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Spring 2021: Moans, Groans, Ramps and Banter.


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Posted
  • Location: Sedgley 225metres above sea level
  • Weather Preferences: Summer heatwaves and electrical storms, and fidgid Arctic type winters
  • Location: Sedgley 225metres above sea level
    8 minutes ago, Tamara said:

    Yes indeed. It gets forgotten that there are people who view and partake of this site who are actually also ordinary members of the public and not just 'weather enthusiasts'.  Its good to be a weather enthusiast, otherwise why be here? But at the same time  surely retain a grip of the outside world and its outside perceptions and remembering that we all come from such a place - and not some detached idealistic fanaticism time-warp.

    Quite apart from having horizons in another country, and a geographical switch of interest, a main reason for distancing from the parochial preference biases within this site is the Neanderthal and tribal attitude towards the subject of meteorology - that would be far better suited to the bearpit of a testosterone fuelled sports bar.  Recent posts on this thread, along with the traditional caveman brawl in the MOD thread, are very good examples of this.

    There is, alas,  too little interest in the 'hows and whys' and far too much of a repellent, unsavoury and divisive 'war' over weather preferences. Too often, its a macho club membership/playground, rather then grown up weather discussion.  Objectivity can be a redundant and wasted pursuit within this context. Unless of course it just happens to accord with the tribal preference.

    I used to get excited about the prospect of cold weather and snow (at least in winter). But equally always have had (and now to an even greater extent) a large appreciation for sunshine and warm weather - at any time of year but most especially from Spring right through to Autumn  Also, following a period of thunderstorm phobia due to one very severe storm that created a lot of local damage within just a mile away and was a truly frightening experience - a return has come to marvelling at the spectacle of an evening light-show while enjoying some wine on a summer evening (just as an example)  The point is, that any preferences are valid as long as no-one attempts to impose them on anyone. And, as in my own case, its also fine of course to change those preferences at any time.

    But here comes one of the main problems, at least in my own experience :

    Curiosity has grown about the actual weather patterns over successive years  (the how's and whys) and began overtaking the increasing boredom with just staring at charts waiting for a weather preference which too often than not does not come on its own - and which inevitably then leads to having to wade through pages of emotional tantrums over 'weather failures' and the associated bickering that comes with it.. 

    Through the same period of time,  appreciation and reminder of the value of being outdoors more and more - and how Mother Nature better speaks kindly to (just for one example) my own love of plants and the garden has increased appreciation further still of the spring and summer seasons with the long days and warm evenings that are possible - at the same time as long dark days in winter and lack of sunlight overtook and eroded enjoyment of any previous pursuit of the magic of snowfall.   That doesn't mean anyone who thinks differently is wrong - but significantly in this respect, its the tribal 'warlike' attitude, from too many (not all by any means) of the cold weather legions which became a push away from wanting association with it  - and amplified the natural reasons for further increase in appreciation for Spring and Summer.

     Natural enthusiasm for a weather type is fine, but only goes so far - some (not all) try to disguise and at the same time kid themselves that they are not actually instead displaying undue and excessive fanaticism and obsession. Fanaticism and obsession is characteristic of intolerance and apparent contempt of anyone who thinks differently and manifests as wholly unreasonable attempts to dictate and impose manic views ,ideals and preferences. Hence the Neanderthal 'warlike' attitudes that are common-place. 

    As I see it, a weather preference coming to reality is a bonus to such a pastime of looking at how's and whys of meteorology. That, rather than a preference bias being the be all and end all - which too often leads to disappointment and frustration if too much dependence is attached to it and there is no stepping way from a computer to break the mindless spell of it all. There is much more to life after all than chasing computer model fantasies.. It is somewhat symbolic of such parochial tribalism though, that such weather preference symbolism has become attached of late with the fairly imminent  re-opening of the pub!  That fulfils the sport bar analogy of earlier. 

