Summers 1979-82 v 1985-88

[Sunny76]

20 minutes ago, B87 said:

Comparable to the dreadful June 2012.

The 5 worst summers by summer index since 2000, with the 79-82 and 85-88 summers for comparison.

2012: 233

1987: 239

1980: 242

2007: 244

1985: 244

2011: 247

1988: 247

2008: 253

1979: 254

1986: 264

1982: 264

1981: 268

2016: 271

They fit right in amongst the worst of the 70s and 80s.

2016 was poor, despite some warm periods. It just felt cloudy and humid during much of that summer in the south east.

Nothing great in my book.

[B87]

17 minutes ago, Sunny76 said:

2016 was poor, despite some warm periods. It just felt cloudy and humid during much of that summer in the south east.

Nothing great in my book.

2016 is in there as it had the cloudiest and 8th wettest June on record. It did get hot spells in July, August and September though, saving it somewhat.

2002 is very close to 2016, with a score of 272.

 

[Sunny76]

55 minutes ago, B87 said:

2016 is in there as it had the cloudiest and 8th wettest June on record. It did get hot spells in July, August and September though, saving it somewhat.

2002 is very close to 2016, with a score of 272.

 

I’ll defend 2016 a little. Yes, it had a good August and late July was fairly warm and sunny. Probably the best school holiday period for some years. The cloud ruined it a little. 

[Weather-history]

1987 was rank. Most of June was dire and mid July-mid August 1987 was very poor, I think the first Friday in August it only got to 11C!  

Manchester summer  indices

1979: 199

1980: 173

1981: 196

1982: 203

1985: 180

1986: 189

1987: 169

1988: 191

 

[Don]

17 hours ago, Thundery wintry showers said:

July and August 1987 were probably in the "consistently rather poor" category 

I seem to remember some decent weather in August 1987, particularly in the west county where I spent a week in Cornwall?

[Sunny76]

48 minutes ago, Don said:

I seem to remember some decent weather in August 1987, particularly in the west county where I spent a week in Cornwall?

Summer 87 looks poor from the records,  but I do remember a very warm to hot spell in the middle of August. It was probably about 5-6 days, and temps were nudging 28-30c. 
 

This was the week the Hungerford massacre took place, which was either a Wednesday or Thursday, the hot weather continued until Friday, then we had severe thunderstorms developing over the south east. 
 

August 1987 thunderstorms were quite widespread. Thereafter and before that week, I tend to remember wet and thundery weather. September was warmish to begin with, but was also humid. The weather became cooler. 
 

And to think this was the period that led to the start of the milder UK winters.

[Don]

1 hour ago, Sunny76 said:

Summer 87 looks poor from the records,  but I do remember a very warm to hot spell in the middle of August. It was probably about 5-6 days, and temps were nudging 28-30c. 
 

This was the week the Hungerford massacre took place, which was either a Wednesday or Thursday, the hot weather continued until Friday, then we had severe thunderstorms developing over the south east. 
 

August 1987 thunderstorms were quite widespread. Thereafter and before that week, I tend to remember wet and thundery weather. September was warmish to begin with, but was also humid. The weather became cooler. 
 

And to think this was the period that led to the start of the milder UK winters.

Around the middle of August sounds about right for the hot spell you mention.

Winter 1987/1988 was indeed the first in the run of milder winters.  However, it wasn't really until winter 1988/89 that the warmer period really kicked in with hotter summers as well as mild winters. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Don

[Sunny76]

13 hours ago, Don said:

Around the middle of August sounds about right for the hot spell you mention.

Winter 1987/1988 was indeed the first in the run of milder winters.  However, it wasn't really until winter 1988/89 that the warmer period really kicked in with hotter summers as well as mild winters. 

Yes I agree, and November 1988 was actually quite cold. The real mild winter started in 88/89, but 1987/88 was notable, because it was the first winter without any snowfall in London and the south east for quite a few years. 
 

The early 90s however, saw a slight return to cooler conditions, with mediocre summers and colder winter periods.

[Philipsfd]

On 04/05/2020 at 12:18, B87 said:

2016 is in there as it had the cloudiest and 8th wettest June on record. It did get hot spells in July, August and September though, saving it somewhat.

2002 is very close to 2016, with a score of 272.

 

Surprised to see 2002 and 2016 lower than 2000, 2001, 2009 and 2015. What are the figures please for these four?

[cheeky_monkey]

8 hours ago, Sunny76 said:

Yes I agree, and November 1988 was actually quite cold. The real mild winter started in 88/89, but 1987/88 was notable, because it was the first winter without any snowfall in London and the south east for quite a few years. 
 

The early 90s however, saw a slight return to cooler conditions, with mediocre summers and colder winter periods.

it did snow in London and the SE in January 1988..i was stuck going from Chelmsford to Liverpool street on a train 

[Sunny76]

1 hour ago, cheeky_monkey said:

it did snow in London and the SE in January 1988..i was stuck going from Chelmsford to Liverpool street on a train 

I don’t recall any snowfall that winter. Parts of January 88 were cloudy and chilly though. London probably missed the snow.

[Thundery wintry showers]

22 January 1988 had a widespread snow event across central and southern England as a southerly tracking depression collided with moderately cold polar maritime air, aided by evaporative cooling and heavy precipitation.  It didn't stick around for long, but a fair swathe of the country reported lying snow from it.

Also some parts of the SE woke up to a covering from a north to north-easterly flow on 25 February 1988 although it quickly melted.

However despite those brief events it's fair to say that 1987/88 was somewhat less snowy in the SE than most winters that preceded it, and that some places didn't see any lying snow at all.  

