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mushymanrob

Evidence of Snowflakery killing comedy?

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, mushymanrob said:

i dont really agree with this. traditional british sitcoms are timeless and were enjoyed by the whole family. i found it aint half hot mum, funny, despite not personally knowing anyone who resembled the sargeant major, i didnt know an alf garnet either, nor a mr humphries, nor even a basil fawlty. i dont think it matters whether you knew them or not, they were believable characters.
 

have you been living in a cave? i have meet lots of people who are just like a RSM or Mr Humphreys, Alf Garnet (esp growing up not so much now) and plenty like Basil Fawlty..lots like Hyacinth Bucket ..Del and Rodney..the list go on ..more recent comedy..Gavin & Stacey.. me being from Essex those characters were exactly the same as my friends from college with my GF not being from Essex but from Liverpool (not wales)..recently i have been watching the inbetweeners ..even though i left school 20 years before the show was made..the characters are just the same as the friends i had at school..both those shows i found extremely funny

Edited by cheeky_monkey

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16 hours ago, cheeky_monkey said:

have you been living in a cave? i have meet lots of people who are just like a RSM or Mr Humphreys, Alf Garnet (esp growing up not so much now) and plenty like Basil Fawlty..lots like Hyacinth Bucket ..Del and Rodney..the list go on ..more recent comedy..Gavin & Stacey.. me being from Essex those characters were exactly the same as my friends from college with my GF not being from Essex but from Liverpool (not wales)..recently i have been watching the inbetweeners ..even though i left school 20 years before the show was made..the characters are just the same as the friends i had at school..both those shows i found extremely funny

lol... they are actors, portraying a sereotype, i have no doubt that these people existed, but are an extreme exagerated example of characteristics many can relate too. i worked on derby city council, i mixed with guys with poor education, some were working class tories like alf was.... i have never met anyone like alf garnet. did someone like him exist? im certain of it, but to portray the whole previous generations as being full of alf garnets is completely untrue.

not sure what your point about gavin and stacey or the inbetweeners is... throw in friday night dinner too... they arent the creation of milennials. The whole point of this thread is to underline that milennials do not to appear to be creating new sitcoms or sketch shows because of the risk of "offence" . ive supported that by citing the number of complaints levied at a 5 minute little britian slot, that only drew a handful of similar complaints when it was running . and also by the testimonies of actors/writers saying that they couldnt produce the young ones, father ted, ot only fools and horses today... personally i think thats shocking!
 

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Posted (edited)

Young people don’t watch TV anymore. There’s no audience for sitcoms. Television is dying. This is the problem companies like the BBC face - their audience is increasingly very grey. In time they’ll become completely irrelevant.

There are plenty of comedies on Netflix though, which is what people my age (32) typically watch.

Edited by cheese

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On 18/05/2020 at 08:15, mushymanrob said:

Thats the point about Ethnics in old comedy.... they werent victims, it was the protagonist white that came off worse, be it Alf Garnet, Eddie from love thy neighbour, Dan Warrington in rising damp, or michael bates in it aint half hot mum.. Off hand i cannot think of an old comedy with racial representation where they were the victim. They were part of the joke, which is how it should be isnt it? instead of getting all offended that someone of colour is represented in a comedy. If we live in a multicultural society, which we do, the surely everyone from that society can be represented in comedy without snowflakery cries of "offence".

This is what some people fail to grasp. Satirical comedy is not advocating racism, xenophobia etc it's actively mocking the people that are racist, xenophobic etc. That's what makes this type of comedy so funny.

It just saddens me that we're not even able to even bring such issues up in a 'mocking' way these days without someone generally missing the point and complaining like a little biatch.

It's akin to someone lodging a complaint against songs of praise because they're an atheist. Except this doesn't happen because where this is concerned, people just don't watch it if they don't want to. No idea why this application of common sense can't be utilised all round.

Edited by CreweCold
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7 hours ago, cheese said:

Young people don’t watch TV anymore. There’s no audience for sitcoms. Television is dying. This is the problem companies like the BBC face - their audience is increasingly very grey. In time they’ll become completely irrelevant.

