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Novel Coronavirus – China


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13 hours ago, emax said:

I agree. I think most countries are doing as much as they feel necessary. Whether countries are doing enough is open to debate, but its a difficult line to draw. Most countries just dont have the resources etc to shut down and secure an entire region, let alone the whole country. And what about testing? You cant test everyone for this virus, as there just isnt the time or resources. The best they can do is unfortunately wait until people come forward. So many variables across so many platforms, it just is what it is. So many people complain about how governments react (some are obviously justified) but generally those people cannot offer any viable alternatives.

Its a bit like snow ploughs in winter. UK wise, if millions of tax payers money was to be spent on snow clearing equipment, people would complain its a waste of money. But when that once in a blue moon snow event happens, people are complaining left right and centre about how poor the resources are. You just cant win lol.

This whole thing is really down to each individual. If you are genuinely concerned for your safety, then dont go out. If you arent, then just live your life as normal, taking any precautions you feel are needed. People are sooo quick to expect the government to tell them how to live their lives, and can never make decisions for themselves. Obviously government advice is helpful and gets people thinking, but people shouldn't just expect the governments to deal with it all for them, and not do anything about it themselves.

Yes so many want the right to complain. Particularly when their neck and decision making is not on the line. A modern trend?

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Can I just say huge credit to all those in here who have talked so openly and bravely  about issues that often don’t get discussed in these types of forums . And also to thank all the members who

Okay, there appears to be a couple of ideas circulating on the forum which people may be getting carried away with? I understand why people are running with them, because it creates the idea that

Can we drop the conspiracy and misinformation type stuff in here please - we all have a responsibility not to spread that kind of thing, as well as the virus. In the real world, wash your hands!

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53 minutes ago, Beverley Lass said:

The World Health Organisation has told people aged over 60 to avoid crowded areas and public transport

Drastic warning also urged people over 60 to skip routine appointments at doctors' surgeries and hospitals

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8060407/Health-chiefs-urge-60s-avoid-crowds-coronavirus-panic-spreads.html

* This advice doesn't match the news that retired Doctors might well be asked to return to work.  ?
I know the medics would wear full protective clothing however.
 

I also thought this 'battle plan' of asking retired Doctors and Nurses to be at odds with  advice for the elderly ! I thought the virus was higher risk to the elderly. 

Maybe they are just thinking of using medical staff that have retired from the profession under the age of 60

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1 minute ago, snowdog said:

I also thought this 'battle plan' of asking retired Doctors and Nurses to be at odds with  advice for the elderly ! I thought the virus was higher risk to the elderly. 

Maybe they are just thinking of using medical staff that have retired from the profession under the age of 60

Yes, it did seem a bit "right hand doesn't know what the left is doing" but you're right, there are probably many doctors and nurses who have retired before 60 and anyway, 60 is just a number. Surely your state of health is much more important than your age. There are 60-70 year olds who are healthier than some 30-40 year olds.

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1 minute ago, Spikecollie said:

Yes, it did seem a bit "right hand doesn't know what the left is doing" but you're right, there are probably many doctors and nurses who have retired before 60 and anyway, 60 is just a number. Surely your state of health is much more important than your age. There are 60-70 year olds who are healthier than some 30-40 year olds.

Yes.I agree that age does not always indicate your state of health. It will be interesting to see how things progress.

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3 minutes ago, Spikecollie said:

Yes, it did seem a bit "right hand doesn't know what the left is doing" but you're right, there are probably many doctors and nurses who have retired before 60 and anyway, 60 is just a number. Surely your state of health is much more important than your age. There are 60-70 year olds who are healthier than some 30-40 year olds.

Also the retired medical profession will be far better placed than a lot of public to assess the risks involved. I assume they would have to volunteer. 

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19 minutes ago, Spikecollie said:

Yes, it did seem a bit "right hand doesn't know what the left is doing" but you're right, there are probably many doctors and nurses who have retired before 60 and anyway, 60 is just a number. Surely your state of health is much more important than your age. There are 60-70 year olds who are healthier than some 30-40 year olds.

But is the susceptibility of the aged due to the rapid, and inescapable, decline in the immune response, rather than with health, in terms of what an annual checkup would reveal?

If it is, one could be as 'fit as a fiddle' and still be 10 times more prone than most others?

Edited by General Cluster
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Chaand Nagpaul, the chair of the British Medical Association, says people need to be "proportionate" in their response to coronavirus.

