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The Decline of Pop Music


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Ok im well known here for moaning about the state of this once great art form.. many of you argued against me, suggesting its just because im old and past it..

When i was young, Stevie Wonder sang about "i was made to love her" and "my Cherie Amour", Marvin Gaye sang smoochy sensual love songs, Otis Reading "My Girl", you know...great songs about love with a degree of lyrical quality.

This bit of filth is currently number one... yes number one.. Cardi B with WAP (wet ass feline) - dont anyone ever again try to excuse modern pop as being "the same as its always been"

 

I said, certified freak
Seven days a week
Wet ass feline
Make that pull-out game weak, woo

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, you wibbleing with some wet ass feline
Bring a bucket and a mop for this wet ass feline
Give me everything you got for this wet ass feline

Beat it up, nigga, catch a charge
Extra large and extra hard
Put this feline right in your face
Swipe your nose like a credit card
Hop on top, I wanna ride
I do a kegel while it's inside
Spit in my mouth, look in my eyes
This feline is wet, come take a dive
Tie me up like I'm surprised
Let's role play, I wear a disguise
I want you to park that big Mack truck
Right in this little garage
Make it cream, make me scream
Out in public, make a scene
I don't cook, I don't clean
But let me tell you how I got this ring (ayy,…

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Yep completely agree except for the BIB.. ooops.. the second bib that is...lol.. made a mistake.. There was plenty of great new music coming up from the ground level through and after the SAW era (

Thinking that this morning listening to Radio 2 (they obviously have an obligation to play current stuff as well as old)...whether you can pin it on nostalgia or not I just don't think the creativity

I'm 35 and at the stage now where I feel I have gotten too old and out of touch with the younger demographic. As someone who makes music (albeit electronic - I don't play any instruments, but I p

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not sure what your point is here?? bilge has always got number 1 no matter what year or what decade its a fact of life in the pop industry...what kind of bilge make it from one year to the next is just a reflection of general society's youth culture at that point in time

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I feel your pain, mushy, I really do!:oldlaugh:

But... I often think it might have something to do with the way our ears are 'trained'? I can't stand the sound of Chinese/Japanese opera, but that's hardly any reflection on the quality of such works; it's my ears that are to blame!

But those so-called 'lyrics' you've posted really are a load of sheet!🤢

Edited by General Cluster
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13 hours ago, cheeky_monkey said:

not sure what your point is here?? bilge has always got number 1 no matter what year or what decade its a fact of life in the pop industry...what kind of bilge make it from one year to the next is just a reflection of general society's youth culture at that point in time

The point is clear... the decline in the state of pop music.

Bilge?... tell that to the Jam, Kinks, Beatles, Stones, need i go on?

THIS is the type of stuff that is being exposed to kids... the young like pop music, on what planet is that "song" acceptable to children? Would you really allow your 12 year old daughter to listen to that?

What mind thinks this is suitable material for a song? Or are you guggesting that society has sunk so low that this is acceptable?
 

2 hours ago, General Cluster said:

I feel your pain, mushy, I really do!:oldlaugh:

But... I often think it might have something to do with the way our ears are 'trained'? I can't stand the sound of Chinese/Japanese opera, but that's hardly any reflection on the quality of such works; it's my ears that are to blame!

But those so-called 'lyrics' you've posted really are a load of sheet!🤢


I cant stand opera... of any variety, but can that be demonstrated to be because its pure filth or is it my ears?.. This has nothing to do with personal taste, its about what is acceptable to be released as a POP single, where the target audience is the young. Im not knocking the "music" im knocking the lyrical content as proof that music has declined.

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Thinking that this morning listening to Radio 2 (they obviously have an obligation to play current stuff as well as old)...whether you can pin it on nostalgia or not I just don't think the creativity is there any more (largely), the song writing or just talent especially when you look at Simon Cowell or that Max Martin (Swedish songwriter) being behind some of the artists in this country and abroad and other factorised music.

Recently I was looking at the 50th anniversary of the Isle of Wight festival on YT and watched/listened to some of the artists: Hendrix, Free, The Who etc and I just thought wow! they're talented they can all play their chosen instruments to the hilt and you can see giving it 100% live and sounding good...maybe part of the problem is that songs are just too over produced. Personally felt it all went downhill as soon as Stock Aitken and Waterman came on the scene.

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1 hour ago, Froze were the Days said:

. Personally felt it all went downhill as soon as Stock Aitken and Waterman came on the scene.