    You are probably better to sit tight and wait for the weather to change - and then just enjoy it on your own terms and not worry about those who see it as 'boring' or somehow not exciting enough to make you a member of the so called 'enthusiast club'  Its pointless trying to reply to, or reason with, such tribe members  - because, as you and one or two others have observed, there are some quite aggressive primates and they are probably best left to learn basic manners in respect.

    Yes Tams we are all caveman induced coldies on the MOD thread..You can't get blaming us for the fact our ancestors gave us that obnoxious primitive gene! In all honesty I think the place is pretty well tolerated,with many a nice individual,and also plenty of good humour threw in! It's just a case of not taking everything so personal in life...enjoy the moment,and embrace the cold! Its coming for you Tamara....there is no escape! 🤣

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    Posted
  • Location: St Neots, previously Billericay & Brentwood
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, gales, all extreme weather really!
  • Location: St Neots, previously Billericay & Brentwood
    On 01/04/2021 at 18:40, LRD said:

    So those who don't want this cold spell come to the right place - the moans thread - to moan about it and then get moaned at for moaning in the moan thread. Good grief

    I dared disagree with someone in the model thread a few days ago, suggesting the cold might not come off (hey, I was wrong - **** happens) and got jumped on like a ton of bricks. I'm interested in the weather and like to see it warm in the summer with proper thunderstorms and cold and snowy from mid Nov - mid March but some folk take it all far too seriously. 

    I hope the mods don't mind me posting this in the moans thread but a BBC report on the incoming cold weather:

    _117803993_hi066537984.jpg
    WWW.BBC.CO.UK

    After this week's warm temperatures, colder weather over Easter could even bring snow in some areas.

    One quote from a Met Office spokesperson - "For Easter Monday, the daily high forecast for London is 7C (44.6F) and 6C (42.8F) in Leeds and Manchester"

    That is really not that unusual for April. Cold, yes, but not out of the ordinary. Reading the model thread you'd believe there were polar bears about to start roaming the 'arctic landscape' of the UK. I get people getting excited and I like cold and snow in winter but some just go a bit OTT. I've just had another mediocre winter IMBY but, reading the model thread in the winter, you'd think we were entering a new ice age at times. This hype was especially prevalent in January

    The irony being that when/if a lot of folk in Southern England get not-a-lot (of what they think they're getting) next week they'll be in this thread moaning

    It's a moans thread for weather not for moaning about other people and their interests or did I get that wrong? I'm not looking forward to yet another dry and cold boring spell, even more so in April, I'd prefer it warm now, including for plants and the like but year in year out the "what's wrong with people" gets thrown around. If someone wants to be passionate about potential or actual weather that's their look out and they should be free to do so and not be guilt tripped. If this thread is also supposed to be for moaning about other people (don't we have enough of that everywhere else these days?)then I have the wrong end of the stick.

    Edited by James1979
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    Posted
  • Location: Wildwood, Stafford 104m asl
  • Weather Preferences: obviously snow!
  • Location: Wildwood, Stafford 104m asl

    Vile day again, E'ly winds are the worst, wonder when or if North sea filth will clear

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    Posted
  • Location: Bedfordshire
  • Weather Preferences: Warm summers with thunderstorms, stormy or fog/frost autumns, cold winters
  • Location: Bedfordshire
    2 hours ago, James1979 said:

    It's a moans thread for weather not for moaning about other people and their interests or did I get that wrong? I'm not looking forward to yet another dry and cold boring spell, even more so in April, I'd prefer it warm now, including for plants and the like but year in year out the "what's wrong with people" gets thrown around. If someone wants to be passionate about potential or actual weather that's their look out and they should be free to do so and not be guilt tripped. If this thread is also supposed to be for moaning about other people (don't we have enough of that everywhere else these days?)then I have the wrong end of the stick.

    Where have I moaned about other people's preferences? I might have mentioned something once but, honestly, I don't give a flying one about other people's preferences. I sometimes can't quite get my head around them but I never criticise anyone for wanting what they want even if it might not be my cup of tea. I only worry about my preferences. 