Asked if the government is taking enough action, he replies: "Each nation has to take its own measures based on circumstances.

"At the moment, and this changes on an hour-to-hour basis... containment seems the correct strategy."

Mr Nagpaul says: "Whilst we are focussing on containment... I would be hoping and I believe there are plans being made for an outbreak that is more prevalent."

He adds planning for worst-case scenarios needs to be happening now.

Mr Nagpaul says he believes the government are doing this.

Source: Sky News

Edited by Bristle boy
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46 minutes ago, Spikecollie said:

Yes, it did seem a bit "right hand doesn't know what the left is doing" but you're right, there are probably many doctors and nurses who have retired before 60 and anyway, 60 is just a number. Surely your state of health is much more important than your age. There are 60-70 year olds who are healthier than some 30-40 year olds.

I have not read any details but if retired doctors have let their medical licence lapse and/or their revalidation is not up to date I’m not sure how they can be bought back into practice, unless revalidation etc was fast tracked somehow. 

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So within two minutes Matt Hancock was already peddling misinformation.

He said the Coronavirus fatality rate was similar to the flu . 

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25 minutes ago, nick sussex said:

So within two minutes Matt Hancock was already peddling misinformation.

He said the Coronavirus fatality rate was similar to the flu . 

Of course even if that was correct, it would mean double the amount of people at risk of death when it's added to the normal annual flu figures. Also double the pressure on the NHS

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1 minute ago, snowdog said:

Of course even if that was correct, it would mean double the amount of people at risk of death when it's added to the normal annual flu figures. Also double the pressure on the NHS

Is it possible I wonder to have both flu and coronavirus at the same time?

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1 hour ago, General Cluster said:

But is the susceptibility of the aged due to the rapid, and inescapable, decline in the immune response, rather than with health, in terms of what an annual checkup would reveal?

If it is, one could be as 'fit as a fiddle' and still be 10 times more prone than most others?

Absolutely ... and the decline in ability of cells to repair the damage done. There was a chart showing the differences, over time, in the CT scans for young to old... everybody had patches on the lung (even those with no visible symptoms) ...the time it took to clear, if at all, increased with age.

Edited by Gael_Force
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19 minutes ago, thundercrazy said:

Is it possible I wonder to have both flu and coronavirus at the same time?

Yes, co-infection is possible.

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1 hour ago, General Cluster said:

But is the susceptibility of the aged due to the rapid, and inescapable, decline in the immune response, rather than with health, in terms of what an annual checkup would reveal?

If it is, one could be as 'fit as a fiddle' and still be 10 times more prone than most others?

 

21 minutes ago, Gael_Force said:

Absolutely ... and the decline in ability of cells to repair the damage done. There was a chart showing the differences, over time, in the CT scans for young to old... everybody had patches on the lung (even those with no visible symptoms) ...the time it took to clear, if at all, increased with each age.

Yes, it appears that immunosenescence is inevitable.

There is conflicting evidence as to whether lifestyle ( sleep, exercise, avoiding stress, healthy diet, special foods) can delay these changes, but perhaps such issues are more relevant to health-span as opposed to life-span. 

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I think people have been talking about the mortality rate being something like 1-2%, however what is a little more worrying at the moment is the settled cases showed that of those cases (about 45,000 now) roughly 7% ended in death and the rest recovered. Would suggest that the mortality rate may end up being higher than the 1-2% currently estimated, at least outside of the more economically developed countries/areas.

Of course that can be balanced out by the possiblity of people just thinking they have flu/heavy cold and never reporting their disease.

Edited by kold weather
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17 minutes ago, Gael_Force said:

This is interesting in terms of can the cured still shed or has community infection gone undetected for weeks.

Interesting with the mention of 'flu related pneumonia maybe actually being due to COVID-19 earlier in the season when no one was tested for it. Also about children, who may display few signs/symptoms but may be carriers. From what these guys are saying, this thing could have been among us for months and no one was any the wiser.

 

Edited by Spikecollie
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Another thing that worries me about COVID-19 hysteria (which would be funny were it not so potentially tragic) is the likely upturn in ostensibly health-enhancing Veblen products: why spend 45 pence, for a jar of turmeric, in Lidl, when, for only £40, you can purchase a month's supply of the very same thing (though packaged as pills and given a poncey-sounding name) online --- or from any 'good' high-street rip-off merchant!?:oldangry::oldsad:

Enter The Plant Whisperer??