Precisely.... Their brand of manufactured music was the beginning of the end. Most of us ignored it at the time as the trivia it was. But a whole generation of people now who are 35 and under have grown up with manufactured music as "the norm". TV talent shows too have offered then a quick route to stardom.

Pre SAW old men facilitated the younger peoples new ideas, they backed them, managed them, but crucially allow them to create their own music. SAW took that away, and that format has been the norm ever since.

I completely agree with @cheeky_monkey s line above "just a reflection of general society's youth culture at that point in time", well what does modern music say about todays youth? Its shallow, over produced, generic, unoriginal, just plain vulgar in some cases, confetti.

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3 hours ago, mushymanrob said:

The point is clear... the decline in the state of pop music.

Bilge?... tell that to the Jam, Kinks, Beatles, Stones, need i go on?

THIS is the type of stuff that is being exposed to kids... the young like pop music, on what planet is that "song" acceptable to children? Would you really allow your 12 year old daughter to listen to that?

What mind thinks this is suitable material for a song? Or are you guggesting that society has sunk so low that this is acceptable?
 


I cant stand opera... of any variety, but can that be demonstrated to be because its pure filth or is it my ears?.. This has nothing to do with personal taste, its about what is acceptable to be released as a POP single, where the target audience is the young. Im not knocking the "music" im knocking the lyrical content as proof that music has declined.

Pop music has been cr*p for decades. That's why it's pop music. Same reason fast food is popular. Marketing, saturation, but ultimately it's not good for you.

We don't have kids, but I definately wouldn't want my 12 year listening to The Stones - Under my thumb.

It's down to me
The difference in the clothes she wears
Down to me, the change has come
She's under my thumb

And ain't it the truth babe?

Under my thumb
It's a squirmin' dog who's just had her day
Under my thumb
A girl who has just changed her ways

Or The Beatles - Run for your Life

Well, I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or I won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end, little girl

Well, you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line

Horrible.

and if she asked me what 'Swipe your nose like a credit card' meant, I'd be in stitches.

 

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3 hours ago, mushymanrob said:



THIS is the type of stuff that is being exposed to kids... the young like pop music, on what planet is that "song" acceptable to children? Would you really allow your 12 year old daughter to listen to that?

What mind thinks this is suitable material for a song? Or are you guggesting that society has sunk so low that this is acceptable?
 

 

Frankie Goes to Hollywood 1983 - Relax..loved that tune back then..but when you listen to the lyrics 🤪

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20 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

Frankie Goes to Hollywood 1983 - Relax..loved that tune back then..but when you listen to the lyrics 🤪

yep, there was the odd one... but it got banned from airplay, unlike WAP.

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1 hour ago, jtay said:

Pop music has been cr*p for decades. That's why it's pop music. Same reason fast food is popular. Marketing, saturation, but ultimately it's not good for you.

We don't have kids, but I definately wouldn't want my 12 year listening to The Stones - Under my thumb.

It's down to me
The difference in the clothes she wears
Down to me, the change has come
She's under my thumb

And ain't it the truth babe?

Under my thumb
It's a squirmin' dog who's just had her day
Under my thumb
A girl who has just changed her ways

Or The Beatles - Run for your Life

Well, I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or I won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end, little girl

Well, you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line

Horrible.

and if she asked me what 'Swipe your nose like a credit card' meant, I'd be in stitches.

 

Not a fair comparison, those tracks were album tracks and albums did have deeper songs on them, and they are railing against mysogyny not inviting you to take part.

Pop music is an art form, its almost modern folk, it does reflect the attitude of the young at the time but it is far from bad for you... well the higher calibre songs arent, True theres always been nursery rhyme , cvheap throwaway material. But theres also been a lot of great songs, that say something and mean something and reflect the youth of the days attitudes. Pop was fun, original, and identified generations.

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9 minutes ago, jtay said:

Bloodhound Gang - The Bad Touch. 1999.

Edit : The Discovery Channel one....

 

 

i know the track...


And?







 

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4 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:

Not a fair comparison, those tracks were album tracks and albums did have deeper songs on them, and they are railing against mysogyny not inviting you to take part.

Pop music is an art form, its almost modern folk, it does reflect the attitude of the young at the time but it is far from bad for you... well the higher calibre songs arent, True theres always been nursery rhyme , cvheap throwaway material. But theres also been a lot of great songs, that say something and mean something and reflect the youth of the days attitudes. Pop was fun, original, and identified generations.

