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Autumn 2021 - Moans, Ramps & Chat


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Posted
  • Location: London
  • Location: London
4 minutes ago, *Stormforce~beka* said:

I'm a warmie but I want 7 inches of snow in winter thank you very much!! Seasons should be ... well ... seasoney!

It used to be like that, but late 1987 started the shift to milder winters. 
 

That said, the U.K. goes through cycles of cold and mild winters, like the ones during the late 2000s, early 2010s. 

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Posted
  • Location: Penn (by Seven Cornfields) Wolverhampton
  • Weather Preferences: Cold snowy and frosty
  • Location: Penn (by Seven Cornfields) Wolverhampton

Cannot wait for this mild yukky autumn weather to “do one” and make way for crisp colder more seasonal weather.  My birthday is beginning of November and, although never snowy, my birthday has always been on the colder side rather than mild.  One of my pet dislikes are flies - loath the bacteria loaded pesky things and I am still wafting my fly swatter around the carport to kill the blighters.   To add to the frustration my youngest cat loves chasing them around (and eating them ) so as long as flies are around she is very naughty about coming back in!     

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Posted
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl
7 minutes ago, Sunny76 said:

It used to be like that, but late 1987 started the shift to milder winters. 
 

That said, the U.K. goes through cycles of cold and mild winters, like the ones during the late 2000s, early 2010s. 

Weve had clusters of colder winters or winters with at least one lengthy notable cold spell to varying degrees.. most notably late 70s, 81-82 through to 86-87, 93-94 to 96-97.. Feb 05 followed by quite chill 05-06, 08-09 to 12-13 exception 11-12 but that brought a fortnight of cold late Jan to mid Feb..

Was 20-21 start of a new cluster?..

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Posted
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset
  • Weather Preferences: Continental winters & summers.
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset
On 25/10/2021 at 13:49, damianslaw said:

Weve had clusters of colder winters or winters with at least one lengthy notable cold spell to varying degrees.. most notably late 70s, 81-82 through to 86-87, 93-94 to 96-97.. Feb 05 followed by quite chill 05-06, 08-09 to 12-13 exception 11-12 but that brought a fortnight of cold late Jan to mid Feb..

Was 20-21 start of a new cluster?..

I'd love to experience the Feb 05 cold spell again, but off a cold continent with slightly better 850s. There were some transient lying snowfalls here but overall it was quite a disappointment given the synoptics.

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Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire

There are mild winter weather types that can generate a fair amount of interest - an unusual spell of mild weather accompanied by bright sunshine (e.g. mid to late February 2019), or those blustery, showery polar maritime/returning polar maritime air masses that can give hail and thunder, squall lines, unusually windy spells.  I guess I'm rather more surprised at regular contributors preferring mild and benign/ordinary weather in the winter, but there are of course those who are mainly into summer and aren't too fussed on winter.

I'm rather like what Philip Eden said he was sometime around 2005 in an interview with Netweather, I'm a snow aficionado like most of the other members but I also enjoy other types of winter weather as well, and note that most days feature at least something of interest.  It does partly depend on where you live though - I did lose interest at times in Exeter but I think here in Lincoln there's generally rather more variability.  Philip lived in Luton if I remember rightly, along with (here's a blast from the past!) mr_crazy_snowfan.

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Posted
  • Location: East Devon
  • Location: East Devon
17 hours ago, Beanz said:

What I find odd when people suggest they hope for a warm, mild winter in the U.K. is that they’re posting on a weather forum.  Surely you hope for something different than what basically amounts to a continuum of autumn weather in winter months and provides little in the way of interest for a weather enthusiast.. 

 

11 hours ago, MattStoke said:

Mild winters are mind numbingly boring and unpleasant. It just means continuous wind, rain and grey skies. Zero interest.

I can understand not liking being cold and not wanting disruption from snow and ice but to actually like that mild dross is just weird. Besides, wind and rain makes it feel colder than lower temperatures and calm conditions and can be just as disruptive as snow and ice. 