    The only argument I've been making this past week is that I would not have, personally, enjoyed the conditions that the more dramatic of model runs were showing because, where I live, we were NEVER going to get the wintry conditions some were predicting - it would have been a right mess of cold rain and hail maybe with a touch of sleet. Or even worse, just slate grey skies and nothing else. Now things have moved away from those more dramatic runs. For many in inland areas - and south of a line from the Wash to, say, Manchester - and for those on the south coast it'll be a case of folk wondering what all the fuss was about. A bit of frost and a chilly breeze. Scotland will still probably do ok (if snow in April's your thing) and some coastal areas in both east and west

    This incoming cold 'spell' being watered down would have disappointed me if it was Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb or even early March so I get that folk will be disappointed that it's not looking as dramatic as it did at one stage. I'd never gloat about the disappointment of others 'cos I get it and gloating would be a rather ****ty thing to do. The only friendly advice I'd give (and I really don't mean to be patronising when I say this because that is absolutely NOT my intention) is something I've learned to do since being into this hobby is to try to keep a lid on expectations no matter how difficult that is sometimes - as most of us can and do get swept along with the hype. It's natural

    Edited by LRD
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    Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
    2 hours ago, LRD said:

    it would have been a right mess of cold rain and hail maybe with a touch of sleet. Or even worse, just slate grey skies and nothing else.

    The more extreme model runs would not have brought "cold rain and hail maybe with a touch of sleet" with 850hPa temperatures of around -10C.  To be fair, it's possible that in your case you might be seeing maxima of 6-8C and overlooking the fact that snow can fall in a showery northerly in April with temperatures as high as 8C because of the shallowness of the warm solar heated layer near the surface and low relative humidities, so I'll stop short of automatically jumping to a conclusion here.

    However, comments like that often reflect a bias along the lines of, "I don't want cold weather after mid-March, so therefore a northerly after some arbitrary date in mid-March, no matter how intense it is, will only bring cold rain and hail maybe with a touch of sleet", where essentially the strong emotive preference for or against a particular weather type biases one's sense of objectivity.  Of course, it can happen the other way, it is also inaccurate to assume that a spring northerly will always bring plenty of sunshine, snow and hail showers and impressive cloud formations - some of them do indeed bring grey rainy sleety weather.  But the northerly showing for Monday/Tuesday looks far too potent to deliver cold rain.

    Edited by Thundery wintry showers
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    Posted
  • Location: Bedfordshire
  • Weather Preferences: Warm summers with thunderstorms, stormy or fog/frost autumns, cold winters
  • Location: Bedfordshire
    1 hour ago, Thundery wintry showers said:

    The more extreme model runs would not have brought "cold rain and hail maybe with a touch of sleet" with 850hPa temperatures of around -10C.  To be fair, it's possible that in your case you might be seeing maxima of 6-8C and overlooking the fact that snow can fall in a showery northerly in April with temperatures as high as 8C because of the shallowness of the warm solar heated layer near the surface and low relative humidities, so I'll stop short of automatically jumping to a conclusion here.

    However, comments like that often reflect a bias along the lines of, "I don't want cold weather after mid-March, so therefore a northerly after some arbitrary date in mid-March, no matter how intense it is, will only bring cold rain and hail maybe with a touch of sleet", where essentially the strong emotive preference for or against a particular weather type biases one's sense of objectivity.  Of course, it can happen the other way, it is also inaccurate to assume that a spring northerly will always bring plenty of sunshine, snow and hail showers and impressive cloud formations - some of them do indeed bring grey rainy sleety weather.  But the northerly showing for Monday/Tuesday looks far too potent to deliver cold rain.

