South East, London and East Anglia regional discussion - 8th February onwards

[Mark]

14 minutes ago, D.V.R said:

Maybe someone can explain it then cos i'm confused as it shouldn't be melting at that temp. We have had no melting on roads and surfaces that hasn't been gritted.

I would say that even though the freezing point of water is 0c, to keep water frozen takes a colder temperature, especially if snow falls onto something that isn't pure, or even ever so slightly above 0c. That's why your freezer is at about -18c (though I'm aware that's also to freeze things quickly). That snow came from a much colder place than the ground.

Typing out loud, prepared to be corrected.

 

edit: in hindsight, that wasn't a great post, sorry

Edited February 8, 2021 by Mark

[SlimJ]

7 minutes ago, craigore said:

This cant be tight surely.

BBC app giving me heavy snow tnrow for several hrs ??

But only less than 15% risk!

[kold weather]

The models have had a shocker with this little area of snow that has developed. I don't think a single one got that area develop at all. Thats obviously a good reason why you need to keep a close eye on these things!

Flow at the moment is NE, indeed its closer to NNE for the moment before it shifts back to ENE later this evening. and we need to watch obviously in the Thames region from 7-9pm onwards to tomorrow morning. 

 

[PiscesStar]

1 minute ago, TROY said:

Love this proper drifting snow, every now and then it blows straight off my back roof into the garden, time to sit in front of the roaring log fire and put the christmas lights on my Christmas tree in the back garden, my neighbour must think im nuts.

At least they're leaving some other poor individual alone!! 

[Angus Mcoatup]

Hi, for all those who can’t work out why the snow is melting, it’s to do with the ground temperature,which, when I put thermometer in the ground earlier, it read 2c. I guess that might change in due course.

[Timmytour]

Probably as heavy as I have seen it in this spell....  not making much impact on depth amounts though...

[mb018538]

Ive just got to accept I live in one of the very worst spots for snow in the UK. It just never hits here hard. Always too Far East, north, south or west. Oh well!

[Stu_London]

4 minutes ago, kold weather said:

The models have had a shocker with this little area of snow that has developed. I don't think a single one got that area develop at all. Thats obviously a good reason why you need to keep a close eye on these things!

Flow at the moment is NE, indeed its closer to NNE for the moment before it shifts back to ENE later this evening. and we need to watch obviously in the Thames region from 7-9pm onwards to tomorrow morning. 

 

looks like the estuary may be firing now

[Mizzle]

3 minutes ago, kold weather said:

The models have had a shocker with this little area of snow that has developed. I don't think a single one got that area develop at all. Thats obviously a good reason why you need to keep a close eye on these things!

Flow at the moment is NE, indeed its closer to NNE for the moment before it shifts back to ENE later this evening. and we need to watch obviously in the Thames region from 7-9pm onwards to tomorrow 

So is that good news for us in NE Hants? We've had powder snow for the past hour or so - nice to see after the disappointing all nighter

[Polaris]

1 minute ago, Timmytour said:

Probably as heavy as I have seen it in this spell....  not making much impact on depth amounts though...

Been the heaviest snow here past few hours I’ve seen for a few years. Yet no accumulation with minus temps. 
 

What a waste here of 4 hours of heavy snow. 

[Man With Beard]

4 minutes ago, kold weather said:

The models have had a shocker with this little area of snow that has developed. I don't think a single one got that area develop at all. Thats obviously a good reason why you need to keep a close eye on these things!

Flow at the moment is NE, indeed its closer to NNE for the moment before it shifts back to ENE later this evening. and we need to watch obviously in the Thames region from 7-9pm onwards to tomorrow morning. 

 

I've given up on the models today. We've had continuous light snow most of the day here (nothing much to show for it on the ground, mind), and no model predicted anything at all for my area. Looks similar elsewhere. Such is this type of event!

[Retron]

1 hour ago, Natty68 said:

Yet in Swale, which is normally forgotten, we are swamped with the stuff  

Parts of Swale, anyway - I was working from home today and the 4cm or so of cover hasn't really grown today.

In Sittingbourne though, where my workplace is and where I'll be going tomorrow, it seems there's quite a bit more!

