Summer 2021: Moans, Groans, Ramps and Banter

[kold weather]

17 minutes ago, Alderc said:

Correct 

 

@markyo Even today its a pretty close run thing.

Norwich has gotten upto 14c today, on the 21st December it had a max of 13c, indeed the 22nd had a max of 14 due to a very mild overnight period. Whilst its very much limited region that could say that, the fact anywhere can say that is pretty interesting.

That is pretty crazy when you think about it!

[East Lancs Rain]

Looks like things could go from bad to worse in the south next week!

 

 

[kold weather]

8 minutes ago, East Lancs Rain said:

Very likely to happen in a maritime climate. June 2021 will still end up being a much warmer month than December though, by about 10°C. Average CET for December is about 5°C, average CET for June is about 14°C. That’s a big difference. Our climate is not as seasonless as some people think.

The thing is we 100% have seasons, but everything is being adjusted upwards from the base.

In the summer, and indeed probably most of spring and Autumn it doesn't really make that much of a tangible difference, but in the winter that extra 1c increase makes a huge practical difference to the weather. Its the difference between a horrid sleety mess and 6 inches of snow (we saw a great example of that in the SE earlier in the winter). Whilst in reality we've never been *that* snowy, it probably ois fair to say that in the south in particular snow is becoming less common, at least settling wise.

So we are going from a base of say 2-10 snow days a year to 0-3 snow days and lots more rain. Its the rain and the lack of snow/frost that makes winter just feel like an extension of autumn so often these days, even if as you say there is clearly a temperature drop. In real weather terms, the difference between 14c and rain in October/April and 7c and rain in Dec/January is pretty meaningless and is why people think we broadly are pretty static in terms of seasonal changes. The difference between 0c and 5c in winter is pretty huge in real weather terms

[Storm mad]

We'll doubtlessly be moaning about 38 C in August... 

[Josh Rubio]

Travelling south on the train from Leeds to London this evening, there’s a huge difference in weather conditions as you travel further South. From Leeds to around Newark, it was pretty much blue skies all the way. Heading South from Grantham it has clouded over significantly, so I can see why there is such controversy as to why people are disagreeing with each other, from a IMBY perspective. 

[markyo]

1 hour ago, NEVES SCREAMER said:

It was in some places down South. I clearly remember the BBC weather man putting the contrasting temps up on screen. Something like 13.5c in December and 13.4c in June.

I stand corrected by .1 of a degree. The feel of those 2 days would have been very different though due to the difference in light levels and length of day,there is no comparison.

[Bradley in Kent]

On 22/06/2021 at 09:59, al78 said:

I find that very surprising, do you have a reference for that? If anything, the Arctic should have been colder pre-anthropogenic climate change, which would lead to a stronger polar jet stream. I have my doubts the UK really had a continental climate 300 years ago, my grandmother used to claim the same pre WWII, the truth is only the memorable seasons stick in the mind 50 years later, i.e. hot summers and cold winters. To get that sort of climate would require winters dominated by a negative NAO and summers dominated by a positive NAO.

Hi @al78 I've only just seen your reply but funnily enough the topic has sort of come back round again talking about seasons. I should've probably used the terms 'colder' and 'warmer' as in reality they have never been truly continental. 

I've attached a graph of how our seasons have changed (found online) temperature wise.

My non expert interpretation is that the Atlantic is having more of an influence now especially in Autumn and Winter but like any record lots of anomalies. 

It definitely appears we used to have a bigger seasonal variation as we still managed some decent (hot) Summers back then whilst managing cold (not freezing) Winters.

It's all trends however since as you can see there are some howler Summers in there with a few mild Winters.

I make you right though that elderly relatives are not reliable if you want realistic weather records!

In spells like now (for Kent), I like to look at the worst years as it makes me feel better! 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, markyo said:

I stand corrected by .1 of a degree. The feel of those 2 days would have been very different though due to the difference in light levels and length of day,there is no comparison.

Obviously yes on the light in the early evening however I went shopping in the middle of that Monday last week and a full on coat was needed. The difference is the June feels worse because you’re expecting it to be low 20s (as norm) whereas whether it’s 8C or 13C in December it’s still cold. Also with the sea temps still at usually 11-13C in  December around here they were only a degree or two lower than in June so the air reallY wouldn’t feel any different. 

[Mapantz]

27 minutes ago, markyo said:

there is no comparison

There is a comparison, it's there in black & white. One recorded a higher maximum temperature than the other.. 

[cheeky_monkey]

2 hours ago, markyo said:

 

Canada weather: Dozens dead as heatwave shatters records

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

---

The country has recorded its highest ever temperature - 49.6C (121.3F) - for the third day in a row.

Now that weather is to moan about.

Im in the middle of all this and im not moaning..its not something you see everyday ...to experience over 40c that's not in a holiday environment is something too remember..i have experienced -45c and +42c in the space of four months in the same place..not many can say that im sure 

[TheOgre]

2021 has been a crap year, one of the worst I’d say.

January was cold with potential for snow but failed to deliver for many areas.

April was frigid.

May was abhorrently wet, cold and dull.

June started well but has turned into a cloud fest. 
And July is looking the same…

[East Lancs Rain]

4 hours ago, Alderc said:

Obviously yes on the light in the early evening however I went shopping in the middle of that Monday last week and a full on coat was needed. The difference is the June feels worse because you’re expecting it to be low 20s (as norm) whereas whether it’s 8C or 13C in December it’s still cold. Also with the sea temps still at usually 11-13C in  December around here they were only a degree or two lower than in June so the air reallY wouldn’t feel any different. 