    So, first, I've had to defend myself against inaccurate claims that I've had a pop at folk for liking cold at this time of the year and now I'm getting you claiming that I don't know what conditions a certain weather pattern will MOST LIKELY result in, in a place where I've lived most of my life

    I know where I live and I do know what I've experienced in previous cold April spells. I tend to find previous, lived experiences to be as much - if not more - of a guide than what a computer is showing!! I know what is MOST LIKELY to happen. Yeah I know I said NEVER in my previous post but that was being dramatic, which is the norm for on here when cold is shown in the outputs. No need to be so literal. I don't know how much more OBJECTIVE I can get than remembering past experiences.

    Having said that I dunno when the last time -10 uppers hit this part of the world in April (they will hang around here for about 36-48 hours if current forecasts are correct) and I can't be bothered to check so, ok, maybe you're right and maybe this spell might have produced 5 or 10 minutes of snow on 2 or 3 occasions through showery activity, here, if the instability hadn't eventually been killed off across the model suite... but I can tell you that snow or snow showers in April in this part of the world is a very, very rare thing indeed even in a N'ly or NE'ly airstream and that the type of weather that is produced here, most often, in a cold April spell just leaves me cold (in more ways than one). Even hailstorms and thunderstorms in a cool April spell are rare here now. If that was the MOST LIKELY scenario for here, I'd have been cheering it on. But it wasn't based both on modelling and history. So, with that in mind, it'd be madness for anyone to expect a different result to what they usually experience in a certain situation. That's all I'm doing here

    As for the arbitrary point - it stands to reason that beyond mid-March then the chances of snow are getting less and less because the sun's getting stronger. And because the sun's getting stronger so the chances of something properly wintry is very unlikely here and the probable outcome is a bit of an unpleasant mess. Again, based on personal, local experience. Also, on this point, I think you'll also see me comment in the model thread that even I was getting intrigued about what might be produced even if I didn't fancy the cold. It was starting to look interesting and I was sort of looking forward to what we'd have seen but then it moderated (precipitation and instability, that is, rather than the cold). The squall line coming down from the north doesn't even look like producing anything now and that's what I was especially intrigued by. So I was trying to be pretty open-minded, which a lot of cold-weather zealots on here aren't

    The bit of your quote I've bolded - yes, agree and that was an important part of my overall point. I'm struggling to understand why what I'm saying is so controversial and getting people all angry

    Edited by LRD
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    Posted
  • Location: NR Worthing SE Coast
  • Location: NR Worthing SE Coast

    This forum is strange simetimes, I thought it  is a weather enthusiasts forum, but half the time its full of posts moaning about how cold it's going to become in April  or whenever, or its too hot in summer etc,. 

    You would think people would embrace it when we get these extreme rare conditions, like upper air below minus 10 in April, but more people seem to moaning about it!!, 

     

    Edited by SLEETY
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    Posted
  • Location: Bedfordshire
  • Weather Preferences: Warm summers with thunderstorms, stormy or fog/frost autumns, cold winters
  • Location: Bedfordshire
    45 minutes ago, SLEETY said:

    This forumis strange simetimes I thought it  is a weather enthusiasts forum, but half time its full of posts moaning about how cold it's going to become in April  or whenever, or its too hot in summer etc,. 

    You would think people would embrace it when we get these extreme rare conditions, like upper air below minus 10 in April, but more people seem to moaning about it!! 

     

    So? This is the moans thread. That's what this is for. Plenty of people are in here when another phantom cold spell fails in winter but that's more acceptable, of course. That's 'good' moaning!

    image.thumb.png.b31fdb62e90beebc16a6f7c8e0f74640.png

    I think you've missed my point, too. If this upcoming 2 or 3 day wonder was genuinely going to produce some unusual conditions (not even snow necessarily but some dramatic cloudscapes and thunder and unusually heavy showery precipitation for example) I'd have, well, not egged it on as such, but I would have been interested in how it panned out, even if I didn't want it. I think I've said that on at least 3 or 4 occasions in this and the model thread. Just think individuals should be free to moan about current or forecast weather in a thread designed to do just that. One member was swarmed over the other day when he dared moan about the incoming cold (which looked like it was going to be much more dramatic then, than it's looking now). I think people took offence that he called those wanting extreme cold now as a bit weird, which he shouldn't have done but I like to think he didn't mean it in quite the way it came across. Lots of nuance gets lost in the written word