The Knack - My Sharona was a single. 🤢

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Just now, jtay said:

It was utter filth.

Loved it.


Its was ok, a bit extreme for the time..

The point is though that there was so much more going on in 1999. Uk Garage, Trance, (American) Rock , original styles being created by the youth of the day... there was variety.. and originality. R n B was big, but it was "clean" , suggestive yes, but acceptable.

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3 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:


Its was ok, a bit extreme for the time..

The point is though that there was so much more going on in 1999. Uk Garage, Trance, (American) Rock , original styles being created by the youth of the day... there was variety.. and originality. R n B was big, but it was "clean" , suggestive yes, but acceptable.

There was much more money about in 99 and the years proceeding it. That's why you get so many one man/woman bands these days. Being in a band just doesn't pay, until you're playing the big venues. I was reading an article the other week about one of the members of Wild Beasts, who's gone out on his own and just couldn't make touring pay. I think he's got a job now.

There's still plenty going on, but it's not mainstream.

One aspect that I do like these days is the different projects that artists get into. Perhaps because they have to?

I like a US Band called Wye Oak. Jenn Wasner is fantastically talented. Does her own thing as Flock of Dimes, tours with Bon Iver. Appeared on Future Islands recent single. Getting going as a producer.

That might be one of the good things to come out of the mess that we're in at the moment. Hopefully shed loads of pent up creativity to come, when bands can get back out promoting and touring.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, jtay said:

There was much more money about in 99 and the years proceeding it. That's why you get so many one man/woman bands these days. Being in a band just doesn't pay, until you're playing the big venues. I was reading an article the other week about one of the members of Wild Beasts, who's gone out on his own and just couldn't make touring pay. I think he's got a job now.

There's still plenty going on, but it's not mainstream.

One aspect that I do like these days is the different projects that artists get into. Perhaps because they have to?

I like a US Band called Wye Oak. Jenn Wasner is fantastically talented. Does her own thing as Flock of Dimes, tours with Bon Iver. Appeared on Future Islands recent single. Getting going as a producer.

That might be one of the good things to come out of the mess that we're in at the moment. Hopefully shed loads of pent up creativity to come, when bands can get back out promoting and touring.

 

 

more money?.... there wasnt in the 60's when groups played for peanuts. alexis corner stood outside the gig and counted the punters in, he wouldnt play until there was enough to cover costs.. yet the 60's were phenominal with creativity and originality.
punks had no money, but it didnt stop the most creative movement in pop music history taking off, not punk itself but the styles it created and made it possible for differing styles to be acceptable.

there ALWAYS been plenty going on that wasnt in mainstream... suggesting that all the real talent is hidden is a weak excuse. besides, if it doesnt make the charts then its invisible, because the charts have always  in some way reflected the wider scene. like them or not, the charts are a valuable resource because they do chart the rise and fall of various youth movements and all that goes with them.

dunno how old you are, but im old enough to have had first hand experience ever since the 60's, and an interest in pop music. many styles i didnt like, but i can respect them for the creative process that created them. theres no "buzz" anymore, no passion for an exciting new style.

the problem is like i mentioned earlier.... old men taking over and not allowing the youth of the day creative space. commercialisation, money, success... exactly what punk railed against has finally won.

 

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1 hour ago, mushymanrob said:


Its was ok, a bit extreme for the time..

The point is though that there was so much more going on in 1999. Uk Garage, Trance, (American) Rock , original styles being created by the youth of the day... there was variety.. and originality. R n B was big, but it was "clean" , suggestive yes, but acceptable.

dance and r&b best years 99-2002, 'new' Atlantic 252 era, rubbish last 12 years or so

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I was chatting to our mates 16 year old daughter the other week, asking about her playlist and telling her about some new albums we'd bought. 

She said 'bought?, nobody pays for music anymore'. She uses her Dad's Spotify account. 

Spotify is great for searching out new music. When I've found what I like, I try to buy the album, or go and see them. Many won't, so what's in it for the artists?

Without promoters, management, etc, they won't make the mainstream, unless they get lucky.

No surprise that artists/bands that do make it these days are from middle class backgrounds and will be seen as dull, but there's still plenty going on aside from that.

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, jtay said:

I was chatting to our mates 16 year old daughter the other week, asking about her playlist and telling her about some new albums we'd bought. 

She said 'bought?, nobody pays for music anymore'. She uses her Dad's Spotify account. 

Spotify is great for searching out new music. When I've found what I like, I try to buy the album, or go and see them. Many won't, so what's in it for the artists?