Looking over some historical issues of Climatological Observers' Link, in the February issue one of the observers noted similarities between the mild winters of 1974/75 and 1975/76, and 1987/88, and said, "Are we in for another good summer... 1975, 1976... 1988?".  Not a success...  although to be fair they only had to wait another year for a good summer.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Thundery wintry showers

[Don]

10 minutes ago, Sunny76 said:

I don’t recall any snowfall that winter. Parts of January 88 were cloudy and chilly though. London probably missed the snow.

I remember a completely unforecast snow event in January 1988 (can't remember the date, possibly around the 20th?) which affected Hertfordshire and the Chilterns (probably other areas, too north of London).  It caught everyone out and roads were particularly treacherous as they had not been gritted and this included parts of the M25 around Watford.  I think some places had around 6 inches of snow.  I think only rain and sleet had been forecast.  However, as per usual where I lived at the time completely missed out on the snow and instead had heavy rain.  I have not heard this event mentioned before now on the weather forums.  

EDIT:  Thundery Wintry Showers has beat me to it.  I had a feeling it was around the 20th and remember it being a Friday!  I did not see any lying snow during winter 1987/88 with just a few flurries late February.  It was a real let down after the three preceding winters each producing at least one memorable snow event!

Edited May 5, 2020 by Don

[cheeky_monkey]

On 02/05/2020 at 06:13, B87 said:

July 1980 was worse than any July or August from 1985-88. Only July 1954 was worse.

 

i disagree as does the met office..their quote for July 1988 ..very wet and unsettled .." some long standing records were broken..it was the wettest July over England since 1936...over Wales since 1939 and the wettest July in Scotland since records began there in 1869..sunshine totals were below average almost everywhere Exeter only received 64% of normal..temperatures were also well below normal almost everywhere with the exception of northern and eastern Scotland"

i also remember July 1988 being a stinker.

[Weather-history]

10 hours ago, cheeky_monkey said:

it did snow in London and the SE in January 1988..i was stuck going from Chelmsford to Liverpool street on a train 

I remember the forecast of the threat of snow the previous night, I think it was Bill Giles who did the forecast. Woke up next morning to be disappointed nothing appeared to have happened but there must have been an area of precipation or showers behind the main area because suddenly it snowed and stuck before I went to school.

The next morning was a Saturday and a warm front was pushing up. We had sleet, wet snow but with evaporated cooling it turned to snow and was actually sticking. The snow cleared around midday with the thaw setting in. 

[B87]

10 hours ago, cheeky_monkey said:

i disagree as does the met office..their quote for July 1988 ..very wet and unsettled .." some long standing records were broken..it was the wettest July over England since 1936...over Wales since 1939 and the wettest July in Scotland since records began there in 1869..sunshine totals were below average almost everywhere Exeter only received 64% of normal..temperatures were also well below normal almost everywhere with the exception of northern and eastern Scotland"

i also remember July 1988 being a stinker.

July 1980 was the coldest July on record along with 1954, with an average high of 19.7c! It was also very cloudy and wet.

[B87]

15 hours ago, Philipsfd said:

Surprised to see 2002 and 2016 lower than 2000, 2001, 2009 and 2015. What are the figures please for these four?

2000: 275

2001: 302

2009: 277

2015: 276

[Sunny76]

3 hours ago, B87 said:

July 1980 was the coldest July on record along with 1954, with an average high of 19.7c! It was also very cloudy and wet.

It’s a shame how 1980 turned out. Up until that point, May 1980 was one of the sunniest, and there was a period of 10 or so days that were cloudless across the UK.

 

[cheeky_monkey]

6 hours ago, B87 said:

July 1980 was the coldest July on record along with 1954, with an average high of 19.7c! It was also very cloudy and wet.

average high for London weather centre in July 1988 was 19.7c..Northolt was 19.8c so nothing in it temp wise July 88 was wetter though

[B87]

45 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

average high for London weather centre in July 1988 was 19.7c..Northolt was 19.8c so nothing in it temp wise July 88 was wetter though

Using the same station (Heathrow), 19.7c in July 1980, 20.0c in July 1988. They both had 160 hours of sun. 1988 was wetter though, with 15 rain days vs 12 in 1980.

Both disgusting summer months.

[Weather-history]

The second half of June 1986 was warm, that was a pretty decent spell. The World Cup in Mexico was concurrent. Possibly the best summer spell in that period of 1985-88. 

Any one remember Francis Wilson doing the BBC Breakfast Time weather forecasts at the time and using the word "Thorms" in the summary graphics? 

[Sunny76]

1 hour ago, Weather-history said:

The second half of June 1986 was warm, that was a pretty decent spell. The World Cup in Mexico was concurrent. Possibly the best summer spell in that period of 1985-88. 

Any one remember Francis Wilson doing the BBC Breakfast Time weather forecasts at the time and using the word "Thorms" in the summary graphics? 

I remember the World Cup period of 1986 being quite warm or hot, and it was probably the best weather of summer 86.

We had a day trip to France with my school, and the weather was hot and sunny all day, from as early as 4am until 10ish in the evening.

Strange how most World Cup periods coincide with warm sunny weather, even during the poorer summers like 2010.

Even 2002 had some nice sunny weather during the World Cup, and that was a dull summer.

[B87]

8 minutes ago, Sunny76 said:

Strange how most World Cup periods coincide with warm sunny weather, even during the poorer summers like 2010.

The only one that didn't in the 1986-2018 period was 1998, where the summer didn't get going until August.

[Weather-history]

3 minutes ago, B87 said:

The only one that didn't in the 1986-2018 period was 1998, where the summer didn't get going until August.

Neither did 1990. That June was poor. 

[B87]

56 minutes ago, Weather-history said:

Neither did 1990. That June was poor. 

July 1990 was decent though.