    I certainly do not moan about heat in the summer. I just wish we had more electrical storms to accompany the heat

    Also people can't have it both ways. 16c in winter is extreme, I'd say, but would people on this forum, including me, embrace that? Of course not (although some did enjoy and follow the novelty of the very warm spell at the end of Feb 2019 to be fair. But, ordinarily, that would not happen). But then we can come on to this thread to have a good old moan and talk about how we're all hating it being 16c on New Year's Day or whenever

    Edited by LRD
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    Posted
  • Location: Andover, Hampshire
  • Location: Andover, Hampshire

    Can’t wait for this week to be out the way.

    6-8 degrees with a raw northerly wind can get right in the bin. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Poole, Dorset 42m ASL
  • Location: Poole, Dorset 42m ASL

    I wonder what the term "Historic" means in the context of this article? Personally, I cant say that irrespective of 'massive snowfall' in Europe, it'll be much more than anything seen this past winter. Which for down here was a complete none event...

    historic-cold-blast-europe-snow-easter-s
    WWW.SEVERE-WEATHER.EU

    A pattern change for the Easter holidays with a historic Arctic cold blast will impact Europe with damaging frost and massive snow across central parts.

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Islington
  • Weather Preferences: Freezing cold snowy winters & unsettled summers.
  • Location: Islington

    the way i would simply put it is simple. in an age of seeming warming, surely it would be celebrated that you can still get a noticeably cold northerly in april, any time of year even. that’s if you look at it that way... also, i think it’s going to be a case of seeing what happens & model watching. i think a lot of people will be taken by surprise during the next week. only one way to find out though 🕰 

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    Posted
  • Location: Dudley
  • Location: Dudley
    8 hours ago, Azazel said:

    Can’t wait for this week to be out the way.

    6-8 degrees with a raw northerly wind can get right in the bin. 

    Agreed. I hate the cold in January so this is just excruciating.  15c to me is cold but absolutely more palatable than 5c and a northerly gale. Yuk.

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    Posted
  • Location: sheffield
  • Weather Preferences: Basically intresting weather,cold,windy you name it
  • Location: sheffield

    By far one of the most seasonal and welcome outlooks for early spring for a long time, there's plenty of time for heat later in the season. This a proper April, love it plus what fantastic Easter Sunday weather, who can moan at this!

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    I'm torn. I do like my summer in March-June but at the same time we are eating up the March-Sep heat period which is not something I'm sad about.

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    Posted
  • Location: leeds
  • Location: leeds

    It can only get warmer.. I'd prefer the warmer spells in Summer than in Spring.  I find warm Aprils often ruin summers. It just seems that way to me any way..I know theres probably no rhyme or reason to it. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet
  • Location: Leeds/Bradford border, 185 metres above sea level, around 600 feet

    I detest summer heat, more humidity.

    I basically like summer from March-June, Autumn from July-Oct and winter from Nov-Feb.

    Edited by summer blizzard
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    Posted
  • Location: Stoke on Trent
  • Location: Stoke on Trent
    1 hour ago, Jon Snow said:

    Now look here chaps, I really don’t care that it’s only Orkney & Shetland that witness 504 dam thicknesses at midnight or thereabouts according to the Gfs 6z operational..504 dam (-15 T850’s)..in early April is off the scale EPIC..for sure it would be epic in winter too..I’ve always dreamed of 492 dam..call me crazy but I’m just you’re average weather enthusiast which is why I’m part of the Netweather community!..why else would I be here if I wasn’t interested in weather or weather extremes?..go figure.. 🤔 😉 🥶 ❄️ 

    E83D8DF2-E565-44E5-A9B1-1127EC860D03.thumb.png.14c5b45989afa041ebbff9563dbeffa8.png93E4756F-775E-413E-847D-5BA9ABC4857F.thumb.png.4d65fdd2f7beb023901f4278ef59bb6e.png

    Must admit unless I'm getting a lower temp than the record of minus 20 in Stoke or 8 inches of Snow, I just don't get why this is going be exciting. Lol

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    Posted
  • Location: Wildwood, Stafford 104m asl
  • Weather Preferences: obviously snow!
  • Location: Wildwood, Stafford 104m asl
    On 03/04/2021 at 15:43, Azazel said:

    Can’t wait for this week to be out the way.