For me 'Autumnal' weather can provide interest. I don't like days of mild overcast south-westerly winds, but don't mind an active Atlantic that brings all sorts, including sunshine and squally/thundery/wintry showers in the PM/RPM air between active fronts. Although that may bring 'nearer normal' temperatures as opposed to overly mild conditions.

It may not be my first choice in winter, I'd prefer snow (or sun and hard frosts), but living in the south you've got to find some other interest unless you're only satisfied once every 3 years haha.

I might be nit-picking but winter 2013/2014 was actually sunnier than average for large areas, including the south where it was the wettest on record. I'm not going to lie I also found the storms that winter quite interesting, not boring from a meteorological perspective. 

My least favourite conditions are when there's a grey spell for days on end with no sun, whether that's delivered via long fetch SW winds and drizzle, anticyclonic gloom, or an easterly (unless it brings something else of interest like very low temps or snow). I didn't really like early January 2021 in Devon as it was often just grey and cold, as was March 2013 (that winter was duller than 2013/14 for most of England)
 

2 hours ago, Thundery wintry showers said:

There are mild winter weather types that can generate a fair amount of interest - an unusual spell of mild weather accompanied by bright sunshine (e.g. mid to late February 2019), or those blustery, showery polar maritime/returning polar maritime air masses that can give hail and thunder, squall lines, unusually windy spells.  I guess I'm rather more surprised at regular contributors preferring mild and benign/ordinary weather in the winter, but there are of course those who are mainly into summer and aren't too fussed on winter.

I'm rather like what Philip Eden said he was sometime around 2005 in an interview with Netweather, I'm a snow aficionado like most of the other members but I also enjoy other types of winter weather as well, and note that most days feature at least something of interest.  It does partly depend on where you live though - I did lose interest at times in Exeter but I think here in Lincoln there's generally rather more variability.  Philip lived in Luton if I remember rightly, along with (here's a blast from the past!) mr_crazy_snowfan.

that sounds very similar to my view too. Interestingly I felt Devon had more interesting weather in Autumn/Winter on average than where I went to university in Egham, Surrey. The reason being Devon is more exposed to those features that add interest (for me) to our more normal weather (e.g. thundery showers off the sea, active fronts, Atlantic storms), even if less favoured on the occasion we do get a cold spell. Then again, how often has the east seen decent snow cover off an easterly recently? I recall forum member 'reef' living near Hull had seen barely any lying snow since 2013 or 2010? (not sure how much they saw in Feb 2021) and hence Exeter saw considerably more in that period due mainly to March 2018.

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Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
On 25/10/2021 at 19:11, Evening thunder said:

that sounds very similar to my view too. Interestingly I felt Devon had more interesting weather in Autumn/Winter than where I went to university in Egham, Surrey. The reason being Devon is more exposed to those features that add interest (for me) to our more normal weather (e.g. thundery showers off the sea, active fronts, Atlantic storms), even if less favoured on the occasion we do get a cold spell. Then again, how often has the east seen decent snow cover off an easterly recently? I recall forum member 'reef' living near Hull had seen barely any lying snow since 2013 or 2010? (not sure how much they saw in Feb 2021) and hence Exeter saw considerably more in that period due mainly to March 2018.

Yes I measured 17cm of level snow on the evening of 1 March 2018 in Exeter (I couldn't measure the snow depth on the 2nd because of the ice storm overnight).  It's amusing to think that despite having lived in several relatively snowy areas of the UK, the deepest snow depth that I've measured where I lived since I started taking records in 1993 was in Exeter, but that's one of the quirks of Exeter's climate: mild, but prone to occasional extreme snowstorms.

I think around Hull has been extremely unlucky for snow in recent years.  RAF Waddington near Lincoln had 13 consecutive days of snow cover in January 2013, 7 days of lying snow in the winter of 2014/15, and picked up a fair amount of snow in the easterlies of February & March 2018 (though not as much as Exeter) and there were several days of lying snow from the February 2021 easterlies albeit not more than 2-3cm.  Perhaps surprisingly, around these parts winter thunderstorms are about as common as they are in Exeter on average.  I agree that I'd probably find the winters in Surrey pretty boring (and often more so than those of Exeter).