There are plenty of comedies on Netflix though, which is what people my age (32) typically watch.

completely disagree.... "no audience for sitcoms"? tell that to uk gold, to the bbc, channel 4 and itv whos "player" is full of old sitcoms. what sitcoms there are now are very popular, gavin and staceys crimbo show topped the ratings.

on netflix?... yes we know, we watch them.. like after life... brilliant.. but which comedies are created by your age group?.. CrewCold gets it...see his post above this post...

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10 hours ago, mushymanrob said:

completely disagree.... "no audience for sitcoms"? tell that to uk gold, to the bbc, channel 4 and itv whos "player" is full of old sitcoms. what sitcoms there are now are very popular, gavin and staceys crimbo show topped the ratings.

on netflix?... yes we know, we watch them.. like after life... brilliant.. but which comedies are created by your age group?.. CrewCold gets it...see his post above this post...

It’s a fact that TV viewership is on the decline and this is especially true amongst younger age groups. If there was any significant demand for sitcoms then you’d see them but there just isn’t. Even the likes of the BBC are increasingly strapped for cash. I have friends who don’t even own a television.
 

image.thumb.jpeg.e93c24d12b17e3371b071254757b948f.jpeg

I also don’t really care what age group they’re made by either - makes no difference to me.

Edited by cheese

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2 hours ago, cheese said:

It’s a fact that TV viewership is on the decline and this is especially true amongst younger age groups. If there was any significant demand for sitcoms then you’d see them but there just isn’t. Even the likes of the BBC are increasingly strapped for cash. I have friends who don’t even own a television.
 

image.thumb.jpeg.e93c24d12b17e3371b071254757b948f.jpeg

I also don’t really care what age group they’re made by either - makes no difference to me.

Yyyeesss

 

The very point of this thread is to highlight the lack of new comedy being created by the young... you have confirmed this. 

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14 hours ago, cheese said:

It’s a fact that TV viewership is on the decline and this is especially true amongst younger age groups. If there was any significant demand for sitcoms then you’d see them but there just isn’t. Even the likes of the BBC are increasingly strapped for cash. I have friends who don’t even own a television.
 

image.thumb.jpeg.e93c24d12b17e3371b071254757b948f.jpeg

I also don’t really care what age group they’re made by either - makes no difference to me.

............ if theres no significant demand for sitcoms, why was Gavin and Stacey the biggest viewed program over Christmas? how come friday night dinner is so popular? why does UK gold exist? why are there so many on "on demand" or on a "player"?

 

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18 hours ago, mushymanrob said:

Yyyeesss

 

The very point of this thread is to highlight the lack of new comedy being created by the young... you have confirmed this. 

I didn’t doubt that. I’m giving you reasons why. There’s nothing stopping older people making new comedies if there is demand for it.

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19 minutes ago, cheese said:

I didn’t doubt that. I’m giving you reasons why. There’s nothing stopping older people making new comedies if there is demand for it.

But ive explained why they arent being made, its because of risk of causing offence, not because there isnt a demand because there clearly is. 

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........... no surprises in last nights 30 greatest comedy characters ever.... 1 milennial in the top 40. (fleabag) (ten others were disregarded, so 10 didnt make the top 30). no room for alf garnet, steptoe, jim royle, and many more..

. Alan Partridge (I'm Alan Partridge)