    6-8 degrees with a raw northerly wind can get right in the bin. 

    At least it keeps the uneducated thick young adults in, another one today approached me, saying I'm gonna knock you out, and swear words, this town does have thick ugly looking young males, but mainly when it's warm/sunny and weekends

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    Posted
  • Location: sheffield
  • Weather Preferences: Basically intresting weather,cold,windy you name it
  • Location: sheffield
    56 minutes ago, summer blizzard said:

    I detest summer heat, more humidity.

    I suspect many agree, especially with the humidity, how anybody enjoys that is beyond me.

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    Posted
  • Location: Andover, Hampshire
  • Location: Andover, Hampshire
    1 hour ago, markyo said:

    I suspect many agree, especially with the humidity, how anybody enjoys that is beyond me.

    Even I struggle with high humidity. 
     

    mainly because I don’t have the privilege of working in an air conditioned office.

    Its OK until about lunchtime but the afternoons are brutal. 

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    Posted
  • Location: Lincoln
  • Location: Lincoln

    Today was cracking, the rest of the week looks terrible, especially with the kids off school, and everywhere shut.  If we were getting 6 inches of snow than that’d be a different matter.  
     

    I always associate April with some decent weather, and it’s a lovely time of the year when the sun comes out. 5 degrees, with a smattering of sleet? No thanks. 

    Edited by HellItsHot
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    Posted
  • Location: Andover, Hampshire
  • Location: Andover, Hampshire

    Strange sort of day today. 
     

    we went out and sat on a hill overlooking where I live and the breeze was really quite chilly but you could feel the strength of the sun which I guess is equivalent to august.

     

    I really do hope this rancid spell doesn’t last too long.

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    Posted
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl

    April is our most fickle month, never knows what it wants to be, can change at a flick of a switch, no other month compared. The arctic is still very cold, and often we see the PV collapse and cold air released from the North Pole. I always think a warm spell in April is a bonus, northerlies and easterlies more likely than any other month other than May.

    It is often our driest month along with May.

    Its not until May arrives I discount the prospects of wintry weather, it can happen in May but tends to be very fleeting and with little potency, unlike April when it can be every bit as potent as a January cold spell.

     

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    Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire

    May snow has been a noticeable casualty of the warming climate since the 1990s.  Until 1997, widespread sleet and snow in May was fairly common, for example in 1982, 1987, 1993, 1995, 1997 and to a lesser extent in 1989 and 1996.  The most widespread of those was probably 1997 when sleet and snow fell even in the far south, and accumulated early on the 7th in some lowland parts of Wales and north-west England.  The most famous example in the past half-century was in 1979 when snow fell widely on each of the first six days of May, with even low-lying parts of the south-west getting a dusting on the ground.  Since 1997 the only particularly widespread example I can think of was on 11 May 2010, when sleet and snow showers fell quite widely from the Midlands northwards. 

    The Mays of 2019 and 2020 both produced similar synoptics to those of mid-May 1995 for a time, but in both cases widespread lowland snowfall was confined to the northern half of Scotland with only localised reports of sleet/snow to low levels elsewhere.

    We may need a fair bit more warming to kill off April snowfalls, as statistically sleet/snow falling is slightly more common in April than in November in many parts of the UK, and we had fairly widespread snow showers towards the end of April in 2016 and 2017, as well as a surprise snowfall in north-east Scotland in late April 2015.

     

    Edited by Thundery wintry showers
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