I admit I was quite happy to be in Exeter during the very westerly winter of 2019/20 as well as the aforementioned 2017/18, as there wasn't really much snow in other parts of the UK (so living in Exeter I didn't miss out on much), and Exeter had a fair amount of dramatic Atlantic-driven weather including 3 days of thunder and several days with wintry showers in February.   I found the winter of 2020/21 very frustrating there though, and I think it was especially last winter when I lost interest to some extent.

Edited by Thundery wintry showers
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Posted
  • Location: Nymburk, Czech Republic and Staines, UK
  • Weather Preferences: Sunny and warm in summer, thunderstorms, snow, fog, frost, squall lines
  • Location: Nymburk, Czech Republic and Staines, UK

Gorgeous run of sunny, cool days here and chilly nights with slight frosts. No complaints, though there’s been no fog to speak of, which I like in autumn. 

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Posted
  • Location: Hampshire
  • Weather Preferences: Bright weather. Warm sunny thundery summers, short cold winters.
  • Location: Hampshire

Damper and more unsettled than I was expecting this week.

With pressure high to the south, I was expecting mild but dry, at least until Thursday, though rather cloudy with a Sc sheet.

Instead the air is extremely damp, with the (relatively sporadic if occasionally heavy) rain we've had until Sunday is not evaporating off. The ground has been damp since Sunday afternoon. Also a low, dishwater like cloud base and exceptionally humid, not nice at all.

When I read the weather forecast over the weekend, it actually sounded more optimistic than my own prediction, in that it referred to fine weather quite a bit, which to me suggests at least partly sunny. Instead it's gone the other way.

At least last time I looked at the models, they suggested that after a wet period at the end of the week, we might then get into a less humid and brighter NW-ly pattern. Hoping this comes off.

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Posted
  • Location: Hampshire
  • Weather Preferences: Bright weather. Warm sunny thundery summers, short cold winters.
  • Location: Hampshire
20 hours ago, Thundery wintry showers said:

There are mild winter weather types that can generate a fair amount of interest - an unusual spell of mild weather accompanied by bright sunshine (e.g. mid to late February 2019), or those blustery, showery polar maritime/returning polar maritime air masses that can give hail and thunder, squall lines, unusually windy spells.  I guess I'm rather more surprised at regular contributors preferring mild and benign/ordinary weather in the winter, but there are of course those who are mainly into summer and aren't too fussed on winter.

I would agree about the Feb 2019 spell, and the chance of mild but pleasant weather in *late* winter in general, to me, hail and thunder belongs in spring and summer, and perhaps autumn - and seems strange in winter where I'm looking for something more classically wintry such as calm, frosty days with sunshine, and snow. Even spells of anticyclonic overcast can be ok - as long as the visibility is good, say 20 miles plus - it's a combination of overcast and mist/haze that I find very depressing.

I sometimes wonder how I would find winters in somewhere like Norwich or Cambridge. In these locations, even southwesterlies have a fairly long land track, which might imply there's less damp humidity even in mild conditions, compared to Hampshire, and winters are significantly more bearable all round.

Certainly I've seen a striking precipitation map for Oct-Dec (was somewhere on the forum recently) and the whole of England south of the M4 was very wet on average, and East Anglia quite significantly drier, as well as places like Oxford. It really did seem as if the M4 was a very sharp delineation point. Certainly goes against the popular perception of the south having a benign climate. (In fact, I remember at least two occasions travelling south on the train from Birmingham through Oxford and Reading, and noticing the benign mid-level cloud change to damp and more menacing low cloud somewhere in the Reading area).

I prefer the scenery of this part of the world, so not consider moving, but would be interesting to compare East Anglian winters with those of the central south (apart from the obvious more snow).