2. Del Boy (Only Fools And Horses)

3. David Brent (The Office)

4. Blackadder (Blackadder)

5. Basil Fawlty (Fawlty Towers)

6. Fleabag (Fleabag

7. Rick (The Young Ones)

8. Fletcher (Porridge)

9. Victor Meldrew (One Foot In The Grave)

10. Frank Spencer (Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em)

11. Captain Mainwaring (Dad's Army)

12. Hyacinth Bucket (Keeping Up Appearances)

13. Arkwright (Open All Hours)

14. Rigsby (Rising Damp)

15. Mrs Merton (The Mrs Merton Show)

16. Malcolm Tucker (The Thick Of It)

17. Margo Leadbetter (The Good Life)

18. Geraldine Granger (The Vicar Of Dibley)

19. Sir Humphrey Appleby (Yes, Minister)

20. Hancock (Hancock's Half Hour)

21. Mr Bean (Mr. Bean)

22. Miranda (Miranda)

23. Ali G (Da Ali G Show)

24. Father Ted (Father Ted)

25. Nessa Jenkins (Gavin & Stacey)

26. Patsy Stone (Absolutely Fabulous)

27. Mrs Brown (Mrs. Brown's Boys)

28. Perry (Harry Enfield's Television Programme)

29. Martin Bryce (Ever Decreasing Circles)

30. Compo (Last Of The Summer Wine)

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Bring back the Black and White minstrels for Sunday evening family viewing, it would go down a storm.

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10 hours ago, mushymanrob said:

........... no surprises in last nights 30 greatest comedy characters ever.... 1 milennial in the top 40. (fleabag) (ten others were disregarded, so 10 didnt make the top 30). no room for alf garnet, steptoe, jim royle, and many more..

. Alan Partridge (I'm Alan Partridge)

2. Del Boy (Only Fools And Horses)

3. David Brent (The Office)

4. Blackadder (Blackadder)

5. Basil Fawlty (Fawlty Towers)

6. Fleabag (Fleabag

7. Rick (The Young Ones)

8. Fletcher (Porridge)

9. Victor Meldrew (One Foot In The Grave)

10. Frank Spencer (Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em)

11. Captain Mainwaring (Dad's Army)

12. Hyacinth Bucket (Keeping Up Appearances)

13. Arkwright (Open All Hours)

14. Rigsby (Rising Damp)

15. Mrs Merton (The Mrs Merton Show)

16. Malcolm Tucker (The Thick Of It)

17. Margo Leadbetter (The Good Life)

18. Geraldine Granger (The Vicar Of Dibley)

19. Sir Humphrey Appleby (Yes, Minister)

20. Hancock (Hancock's Half Hour)

21. Mr Bean (Mr. Bean)

22. Miranda (Miranda)

23. Ali G (Da Ali G Show)

24. Father Ted (Father Ted)

25. Nessa Jenkins (Gavin & Stacey)

26. Patsy Stone (Absolutely Fabulous)

27. Mrs Brown (Mrs. Brown's Boys)

28. Perry (Harry Enfield's Television Programme)

29. Martin Bryce (Ever Decreasing Circles)

30. Compo (Last Of The Summer Wine)

voted for by whom exactly?..Mrs Brown wouldn't even by in my top 1000! 

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33 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

voted for by whom exactly?..Mrs Brown wouldn't even by in my top 1000! 

Uk gold ran a public poll, the final top 30 were decided by a 10 person panel of experts. 

 

I dont find del boy funny.. others do.. i get thar 

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2 hours ago, mushymanrob said:

Uk gold ran a public poll, the final top 30 were decided by a 10 person panel of experts. 

 

I dont find del boy funny.. others do.. i get thar 

lol experts?

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I don't think it's "snowflakery", I think some people have always taken offence to things, but today it gets taken more seriously than was often the case in the past.  There has always been a very genuine issue with minority groups being discriminated against and marginalised, and as these behaviours become accepted as "normal" many people do it without thinking twice, so it helps these groups to be heard and to get some protection. 

But on the other hand, I think as a society we are prone to prioritising being seen to "do something", rather than necessarily achieving the desired results, and making it more about the right to not be offended, rather than the right to not be discriminated against and marginalised.  This increases the sense of needing to tiptoe carefully to make sure to cause the minimum of offence.  There is also an overemphasis on the language that we use, rather than on the meaning behind it, and as well as resulting in us having to be ultra-careful with our choice of words, it also means that discrimination can continue more insidiously by finding politically correct language to use to communicate the same sentiments as before.  I am all too familiar with this, as my peers have developed no shortage of politically correct ways of communicating the same messages as are conveyed by the politically incorrect phrase "man up".  It is also fiendishly difficult to argue against these trends because it is easy to get misconstrued as arguing against inclusiveness, equality and diversity. 

I am not convinced that this has had a measurable detrimental effect on TV comedy as yet though.  It's certainly contributed to the butchering of old cartoons such as Tom and Jerry, but there's still a fair amount of decent comedy about on TV if you look hard enough - up to a point some limitations can actually help creativity.  The declining TV viewership issue is probably a larger factor behind any decline.

