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Summer 2020 - Moans, Ramps & Chat

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1 hour ago, Froze were the Days said:

Ahh! the same ones you were telling us about in winter when you thought 12/13c was chilly as there was some wind?....I wonder when they will next make an appearance? 🙂

Everybody feels different. The wind makes it feel colder. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Sunny76 said:

Everybody feels different. The wind makes it feel colder. 

It certainly does! Last winter never felt very mild as it was always windy/breezy, even when temperatures were in double digits it didn't feel it because of windy and damp conditions. The previous winter was also mild but actually felt mild because it wasn't as windy.

 

Last August I went to the west coast of Wales for a week, every day was 17°C with a really chilly westerly wind coming off the sea. Even my ears felt cold one evening. Brrrr... 💨❄️

Edited by East Lancs Rain

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East Lancs last 24 hours:

 

Partly Cloudy

Max: 16.1°C

Min: 8.9°C

Rain: None

Sun: 8 hrs 48 mins

 

Averages this month (to the 19th):

Average Max: 15.8°C 

Average Min: 10.8°C

 

Rainfall so far this month: 105 mm

Rainfall so far this year: 762 mm

Sunshine so far this year: 725 hours

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8 hours ago, Sunny76 said:

I think if we lived by the coast or somewhere in the countryside, it would be nicer. You could benefit by just going for a local walk and not having to book time off.

Although, a break to the coast or countryside is different compared to living there year round, as I probably would miss certain aspects of city life. I know living in London can have its downsides, expensive rents, public transport and busy outdoor areas, but there’s variety. 

Oh of course, I have no shortage of beautiful places to go nearby, but I don't count the Severn as coast as it's brown lol and the south coast is gorgeous. The time off issue isn't an issue for me as I run my own business online, but obviously arranging a day out involves other people who are sadly governed by their jobs... It would be so nice to just be able to know it'll be sunny as it is... you know... July.

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Posted (edited)

The last 30 Augusts in London. Certainly expecting a cool, cloudy and wet one looking at recent history. Only one instance of a cold August being dry and sunny (1993). Even a completely average one like 2000 would feel amazing compared to most Augusts since 2006.

1990: 26.0c / 14.7c / 26.8mm / 249.3 hrs
1991: 24.1c / 14.4c / 26.0mm / 241.7 hrs
1992: 21.7c / 13.6c / 84.7mm / 149.2 hrs
1993: 21.6c / 11.7c / 23.8mm / 219.4 hrs
1994: 23.0c / 13.8c / 32.2mm / 180.9 hrs
1995: 27.0c / 15.6c / 0.3mm / 295.3 hrs
1996: 23.1c / 13.4c / 45.8mm / 217.6 hrs
1997: 25.8c / 16.6c / 70.5mm / 194.2 hrs
1998: 23.5c / 12.7c / 16.6mm / 262.6 hrs
1999: 22.8c / 14.0c / 124.8mm / 199.8 hrs
2000: 23.2c / 14.0c / 32.3mm / 211.4 hrs
2001: 23.5c / 14.5c / 79.0mm / 210.9 hrs
2002: 23.3c / 14.7c / 36.3mm / 190.4 hrs
2003: 26.4c / 15.7c / 10.4mm / 255.3 hrs
2004: 23.8c / 15.1c / 107.8mm / 213.3 hrs
2005: 23.2c / 13.0c / 42.4mm / 250.4 hrs
2006: 22.2c / 13.5c / 68.8mm / 140.2 hrs
2007: 21.5c / 12.9c / 41.0mm / 192.6 hrs
2008: 21.5c / 14.2c / 64.4mm / 104.3 hrs
2009: 23.9c / 14.1c / 39.6mm / 167.6 hrs
2010: 21.6c / 13.2c / 88.6mm / 110.9 hrs
2011: 21.8c / 13.4c / 68.8mm / 144.1 hrs
2012: 23.5c / 14.3c / 36.4mm / 182.6 hrs
2013: 24.3c / 14.3c / 32.6mm / 198.7 hrs
2014: 21.7c / 12.7c / 97.6mm / 183.6 hrs
2015: 22.2c / 14.1c / 116.8mm / 134.1 hrs
2016: 24.7c / 14.6c / 21.6mm / 201.4 hrs
2017: 22.0c / 13.5c / 58.6mm / 174.9 hrs
2018: 24.5c / 14.5c / 48.2mm / 182.1 hrs
2019: 25.2c / 14.1c / 33.6mm / 201.2 hrs

