too early yet anyway, best if it waits until mid Dec, signs it will, but will end up typical TMW fashion, mid dec for cold now, early dec arrives, late Dec now for SSW, heights to NE, Xmas arrives, 'signs of a SSW for mid Jan', early Jan arrives (still waiting for a flake of snow) maybe signs of PV weakening by late Jan, along with a SSW, then maybe by Feb, we see heights to our N