 

Edited by Summer8906
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Posted
  • Location: Hampshire
  • Weather Preferences: Bright weather. Warm sunny thundery summers, short cold winters.
  • Location: Hampshire
On 24/10/2021 at 11:34, LetItSnow! said:

Certainly felt quite dull. Being in the SE all summer it’s actually felt incredibly dull, after a dull autumn and winter. April stood out like a sore thumb though. Actually lead me to a question, when’s the last time we had a year that came out widely duller than average. IIRC, in recent years, even ones that had poor summers had at least near average sunshine. I checked and you have to go back to 2017 to find a year with areas with notably low annual sun totals, though still sunny in the southeast. Indeed, you have to go all the way back to 2002 to find a nationally severely dull year (though still not as bad in the south). 2004 pretty dull too. Anyways, back to 2021… Be interesting to see final figures for sunshine. I’m imaging perhaps a sunnier year in the north but a much duller year here in the south east, perhaps for quite some time. Anomaly maps show only April has been appreciably above average for sunshine in the SE this year. 

Would 2020 have ended up dull? True, April and May were very sunny (wonderful timing) and March and September moderately so, but the rest of the year seemed dull to very dull.

Agree 2021 is even worse though. I think April has been the only sunnier than average month so far in this area?

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Posted
  • Location: East Devon
  • Location: East Devon
18 hours ago, Thundery wintry showers said:

Yes I measured 17cm of level snow on the evening of 1 March 2018 in Exeter (I couldn't measure the snow depth on the 2nd because of the ice storm overnight).  It's amusing to think that despite having lived in several relatively snowy areas of the UK, the deepest snow depth that I've measured where I lived since I started taking records in 1993 was in Exeter, but that's one of the quirks of Exeter's climate: mild, but prone to occasional extreme snowstorms.

I think around Hull has been extremely unlucky for snow in recent years.  RAF Waddington near Lincoln had 13 consecutive days of snow cover in January 2013, 7 days of lying snow in the winter of 2014/15, and picked up a fair amount of snow in the easterlies of February & March 2018 (though not as much as Exeter) and there were several days of lying snow from the February 2021 easterlies albeit not more than 2-3cm.  Perhaps surprisingly, around these parts winter thunderstorms are about as common as they are in Exeter on average.  I agree that I'd probably find the winters in Surrey pretty boring (and often more so than those of Exeter).

I admit I was quite happy to be in Exeter during the very westerly winter of 2019/20 as well as the aforementioned 2017/18, as there wasn't really much snow in other parts of the UK (so living in Exeter I didn't miss out on much), and Exeter had a fair amount of dramatic Atlantic-driven weather including 3 days of thunder and several days with wintry showers in February.   I found the winter of 2020/21 very frustrating there though, and I think it was especially last winter when I lost interest to some extent.

I saw similar totals in 2018 (actually slightly more off the second easterly). December 2010 saw even more, I measured 25cm of level snow on the 20th. However before January 2010 (6cm), there were several slight falls but I cannot remember more than ~2cm during my childhood (memory from the late 90s)! February 2009 gave several inches on nearby hills but at the bottom of the Otter Valley it was just a tiny bit too warm, with 1-2cm of wet snow by morning. 

I wasn't a fan of last winter in East Devon either, maybe a more typical distribution of wintry events and we didn't see much of interest. 

I guess Surrey isn't that prone to snow, but Atlantic interest also tends to lose its potency. One exception when living there was January 2013 which saw a week with several inches of lying snow (it was just a little too mild at low levels near the south coast of Devon). Ironically this was timed with my field trip to Spain! However at least I saw the snow fall before we flew out.

I have a feeling I'd prefer the greater thundery potential of eastern areas in summer though, even if I prefer living in the SW for the scenery/geography (although Egham didn't seem to get that much thunder, I missed more at home in Devon than I saw in Egham, although I wasn't there in July-August).

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Posted
  • Location: Maidstone, Kent
  • Weather Preferences: Anything below 0c or above 20c. Also love a good thunderstorm!
  • Location: Maidstone, Kent

Yeah this time of year I like Northwesterlies which bring low DPs hence the clear air with dramatic skies and good sunsets / sunrises. 

RE location, I'm one one of those continental types wanting cold snowy Winters and hot Summers. Being in Kent it's probably as close (literally) one can get without leaving this country. The climate is still nowhere as good (IMO) as Mainland Europe, but acceptable when considering non-weather life aspects; family, friends, language, work etc etc.