 

Edited by B87

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Posted (edited)

This has been mentioned before, but Heathrow changed from a Campbell-Stokes sunshine recorder in 2005 to a Kipp-Zonen one and the K-Z recorder typically records about 10% less sunshine in the summer months.  Allowing for this, August 2007 would be another dry and sunny but cool August (Campbell-Stokes equivalent of approximately 212 hours).  August 2005, a sunny month in London by almost any standards, also qualifies relative to the 1971-2000 and 1981-2010 averages, though it was fractionally warmer than the average for 1961-1990.

I do agree that dry and sunny but cool Augusts are relatively rare, certainly in comparison with Mays, Junes and Septembers, but the ENSO signals for 2020 have broad similarities with 2005 and 2007, which is one line of evidence that could contribute to us getting another dry, sunny but fairly cool August this year.

Edited by Thundery wintry showers
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Thundery wintry showers said:

This has been mentioned before, but Heathrow changed from a Campbell-Stokes sunshine recorder in 2005 to a Kipp-Zonen one and the K-Z recorder typically records about 10% less sunshine in the summer months.  Allowing for this, August 2007 would be another dry and sunny but cool August (Campbell-Stokes equivalent of approximately 212 hours).  August 2005, a sunny month in London by almost any standards, also qualifies relative to the 1971-2000 and 1981-2010 averages,

I've also asked this before, but why is the UK the only country on Earth where this is the case? Electronic sensors in France, Poland and NZ (and probably more locations, but I haven't looked at reports for those) all report increases 10-15% in sun hours recorded, some with ridiculous measurements. Paris for example, which like London averages 212 hours in July, seems to frequently record over 250-300 hours of sun in July now, and 200-300 hours extra over the course of the year. Paris is not noticeably sunnier than London.

CS vs KZ study from Poland, 10.4% increase with the KZ: 

704.jpg
LINK.SPRINGER.COM

The purpose of this paper is to compare daily sunshine duration data measured using a Campbell-Stokes sunshine recorder (CS)...

 

 

Edited by B87
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1 hour ago, B87 said:

The last 30 Augusts in London. Certainly expecting a cool, cloudy and wet one looking at recent history. Only one instance of a cold August being dry and sunny (1993). Even a completely average one like 2000 would feel amazing compared to most Augusts since 2006.

1990: 26.0c / 14.7c / 26.8mm / 249.3 hrs
1991: 24.1c / 14.4c / 26.0mm / 241.7 hrs
1992: 21.7c / 13.6c / 84.7mm / 149.2 hrs
1993: 21.6c / 11.7c / 23.8mm / 219.4 hrs
1994: 23.0c / 13.8c / 32.2mm / 180.9 hrs
1995: 27.0c / 15.6c / 0.3mm / 295.3 hrs
1996: 23.1c / 13.4c / 45.8mm / 217.6 hrs
1997: 25.8c / 16.6c / 70.5mm / 194.2 hrs
1998: 23.5c / 12.7c / 16.6mm / 262.6 hrs
1999: 22.8c / 14.0c / 124.8mm / 199.8 hrs
2000: 23.2c / 14.0c / 32.3mm / 211.4 hrs
2001: 23.5c / 14.5c / 79.0mm / 210.9 hrs
2002: 23.3c / 14.7c / 36.3mm / 190.4 hrs
2003: 26.4c / 15.7c / 10.4mm / 255.3 hrs
2004: 23.8c / 15.1c / 107.8mm / 213.3 hrs
2005: 23.2c / 13.0c / 42.4mm / 250.4 hrs
2006: 22.2c / 13.5c / 68.8mm / 140.2 hrs
2007: 21.5c / 12.9c / 41.0mm / 192.6 hrs
2008: 21.5c / 14.2c / 64.4mm / 104.3 hrs
2009: 23.9c / 14.1c / 39.6mm / 167.6 hrs
2010: 21.6c / 13.2c / 88.6mm / 110.9 hrs
2011: 21.8c / 13.4c / 68.8mm / 144.1 hrs
2012: 23.5c / 14.3c / 36.4mm / 182.6 hrs
2013: 24.3c / 14.3c / 32.6mm / 198.7 hrs
2014: 21.7c / 12.7c / 97.6mm / 183.6 hrs
2015: 22.2c / 14.1c / 116.8mm / 134.1 hrs
2016: 24.7c / 14.6c / 21.6mm / 201.4 hrs
2017: 22.0c / 13.5c / 58.6mm / 174.9 hrs
2018: 24.5c / 14.5c / 48.2mm / 182.1 hrs
2019: 25.2c / 14.1c / 33.6mm / 201.2 hrs

