes - I'm disappointed now. :o

You'll just have to settle for the mini-universe possibility then! :lol:

It would be amazing if a job lot of over-tired, underpaid and usually completely inconsequential blue-sky scientists managed to end the world....they'd be dead chuffed at being noticed!!!!

[phil47uk]

Yeah, I was talking to the physics teacher at a private school I visit to teach guitar and he said the same thing about particles hitting the earth all the time. He was going on about creating a small wormhole and people in the future seeing it, with the knowledge to open it up. In other words the first time travellers. First meaning that you can only go back in time to the point where the first time machine was invented..Or created in a lab in this case. I don't think he meant people popping out of it, but maybe in a message. Interesting and frightening stuff though and yes someone is trying to take a lawsuit out to stop them firing it. I'm a musician and not a physics teacher, but I do try to read up a lot about things like this, even if 99% of the time it goes above my head.. And makes my wife yawn. :lol:

[Red Raven]

This is good - I presume he's right.

[phil47uk]

Yeah that's a good video Red raven, although I'm not sure who that guy is. Obviously one can get info from all areas out there, from the flat earth society to the JW's.. :lol:

I have tried to find neutral info on it and the least biased seems to be a BBC Horizon documentary.. Worth watching.

I'm just amazed how many people out there haven't a clue to what the LHC is, when it's probably the biggest event in science in this century and the last.

My only worry is something one guy says.. 'Science is what we do, when we don't know what we are doing'... :o

Phil.

Edited May 19, 2008 by phil47uk

[the_white_stuff]

On one of those LHC videos a scientist mentions that the particle(s) produced from this will only last around a billionth of a billionth of a sec. Now i'm not saying he's wrong but ;

1) how can you possibly measure that sort of time?

2) how do you detect a particle which lasts that short a time?

It's utterly fascinating.

[Roo]

On one of those LHC videos a scientist mentions that the particle(s) produced from this will only last around a billionth of a billionth of a sec. Now i'm not saying he's wrong but ;

1) how can you possibly measure that sort of time?

2) how do you detect a particle which lasts that short a time?

It's utterly fascinating.

Mr Roo says,

1) Theory tells you how long they survive. Also timing equipment is apparently pretty good: Mr Roo used to be able to time something to within a fraction of a nanosecond, with off the shelf kit!

2) You don't necessarily detect it directly: it will decay into other particles and you detect those. Because Hadron is in a certain energy/state, there's a tell tale combination of particles it can decay into and when you see those you know you've got it, but it will take a lot of data and a long period of analysis to see it.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Roo

[stewfox]

Ok they are spooling up the voltage to fire of this monster hopefully in June-Sept.

The problem seems to be no one seems to know what they'll find or create when they collide particles at sub light speed. Find the elusive Higgs Bosun?.. Create a micro black hole that will devour the earth by 2012. Open up a wormhole and say hello to future time travellers.

There certainly seems to be a lot of controversy surrounding all this.

Any personal views on the matter..Or anti matter ?..

I think they know what they 'hope' to find

What controversy ? the cost ?

http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Welcome.html

The web site is fairly informative

[Osbourne One-Nil]

Mr Roo used to be able to time something to within a fraction of a nanosecond, with off the shelf kit!

Viagra's sorted that has it?

[Roo]

Viagra's sorted that has it?

Hahahahaha! You don't need viagra when you have a 7 metre long tube to fire particles down!

[PersianPaladin]

This is assuming that there is such a particle as 'anti-matter' or even that the universe began as the 'big bang'. This is all pure conjecture and scientists continuing to mess with things they shouldnt be messing with.

By what chemistry did all these particles decide to intwine together with? Explosions are by their nature, chaotic and could well conceive of there being no harmonious result after their conception.

[Red Raven]

This is assuming that there is such a particle as 'anti-matter' or even that the universe began as the 'big bang'. This is all pure conjecture and scientists continuing to mess with things they shouldnt be messing with.

By what chemistry did all these particles decide to intwine together with? Explosions are by their nature, chaotic and could well conceive of there being no harmonious result after their conception.

Oh no not that debate again

[Osbourne One-Nil]

No....not that debate again....I promise!

[BARRY]

It's a worry

[Admiral_Bobski]

It's a worry

The Hadron Collider or "that debate"...?

CB

Edited May 20, 2008 by Captain_Bobski

[Rustynailer]

The film, The Neverending story springs to mind.

This device, if it did make a black hole would be inconvenient for me

I am sick of progress sometimes, just lately more so.

[phil47uk]

The point is that they don't know what they'll find as no one has ever done this experiment before. If they knew exactly what they'd find they would have never built a mutli billion project like this. Like most scientific things, they theorise about what they'll find, but they can't be certain untill they have opened the door so to speak.

They hope to create conditions at around the first millionth or so of a second after the big bang. What happens when these particles collide at just below the speed of light and just what it creates, or does not create in a lab I suppose remains to be seen.. fascinating stuff, but a bit scary, us this is uncharted waters.

Edited May 20, 2008 by phil47uk

[J07]

This is assuming that there is such a particle as 'anti-matter' or even that the universe began as the 'big bang'. This is all pure conjecture and scientists continuing to mess with things they shouldnt be messing with.

Of course anti-matter does exist. It was postulated by Dirac and discovered a few years later. Originally treated as "electron holes", they turned out to be "positrons".

Now it turns out, by the standard model, that every particle has its own antiparticle. In some cases, a particle is its own antiparticle.

On Feynmann diagrams (an intuitive scribble of particle interactions), antiparticles are marked as going backwards in time. Though really you don't have to think of it like that.

For the most part, when it comes to charged particles, their antiparticle just has opposite electrical charge. Nothing terribly crazy about that.

By what chemistry did all these particles decide to intwine together with? Explosions are by their nature, chaotic and could well conceive of there being no harmonious result after their conception.

If you claim that anti-particles don't exist and that they are "pure conjecture", why would anyone put faith in your opinions on the big bang?

[the_white_stuff]

Mr Roo says,

1) Theory tells you how long they survive. Also timing equipment is apparently pretty good: Mr Roo used to be able to time something to within a fraction of a nanosecond, with off the shelf kit!

2) You don't necessarily detect it directly: it will decay into other particles and you detect those. Because Hadron is in a certain energy/state, there's a tell tale combination of particles it can decay into and when you see those you know you've got it, but it will take a lot of data and a long period of analysis to see it.

What are Mr. Roo's views on the following?

1) what collided to cause the Big-bang if there was no matter, atoms, elements etc before it?