We benefit from North Sea snow showers but inland enough to escape the nagging sea breeze especially in Spring. We tend to get the best of Summer heat and/or thunderstorms and don't bear the brunt of storms helping Autumn colours. This is all averages of course weighing up balances over time. The place to be this year seems to be Scotland and NI, which had snow last winter and a good summer!

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Posted
  • Location: Islington, C. London.
  • Weather Preferences: Cold winters and cool summers.
  • Location: Islington, C. London.
58 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

Would 2020 have ended up dull? True, April and May were very sunny (wonderful timing) and March and September moderately so, but the rest of the year seemed dull to very dull.

Agree 2021 is even worse though. I think April has been the only sunnier than average month so far in this area?

2020 was exceptionally sunny in many areas image.thumb.png.b7c27a76e6ee1c04511e941974203fce.png

As for 2021, I imagine Scotland is trending sunnier than average while the south is probably trending notably duller than average.

image.thumb.png.851ab4d61d2f74fd4497c9b54b4b57ff.pngimage.thumb.png.ba1e806d4d80c94214342ead02a29e57.pngimage.thumb.png.3eac8842d9901e8de05cc016f0314ef8.png

Maps suggest that much of the south may be heading for their dullest year since pre-2001. Perhaps the dullest since 1998, though we're not through the year yet.

 

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Posted
  • Location: Hampshire
  • Weather Preferences: Bright weather. Warm sunny thundery summers, short cold winters.
  • Location: Hampshire
1 hour ago, LetItSnow! said:

2020 was exceptionally sunny in many areas image.thumb.png.b7c27a76e6ee1c04511e941974203fce.png

As for 2021, I imagine Scotland is trending sunnier than average while the south is probably trending notably duller than average.

image.thumb.png.851ab4d61d2f74fd4497c9b54b4b57ff.pngimage.thumb.png.ba1e806d4d80c94214342ead02a29e57.pngimage.thumb.png.3eac8842d9901e8de05cc016f0314ef8.png

Maps suggest that much of the south may be heading for their dullest year since pre-2001. Perhaps the dullest since 1998, though we're not through the year yet.

 

I'm amazed 2020 was sunnier than average across much of the south, though I do note that a good deal of coastal Hampshire looks more average.

I'd guess most of that was down entirely to the exceptional April and May, plus the somewhat sunnier than average March and September? Certainly winter 19/20, summer 2020, and October 2020 all seemed very dull, and by all accounts Nov and Dec too (though was out of the country).

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Posted
  • Location: Islington, C. London.
  • Weather Preferences: Cold winters and cool summers.
  • Location: Islington, C. London.
3 minutes ago, Summer8906 said:

I'm amazed 2020 was sunnier than average across much of the south, though I do note that a good deal of coastal Hampshire looks more average.

I'd guess most of that was down entirely to the exceptional April and May, plus the somewhat sunnier than average March and September? Certainly winter 19/20, summer 2020, and October 2020 all seemed very dull, and by all accounts Nov and Dec too (though was out of the country).

Without wanting to get too off topic, the result is largely due to the spring but the winter was actually much sunnier than average in most eastern districts and despite the summer being notably duller than average (notably in Wales and the NE) it was still slightly sunnier than average in the southeast. Autumn was moderately dull in most places but only the south coast saw widespread large deficits (people forget Sep 2020 was very sunny).

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Posted
  • Location: Guildford, Surrey
  • Weather Preferences: Hot, dry & sunny
  • Location: Guildford, Surrey

Lot's of chatter on twitter about upcoming colder weather but it doesn't look too far from average for London at the moment.

Highs of 10 and lows of 4 are not unusual for November. Hopefully it trends colder... much colder! 

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Posted
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl
47 minutes ago, Stabilo19 said:

Lot's of chatter on twitter about upcoming colder weather but it doesn't look too far from average for London at the moment.

Highs of 10 and lows of 4 are not unusual for November. Hopefully it trends colder... much colder! 