Without promoters, management, etc, they won't make the mainstream, unless they get lucky.

No surprise that artists/bands that do make it these days are from middle class backgrounds and will be seen as dull, but there's still plenty going on aside from that.

 

 

 

bib .... if you listen to old rock-docs featuring artists from the 60's, their motivation was to create new music for the love of making new music, not for a financial reward. of course that was impractical and money HAD to come into the equasion.. but these artists were driven by the love of music, not the love of money and fame.

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Interview with Doves on their new album, after a fair few years out....

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/doves-interview-new-album-universal-want-review-b421027.html

“Putting out my own record, these days you have to give them everything, that’s what I learnt,” says Goodwin. “Sleeve, free videos, all paid for by yours truly. I was in charge of every decision, it was back to nuts and bolts album-making and I’ve got no one else to blame. Out of your comfort zone. It’s nope - still swearinging hard out there, man.” It’s what new artists coming through have to do these days, and Doves got a shock. “It’s really tough for new bands,” says Andy. “The odds are so stacked against you. We were lucky, we caught the tail end of an industry.”

My point is 'Mainstream/Pop' costs money. Bands still do it for the love of it and there's loads of great music around. Early 2000's, perhaps not, but I think it's back on track now.

I was young in the 90's. Great energy and excitement, some good music, but bands like Menswear were getting big contracts on the back of a couple of singles. They looked the part, but really? There's no way that would happen now.

Number 2 in the Album charts atm are Sports Team. They all went to Cambridge. Are working class bands going to get there when their first priority is paying personal bills, before stumping up for videos, promotion, tours, crew? Probably not on the whole, so they bobble along under the radar, just making good tunes.

 

 

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23 hours ago, mushymanrob said:

yep, there was the odd one... but it got banned from airplay, unlike WAP.

not entirely..only got banned when the powers that be cottoned on to what the lyrics meant..spent an eternity in the charts something like a full year if i remember right?

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3 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

not entirely..only got banned when the powers that be cottoned on to what the lyrics meant..spent an eternity in the charts something like a full year if i remember right?

Something like that, yes, without looking it up.

But why was that track around so long? it must be because it had something more then just lewd lyrics, now if WAP has the affect that relax did, ill concede..

But it wont will it, its just filth for the sake of it.

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2 hours ago, jtay said:

Interview with Doves on their new album, after a fair few years out....

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/doves-interview-new-album-universal-want-review-b421027.html

“Putting out my own record, these days you have to give them everything, that’s what I learnt,” says Goodwin. “Sleeve, free videos, all paid for by yours truly. I was in charge of every decision, it was back to nuts and bolts album-making and I’ve got no one else to blame. Out of your comfort zone. It’s nope - still swearinging hard out there, man.” It’s what new artists coming through have to do these days, and Doves got a shock. “It’s really tough for new bands,” says Andy. “The odds are so stacked against you. We were lucky, we caught the tail end of an industry.”

My point is 'Mainstream/Pop' costs money. Bands still do it for the love of it and there's loads of great music around. Early 2000's, perhaps not, but I think it's back on track now.

I was young in the 90's. Great energy and excitement, some good music, but bands like Menswear were getting big contracts on the back of a couple of singles. They looked the part, but really? There's no way that would happen now.

Number 2 in the Album charts atm are Sports Team. They all went to Cambridge. Are working class bands going to get there when their first priority is paying personal bills, before stumping up for videos, promotion, tours, crew? Probably not on the whole, so they bobble along under the radar, just making good tunes.

 

 

bib 1 .... i completely disagree about that. The early 00's was a golden time for "indie" (hate that inaccurate term) rock bands... Deftones, Queens of the Stoneage, Foo Fighters, White Stripes, Hives, HIM, Evanescence, Rasmus, AFI, Kings of Leon, Auf Der Maur, Goldfrapp, and loads of others. You still had decent original dance/trance before it went EDM, RnB was decent, even manufactured bands like Blue had some talent.
Personally i rate the early 00s highly.. There was still variety, originality, creativity...

bib2 ... you support my pov, lol.

I dunno, "we" (my generation) railed against big corporations, punks ethos of "do it yourself" created the "indie" scene, the real indie scene. They rejected big corporations, they wouldnt accept what they were being told and did it for themselves. I have no idea why todays youth are lying down and accepting it.. me? im glad i was part of the most dynamic time in pop music/youth culture history, im saddened by the fact that its simply not the same now. It was fun, generation defining, and creative.

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