[bluearmy]

@polaris 

can only be ground temps and intensity of snowfall 

a couple, of weeks ago the snow was on the back of a hard frost. The ground temps were well below zero when the snow began to come down. 
I wonder if anyone has a ground thermometer to check what the current ground temps are (where there is no snow or the ground is wet) 

[throwoff]

7 minutes ago, kold weather said:

The models have had a shocker with this little area of snow that has developed. I don't think a single one got that area develop at all. Thats obviously a good reason why you need to keep a close eye on these things!

Flow at the moment is NE, indeed its closer to NNE for the moment before it shifts back to ENE later this evening. and we need to watch obviously in the Thames region from 7-9pm onwards to tomorrow morning. 

 

Come on then, I hear you are the streamer spotter. Give me your thoughts for Gillingham tonight!

[A Wintry Mix]

15 minutes ago, craigore said:

This cant be tight surely.

BBC app giving me heavy snow tnrow for several hrs ??

Same for Minster unsurprisingly, can't believe 10 hours of heavy snow

[Brocken Spectre]

18 minutes ago, D.V.R said:

Maybe someone can explain it then cos i'm confused as it shouldn't be melting at that temp. We have had no melting on roads and surfaces that hasn't been gritted.

This is the explanation of melting snow in below freezing temperatures:

Even when the air temperature is below freezing snow can melt on the ground due to heat from the ground (ground temperature may be higher that air temperature). Also, snow can disappear due to sublimation. In this case, due to low humidity and/or low air pressure, it turns from a solid state directly to a gas without going through the liquid state.

[Mark]

Just now, bluearmy said:

@polaris 

can only be ground temps and intensity of snowfall 

a couple, of weeks ago the snow was on the back of a hard frost. The ground temps were well below zero when the snow began to come down. 
I wonder if anyone has a ground thermometer to check what the current ground temps are (where there is no snow or the ground is wet) 

2c in King's Lynn, according to @Angus Mcoatup

[plmoknijb]

7 minutes ago, Angus Mcoatup said:

Hi, for all those who can’t work out why the snow is melting, it’s to do with the ground temperature,which, when I put thermometer in the ground earlier, it read 2c. I guess that might change in due course.

Does it make a difference that the ground round here is completely waterlogged? I believe we had 200%+ of average rainfall in Janurary. Plus a couple of days ago it was so warm I was walking around without a coat. Maybe the water under the soil was quite warm to start with and the cooling effect from the snow above is being canceled out by the unusually high amount of warm water below.

Edited February 8, 2021 by plmoknijb
I wrote "usually" by accident

[Howie]

Just now, Brocken Spectre said:

This is the explanation of melting snow in below freezing temperatures:

Even when the air temperature is below freezing snow can melt on the ground due to heat from the ground (ground temperature may be higher that air temperature). Also, snow can disappear due to sublimation. In this case, due to low humidity and/or low air pressure, it turns from a solid state directly to a gas without going through the liquid state.

If only we had a few frosty days before this started 

[Lampostwatcher]

Heavy snow for the last 30 mins 

Everything covered 

[NYCSnow]

Does anyone else use the home and dry radar app? Mine hasn’t updated since 14:45

[Eastbourneguy]

I would say it has to warm ground temperatures just below the surface, because if it was sublimation everything wouldn't be as wet! Not 100% on this though.

[Mr Brown]

Just now, NYCSnow said:

Does anyone else use the home and dry radar app? Mine hasn’t updated since 14:45

Same with mine.

[danm]

1 minute ago, NYCSnow said:

Does anyone else use the home and dry radar app? Mine hasn’t updated since 14:45

I do too. It hasn't updated since then. Happened a couple of times over the last day or so. 

Edit: it has updated now,

Edited February 8, 2021 by danm

[Mizzle]

14 minutes ago, Mark said:

I would say that even though the freezing point of water is 0c, to keep water frozen takes a colder temperature, especially if snow falls onto something that isn't pure, or even ever so slightly above 0c. That's why your freezer is at about -18c (though I'm aware that's also to freeze things quickly). That snow came from a much colder place than the ground.

Typing out loud, prepared to be corrected.

 

edit: in hindsight, that wasn't a great post, sorry

I'm a little off topic here,  but your post reminded me of a lecture I went to on Antarctica. They did an experiment to show how water won't freeze at 0°C if it is completely pure. The moment an impurity hits the water it freezes instantly. They had some cups of this super cooled water and the moment your lips touched the water to drink it instantly crackled and turned to ice. Incredible and almost magical!

Edited February 8, 2021 by Mizzle
Typo - cold fingers!