 

Nothing wrong with most of those August’s. Plenty of sunshine, not much rain and very warm temperatures with most of them. You’ve just been spoiled. Not a single August below 20C in the last 30 years. Amazing.

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1 hour ago, B87 said:

The last 30 Augusts in London. Certainly expecting a cool, cloudy and wet one looking at recent history. Only one instance of a cold August being dry and sunny (1993). Even a completely average one like 2000 would feel amazing compared to most Augusts since 2006.

1990: 26.0c / 14.7c / 26.8mm / 249.3 hrs
1991: 24.1c / 14.4c / 26.0mm / 241.7 hrs
1992: 21.7c / 13.6c / 84.7mm / 149.2 hrs
1993: 21.6c / 11.7c / 23.8mm / 219.4 hrs
1994: 23.0c / 13.8c / 32.2mm / 180.9 hrs
1995: 27.0c / 15.6c / 0.3mm / 295.3 hrs
1996: 23.1c / 13.4c / 45.8mm / 217.6 hrs
1997: 25.8c / 16.6c / 70.5mm / 194.2 hrs
1998: 23.5c / 12.7c / 16.6mm / 262.6 hrs
1999: 22.8c / 14.0c / 124.8mm / 199.8 hrs
2000: 23.2c / 14.0c / 32.3mm / 211.4 hrs
2001: 23.5c / 14.5c / 79.0mm / 210.9 hrs
2002: 23.3c / 14.7c / 36.3mm / 190.4 hrs
2003: 26.4c / 15.7c / 10.4mm / 255.3 hrs
2004: 23.8c / 15.1c / 107.8mm / 213.3 hrs
2005: 23.2c / 13.0c / 42.4mm / 250.4 hrs
2006: 22.2c / 13.5c / 68.8mm / 140.2 hrs
2007: 21.5c / 12.9c / 41.0mm / 192.6 hrs
2008: 21.5c / 14.2c / 64.4mm / 104.3 hrs
2009: 23.9c / 14.1c / 39.6mm / 167.6 hrs
2010: 21.6c / 13.2c / 88.6mm / 110.9 hrs
2011: 21.8c / 13.4c / 68.8mm / 144.1 hrs
2012: 23.5c / 14.3c / 36.4mm / 182.6 hrs
2013: 24.3c / 14.3c / 32.6mm / 198.7 hrs
2014: 21.7c / 12.7c / 97.6mm / 183.6 hrs
2015: 22.2c / 14.1c / 116.8mm / 134.1 hrs
2016: 24.7c / 14.6c / 21.6mm / 201.4 hrs
2017: 22.0c / 13.5c / 58.6mm / 174.9 hrs
2018: 24.5c / 14.5c / 48.2mm / 182.1 hrs
2019: 25.2c / 14.1c / 33.6mm / 201.2 hrs

 

Where do you get this information from? 🙂 Would I be able to get this for my location?

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, East Lancs Rain said:

Nothing wrong with most of those August’s. Plenty of sunshine, not much rain and very warm temperatures with most of them. You’ve just been spoiled. Not a single August below 20C in the last 30 years. Amazing.

London has only ever had August fail to average 20c in the following years. Bear in mind that a 22c August here is considered poor.

1954: 19.8c

1956: 18.8c (coldest August on record)

1963: 19.8c

Of the 30 above, I'd consider them very poor in 1992, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2017. August 1993 was very cool, but at least it was dry and sunny.

Edited by B87

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2 minutes ago, AFC Snow said:

Where do you get this information from? 🙂 Would I be able to get this for my location?