Edited by Thundery wintry showers
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10 hours ago, mushymanrob said:

Uk gold ran a public poll, the final top 30 were decided by a 10 person panel of experts. 

Well, isn't that a surprise: a poll of all those obsessed with 'snowflakery' and the perceived (by themselves, anyway!) decline in British comedy, comes to the astonishing conclusion that all their prejudices are justified. By themsleves...? Talk about circular reasoning!

I suppose these 'experts' all have PhDs in 'The Wit & Wisdom of Bernard Manning'???:oldlaugh:

 

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16 minutes ago, General Cluster said:

Well, isn't that a surprise: a poll of all those obsessed with 'snowflakery' and the perceived (by themselves, anyway!) decline in British comedy, comes to the astonishing conclusion that all their prejudices are justified. By themsleves...? Talk about circular reasoning!

I suppose these 'experts' all have PhDs in 'The Wit & Wisdom of Bernard Manning'???:oldlaugh:

 

............. who says they were obsessed with "snowflakery"? there was a cross section of people from emily atack to peter egan.. if anything they were more leaning towards snowflakery then railing against it, which they didnt.

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7 hours ago, Thundery wintry showers said:

I don't think it's "snowflakery", I think some people have always taken offence to things, but today it gets taken more seriously than was often the case in the past.  There has always been a very genuine issue with minority groups being discriminated against and marginalised, and as these behaviours become accepted as "normal" many people do it without thinking twice, so it helps these groups to be heard and to get some protection. 

But on the other hand, I think as a society we are prone to prioritising being seen to "do something", rather than necessarily achieving the desired results, and making it more about the right to not be offended, rather than the right to not be discriminated against and marginalised.  This increases the sense of needing to tiptoe carefully to make sure to cause the minimum of offence.  There is also an overemphasis on the language that we use, rather than on the meaning behind it, and as well as resulting in us having to be ultra-careful with our choice of words, it also means that discrimination can continue more insidiously by finding politically correct language to use to communicate the same sentiments as before.  I am all too familiar with this, as my peers have developed no shortage of politically correct ways of communicating the same messages as are conveyed by the politically incorrect phrase "man up".  It is also fiendishly difficult to argue against these trends because it is easy to get misconstrued as arguing against inclusiveness, equality and diversity. 

I am not convinced that this has had a measurable detrimental effect on TV comedy as yet though.  It's certainly contributed to the butchering of old cartoons such as Tom and Jerry, but there's still a fair amount of decent comedy about on TV if you look hard enough - up to a point some limitations can actually help creativity.  The declining TV viewership issue is probably a larger factor behind any decline.

Surely your first line is the very definition of "snowflakery".

As pointed out previously, the sketch shows and sitcoms didnt mock minority groups, rigsby didnt get the better of dan warrington.... garnet didnt get the better of the gay black guy in "insickness and in health" , the asian guys in It aint half hot mum were no more lampooned then windsor davises sargeant character in fact he always came off worse. No gay guy in any of the many sitcoms was unfairly mocked, in every case i can think of in a british sitcom or sketch show it was the white alpha male/s that were the main but of the joke..... not the women, not the ethnics and not the gays. Minorities were not victims, it was us, the british males that were the but of the mockery.

Dont confuse sitcoms with awful stand up comediand like jim davidson who DID finger point at minorities... im not defending them at all, i hated them then and i hate them now.

Surely if the young ones, fawlty towers, only foold and horses, father ted cannot be made now through fear of causing offence... that IS a measurable detrimental effect is it not? And they are the ones that have been cited by writers/actors as not being acceptable... what about 'allo allo'? surely thats racist and exenophobic by snowflake standards?

we are left with a sterile, dull, tv listings, who concentrate of overly dramatic, circular, hyped soaps, pannel shows and reality tv. You shouldnt have to "look hard" for it... it used to be on offer on the main channels and promoted. if tv is losing viewers, then maybe its because they produce a lot of unfunny, drab, easy, brain dead, crap.

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