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3 minutes ago, General Cluster said:

Another thing that worries me about COVID-19 hysteria (which would be funny were it not so potentially tragic) is the likely upturn in ostensibly health-enhancing Veblen products: why spend 45 pence, for a jar of turmeric, in Lidl, when, for only £40, you can purchase a month's supply of the very same thing (though packaged as pills and given a poncey-sounding name) online --- or from any 'good' high-street rip-off merchant!?:oldangry::oldsad:

Enter The Plant Whisperer??

Ignorance is bliss - but very expensive bliss!

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3 hours ago, Spikecollie said:

Yes, it did seem a bit "right hand doesn't know what the left is doing" but you're right, there are probably many doctors and nurses who have retired before 60 and anyway, 60 is just a number. Surely your state of health is much more important than your age. There are 60-70 year olds who are healthier than some 30-40 year olds.

Is there any advice for people with long term health conditions like say asthma, who are under 60. Or anything else for that matter, cause they'd be in as much risk as the elderly I would have thought. As one of the big problems seems to be an auto immune over reaction, as read in some of the medical papers post here, anyone who has an auto immune problem surely needs advice too. 

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3 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

Is there any advice for people with long term health conditions like say asthma, who are under 60. Or anything else for that matter, cause they'd be in as much risk as the elderly I would have thought. As one of the big problems seems to be an auto immune over reaction, as read in some of the medical papers post here, anyone who has an auto immune problem surely needs advice too. 

I have asthma, Immune and neurological problems. I have not seen anything specific in regards to advice, I'm mainly housebound though.

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22 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

Is there any advice for people with long term health conditions like say asthma, who are under 60. Or anything else for that matter, cause they'd be in as much risk as the elderly I would have thought. As one of the big problems seems to be an auto immune over reaction, as read in some of the medical papers post here, anyone who has an auto immune problem surely needs advice too. 

It's much easier to give advice to the elderly (mostly retired) to avoid travel/crowds/hospitals etc: they are not the economically active, apart from the money they spend. It's a different kettle of fish where the workforce are concerned ... how many have underlying health issues that don't preclude a few hours work. As it is similar to flu, I would personally opt for the premise that if you fit into the category of being offered free flu vaccine then you might be in a more at risk category.

Edited by Gael_Force
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For anyone interested, here's the official 'Report of the WHO-China Joint Mission on Coronavirus Disease 2019' dated 16th-24th Feb. It makes for interesting reading with useful info even for us laypersons.
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

A few examples from the report:

Risk to Healthcare workers
The report indicates that there is little evidence that healthcare workers are more at risk because of their job. In cases where a healthcare worker went down with the virus, it was traced back to being caught from someone else in their family. This suggests the protective clothing and medical face-masks used within Chinese hospitals working environment are doing their job:

"Remarkably, more than 40,000 Health Care Workers have been deployed from other areas of China to support the response in Wuhan. .......transmission within health care settings and amongst health care workers does not appear to be a major transmission feature of COVID-19 in China. When exposure was investigated in these limited cases [of infection], the exposure for most was reported to have been traced back to a confirmed case in a household."

Routes of transmission
"COVID-19 is transmitted via droplets and fomites [objects or materials which are likely to carry infection, such as clothes, utensils, and furniture] during close unprotected contact between an infector and infectee. Airborne spread has not been reported for COVID-19 and it is not believed to be a major driver of transmission based on available evidence. Fecal shedding has been demonstrated from some patients, and viable virus has been identified in a limited number of case reports. However, the fecal-oral route does not appear to be a driver of COVID-19 transmission; its role and significance for COVID-19 remains to be determined."

Symptoms
"As of 20 February 2020 and based on 55,924 laboratory confirmed cases, typical signs and symptoms include:fever (87.9%), dry cough (67.7%), fatigue (38.1%), sputum production (33.4%), shortness of breath (18.6%), sore throat (13.9%), headache (13.6%), myalgiaor arthralgia (14.8%), chills(11.4%), nausea or vomiting (5.0%), nasal congestion (4.8%), diarrhea (3.7%), and hemoptysis (0.9%), and conjunctival congestion (0.8%).
People with COVID-19 generally develop signs and symptoms,including mild respiratory symptoms and fever, on an average of 5-6 days after infection (mean incubation period 5-6 days, range 1-14 days)."

Recovery Times
"Using available preliminary data, the median time from onset to clinical recovery for mild cases is approximately 2 weeks and is 3-6 weeks for patients with severe or critical disease."

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