13°C in December feels very mild. 13°C in June usually feels very cool, but may feel relatively warm if the sun is out.

4 hours ago, Mapantz said:

There is a comparison, it's there in black & white. One recorded a higher maximum temperature than the other.. 

Different synoptic setup, different airmass, different sun strength, different wind chill, and different expectations (physchological). It’s futile trying to compare a day in June to a day in December, even if the temperature is the same/very similar, it’s still going to feel very different. Temperature isn’t everything.

3 hours ago, cheeky_monkey said:

Im in the middle of all this and im not moaning..its not something you see everyday ...to experience over 40c that's not in a holiday environment is something too remember..i have experienced -45c and +42c in the space of four months in the same place..not many can say that im sure 

How does -45 and 42°C feel?

Edited June 30, 2021 by East Lancs Rain

[Mapantz]

2 minutes ago, East Lancs Rain said:

Different synoptic setup, different airmass, different sun strength, different wind chill, and different expectations (physchological). It’s futile trying to compare a day in June to a day in December, even if the temperature is the same/very similar, it’s still going to feel very different. Temperature isn’t everything.

In this case, it is. 

The measurement was the air temperature, nothing else, not what you 'feel'.

It's quite straightforward..

[East Lancs Rain]

10 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

In this case, it is. 

The measurement was the air temperature, nothing else, not what you 'feel'.

It's quite straightforward..

Okay pussycat, whatever you say... Has your owner given you dog meat instead of felix today?

[Weather Enthusiast91]

Yes, 2021 hasn't really been all that great so far in terms of weather. 

Jan and Feb were cold and had plenty of opportunities to produce a reasonable amount of snow for many areas. Most places just received a dusting.

March wasn't too bad and gave us quite a variety.

April was dry and sunny as well as cool; quite a frost riddled month. It was a bad month for gardeners and farmers.

May was quite the contrast to April rainfall wise and we went from one extreme to the other. It was a relatively cool month with not much sign of warming up, until the last few days.

The first half June was great but it went down hill from around the middle of the month.

The first half of July is looking to be a continuation of the second half of June. But we shall have to wait and see how the month as a whole pans out!

Edited July 1, 2021 by Weather Enthusiast91

[Guest]

5 hours ago, East Lancs Rain said:

13°C in December feels very mild. 13°C in June usually feels very cool, but may feel relatively warm if the sun is out.

Different synoptic setup, different airmass, different sun strength, different wind chill, and different expectations (physchological). It’s futile trying to compare a day in June to a day in December, even if the temperature is the same/very similar, it’s still going to feel very different. Temperature isn’t everything.

How does -45 and 42°C feel?

I think the only thing with that is as 13C (and probably anything under 16C) is only possible down here in summer under  heavy cloud cover and usually continuous rain so tbh the comment about the sun is almost completely irrelevant. 13C is cold at any time of the year whether it’s 8C under average at the end of June or 4C above average in December. 

[mb018538]

11 hours ago, East Lancs Rain said:

Looks like things could go from bad to worse in the south next week!

 

 

Good job I didn't post a link to this! Maybe if someone else says it, it won't sound so bad.

[weatherguru14]

 looking like another nice day here.  

[Guest]

It was a nice start here but the cloud has already filled in. Banking on today and tomorrow being decent as looks naff for at least the following ten days.

[Azazel]

2021 has been utterly repulsive in every possible way.

 

[ChannelThunder]

33 minutes ago, Azazel said:

2021 has been utterly repulsive in every possible way.

 

No end in sight either, but you're not allowed to say that in the model thread, because the charts 12 days away always look great!

[damianslaw]

I've a different perspective on the first half of 2021. Overall it's been quite ok in my book. January was cold as it should be. We missed out on a heavy snowfall but had a few light ones and the fells were coveted for most of the month. 

Very much enjoyed early Feb very cold and frosty. Rest of Feb not great though rather mild and damp. 

March was mixed very wet but a warm end.

I enjoyed April for the dry sunny weather but yes rather cold for my liking.

Only month so far disappointed was May often our best month. A washout this year and very cool. Payback for the dry sunny April.

June has been very good. Barely any rain. A bit dull at times but consistently warm.

[Nick L]

Well, the first third aside, June was woeful. And July isn't looking much better.

[mountain shadow]

June was great up here in Northern Ireland.  Very little rain and lots of dry weather and sunshine. 

Next week looks horrendous though.

[al78]

14 hours ago, East Lancs Rain said:

Very likely to happen in a maritime climate. June 2021 will still end up being a much warmer month than December though, by about 10°C. Average CET for December is about 5°C, average CET for June is about 14°C. That’s a big difference. Our climate is not as seasonless as some people think.

Very likely to happen? How many times has it happened in the last 100 years?

If you are looking at monthly averages, a record cold June will be warmer than a record mild December, but it was a comparison on specific days that was made, and it is daft to have a winter solstice day warmer than the following summer solstice day and I suspect it isn't very likely at all. More likely would be to compare the coolest June day with the mildest previous December day and find the June day is cooler.

The climate isn't seasonless, but long periods of an individual year can seem like that. A wet autumn followed by a mild winter will give almost six months of the same weather.