The Met Office historic data page. It doesn't have every station though.

uk_climate_historic_station_data.jpg
WWW.METOFFICE.GOV.UK

To see a time series of monthly data, select a location from the list below, or use the map:

 

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10 minutes ago, B87 said:

The Met Office historic data page. It doesn't have every station though.

uk_climate_historic_station_data.jpg
WWW.METOFFICE.GOV.UK

To see a time series of monthly data, select a location from the list below, or use the map:

 

Thank you. Unfortunately it doesn’t have my nearest station.

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15 hours ago, Sunny76 said:

Yes, cold in the winter, and hot in the summer.

You are in the wrong country. A continental Koppen D climate is what you want.

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Posted (edited)

 

2 hours ago, B87 said:

I've also asked this before, but why is the UK the only country on Earth where this is the case? Electronic sensors in France, Poland and NZ (and probably more locations, but I haven't looked at reports for those) all report increases 10-15% in sun hours recorded, some with ridiculous measurements. Paris for example, which like London averages 212 hours in July, seems to frequently record over 250-300 hours of sun in July now, and 200-300 hours extra over the course of the year. Paris is not noticeably sunnier than London.

CS vs KZ study from Poland, 10.4% increase with the KZ: 

704.jpg
LINK.SPRINGER.COM

The purpose of this paper is to compare daily sunshine duration data measured using a Campbell-Stokes sunshine recorder (CS)...

 

 

Not sure, but there's studies for example of 16 UK sites where both CS and KZ recorders were used simultaneously, that show the relationship for the UK:

https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wea.2288

https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1256/wea.99.03

Surely there must have be a difference in instrumentation or methods between the UK and other locations you mention, either before they changed from CS to KZ or after?

Either that, or the 'cloud climate' of the UK really is anomalously different to these other places (even France and New Zealand?), for example if we get a lot more 'broken' cloud that reverses the relationship for us.

 

Edited by Evening thunder

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To this date only 2 high-summer days here in july compared to 17 in june, getting 2012 vibes if we didn't have such a fantastic june. 

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30 minutes ago, Faronstream said:

To this date only 2 high-summer days here in july compared to 17 in june, getting 2012 vibes if we didn't have such a fantastic june. 

Even July 2012 managed to deliver a hot spell towards the end of the month. But apart from that, the summer that year isn't really all that different to the one so far this year temperature wise. 
 

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4 minutes ago, Weather Enthusiast91 said:

Even July 2012 managed to deliver a hot spell towards the end of the month. But apart from that, the summer that year isn't really all that different to the one so far this year temperature wise. 
 

Aye but decent summer up to June 27th, more especially from late March to 3 June, not been a bad summer, always turns westerly dominated during July

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7 hours ago, East Lancs Rain said:

Nothing wrong with most of those August’s. Plenty of sunshine, not much rain and very warm temperatures with most of them. You’ve just been spoiled. Not a single August below 20C in the last 30 years. Amazing.

I do think the above figs shows how spoiled relative to the rest of uk we are, here in the South east!

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That’s outrageous! NW England has had it rough.

 

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8 hours ago, B87 said:

It's completely lost the plot. That would give what, 35c? In August?

August 10, 2003..... 

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36 minutes ago, MATT☀️ said:

And hopefully the Euro will be giving us something back when the 46 rolls in an hour... Longer term anyway. 

Lol any longer term and it’ll be forecasting into autumn.....

Nothing to stop the poorest July since 2012 now, hopefully it’ll be another 8years until we see a repeat! 

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1 hour ago, Weather Enthusiast91 said:

Even July 2012 managed to deliver a hot spell towards the end of the month. But apart from that, the summer that year isn't really all that different to the one so far this year temperature wise. 
 

But as you can see on my location i don't live in england, 2012 were cold troughout the summer here just like in UK but this year june was really warm here so still different but not by much.

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9 minutes ago, Faronstream said:

But as you can see on my location i don't live in england, 2012 were cold troughout the summer here just like in UK but this year june was really warm here so still different but not by much.

Oh yes, I see it now. Think I've been in lockdown for a little too long. 😄

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Coopsy said:

August 10, 2003..... 

Back when August was a proper summer month. In the 17 years since then, August has reached 34c once and plenty of times has failed to even reach 30c.

Edited by B87

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