I guess compared to most recent Novembers it is a cold start to the month forecast. Can't remember the last cold start to November... nope none spring to mind. Any notably cold weather in November normally occurs second half of the month. Not saying on course for any notably cold weather start to the month but quite unusual to see colder than average temperatures and at the start of the month these will be lower against running mean that if happened at the end. November is a notably cooling month.. just like October, but October this year hasn't seen a downward trend at all. The change will be notable.

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Posted
  • Location: Hampshire
  • Weather Preferences: Bright weather. Warm sunny thundery summers, short cold winters.
  • Location: Hampshire
3 hours ago, Stabilo19 said:

Lot's of chatter on twitter about upcoming colder weather but it doesn't look too far from average for London at the moment.

Highs of 10 and lows of 4 are not unusual for November. Hopefully it trends colder... much colder! 

A high of 10 is a lot colder than we've been used to though, last time we had widespread highs of 10 was April. So far we've been used to about 14 as the absolute lowest.

Also I think the mean max for the month nowadays is about 11, which would be typical for midmonth, so its about 2 degrees down on the norm for the time of year.

Edited by Summer8906
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Posted
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset
  • Weather Preferences: Continental winters & summers.
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset
On 26/10/2021 at 17:51, damianslaw said:

I guess compared to most recent Novembers it is a cold start to the month forecast. Can't remember the last cold start to November... nope none spring to mind. Any notably cold weather in November normally occurs second half of the month. Not saying on course for any notably cold weather start to the month but quite unusual to see colder than average temperatures and at the start of the month these will be lower against running mean that if happened at the end. November is a notably cooling month.. just like October, but October this year hasn't seen a downward trend at all. The change will be notable.

I think one has to go back to 2006 for a chilly start to November. A northerly set in through Halloween then a cold clear high pressure settled in for the first seven days. Of course, we all know how the rest of the month panned out... ???

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Posted
  • Location: Wildwood, Stafford 104m asl
  • Weather Preferences: obviously snow!
  • Location: Wildwood, Stafford 104m asl
2 minutes ago, Andy Bown said:

I don’t get all the excitement in the Model thread. Surely it’s a recipe for cold rain! 4 weeks too soon.

liked by many though, 5 degrees and rain! I'm more excited about next 2 days, maybe high as 19 degrees and min of 15

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Posted
  • Location: Maidstone, Kent
  • Weather Preferences: Anything below 0c or above 20c. Also love a good thunderstorm!
  • Location: Maidstone, Kent

I'm cautious of cool / cold spells in November. 2019, 2013 and as you mention MP-R, 2006. Those winters were quite frankly awful if seasonal weather is your thing!

Now of course we've had good winters following cold weather in November, as with mild Novembers, but it's still too early to talk about signs of winter. Not for another few weeks anyway!

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Posted
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset
  • Weather Preferences: Continental winters & summers.
  • Location: Cleeve, North Somerset
On 26/10/2021 at 21:08, Bradley in Kent said:

I'm cautious of cool / cold spells in November. 2019, 2013 and as you mention MP-R, 2006. Those winters were quite frankly awful if seasonal weather is your thing!

Now of course we've had good winters following cold weather in November, as with mild Novembers, but it's still too early to talk about signs of winter. Not for another few weeks anyway!

Of course 2006 wasn’t actually a cold November at all, it was just a transient chilly spell in an otherwise mild autumn. 2019 and 2013 on the other hand.... Either way, the winters all turned out cack.

I’d rather a November like 2005 personally.

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1 hour ago, MP-R said:

I think one has to go back to 2006 for a chilly start to November. A northerly set in through Halloween then a cold clear high pressure settled in for the first seven days. Of course, we all know how the rest of the month panned out... ???

Ah here 2006 only had cool nights, days were mostly normal but nights were cool, near freezing or just above. Think 2012 was better for a cooler start to November here where I am, also I had October snow ❄️ in 2012. And here it looks like the beginning to November 2012 was better than 2006, and went below freezing at one point. Also end of November 2012 was quite cold here too

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