Novel Coronavirus – China

[swebby]

8 hours ago, Snipper said:

What do we believe?

Coronavirus: How a misleading map went global

APPLE.NEWS

---

A British university says "an incorrect story... spiralled" from its research into the virus's spread.

 

Absolutely no one outside of the recognised medical/scientific channels! I.e WHO, CDC, peer reviewed papers in reputable scientific publications*.  Even the level headed MSM providers should be viewed with a great deal caution, the journalists doing the reporting often have little understanding of virology, immunology or biochemistry. 

*Even then you have to take into account that these could be incorrect, they will however at least be based on the best understanding of the available evidence at that time.

 

[Puddy Galore]

16 minutes ago, swebby said:

Absolutely no one outside of the recognised medical/scientific channels! I.e WHO, CDC, peer reviewed papers in reputable scientific publications*.  Even the level headed MSM providers should be viewed with a great deal caution, the journalists doing the reporting often have little understanding of virology, immunology or biochemistry. 

*Even then you have to take into account that these could be incorrect, they will however at least be based on the best understanding of the available evidence at that time.

 

Just out of interest (and I’m really not being or trying to be funny or sarcastic in anyway here at all) have you a background in biomedical science?  I’m just curious.  I did immunology some 22-years ago (gosh where did the intervening years go) as part of a biomedical science/health science degree and I found immunology (and embryology at a later point in the degree course) absolutely fascinating - I had to be surgically removed from my immunology text books .  At the point I was studying the subject HIV was still very much the virus to conquer.   

Edited February 19, 2020 by Snowycat

[swebby]

20 minutes ago, Snowycat said:

Just out of interest (and I’m really not being or trying to be funny or sarcastic in anyway here at all) have you a background in biomedical science?  I’m just curious.  I did immunology some 22-years ago (gosh where did the intervening years go) as part of a biomedical science/health science degree and I found immunology (and embryology at a later point in the degree course) absolutely fascinating - I had to be surgically removed from my immunology text books .  At the point I was studying the subject HIV was still very much the virus to conquer.   

My background is chemistry. I am most certainly not an expert in medicine, virology, etc.  The nature of my work means i've eventually taken on board y osmosis some knowledge of immunology but i tend to leave those "dark arts" to the biologists that i work with.

Edit

Just in case i may have managed to offend any biologists -"dark arts" is tongue in cheek! In comparison to myself, the biologists, biochemists and medics (aka customers) that i work with, are the smart ones, doing proper research.

Edited February 19, 2020 by swebby

[Methuselah]

3 minutes ago, Snowycat said:

Just out of interest (and I’m really not being or trying to be funny or sarcastic in anyway here at all) have you a background in biomedical science?  I’m just curious.  I did immunology some 22-years ago (gosh where did the intervening years go) as part of a biomedical science/health science degree and I found immunology (and embryology at a later point in the degree course) absolutely fascinating - I had to be surgically removed from my immunology text books .  At the point I was studying the subject HIV was still very much the virus to conquer.   

Blimey, SC --- I did too; but as a part of my OU Degree, and was about prion proteins (nvCJD) as well as AIDS...

But I am, I freely admit, a bit of a dilettante. So 'expert' I am not!

[swebby]

2 minutes ago, General Cluster said:

Blimey, SC --- I did too; but as a part of my OU Degree, and was about prion proteins (nvCJD) as well as AIDS...

But I am, I freely admit, a bit of a dilettante. So 'expert' I am not!

Cool! - Prion diseases are a real biomedical mystery.

[Puddy Galore]

15 minutes ago, General Cluster said:

Blimey, SC --- I did too; but as a part of my OU Degree, and was about prion proteins (nvCJD) as well as AIDS...

But I am, I freely admit, a bit of a dilettante. So 'expert' I am not!

I did it as a part time student as well while keeping a full time job going.  I was 39 when I started to study and it took me 6 long years.  I worked in the hospitals as a medical secretary and the consultant clinical director of surgery ...  in his own words...”didn’t want his medical secretaries going off chasing further education”.  So, he allowed me to pursue my studies as long as I could demonstrate I could work my normal hours outside my study and keep a handle on my work responsibilities - I think he thought I wouldn’t cope with it - he was very wrong.   It was real hard work at times and I think it really did fry my brain in the end but I did manage a 2:1.  It enabled me to move on and upwards getting better paid jobs within the NHS.  One of my projects was work around CJD.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Snowycat

[Methuselah]

26 minutes ago, swebby said:

Cool! - Prion diseases are a real biomedical mystery.

The mystery of mysteries... What is it, about a prion, that makes it able to cause a protein to 'flip' from its normal configuration and turn into something so deadly?

Edited February 19, 2020 by General Cluster

[swebby]

21 minutes ago, General Cluster said:

The mystery of mysteries... What is it, about a prion, that makes it able to cause a protein 'flip' from its normal configuration into something so deadly?

Better still - is it deadly? The presence of plaques in apparently healthy subjects suggests all may not be what it seems. I posted a while back that there is some interesting ideas on the possibility of bacterial infections of the mouth or the gut as a possible cause of plaques. Either through the bacteria's own defence systems, which produce antimicrobial proteins, interacting with prion proteins. Or the gastric hormone system, heavily reliant on protein/peptide neurotransmitters, getting out of kilter and doing similar.  Could the plaques even be part of our immune system?

Edited February 19, 2020 by swebby
one day i will proof read before pressing submit, one day.....

[Gael_Force]

From a specialist on scene, this video explains how the COVID spread so easily among the cruise passengers who were supposedly quarantined.

 

[Snipper]

33 minutes ago, Gael_Force said:

From a specialist on scene, this video explains how the COVID spread so easily among the cruise passengers who were supposedly quarantined.

 

Suppose he could have said everything that was needed in a couple of minutes. 

[Gael_Force]

11 minutes ago, Snipper said:

Suppose he could have said everything that was needed in a couple of minutes. 

You reminded me of an old editor who was always "short of column inches" ...

He's got 2 weeks of self quarantine to fill. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Gael_Force

[Snipper]

27 minutes ago, Gael_Force said:

You reminded me of an old editor who was always "short of column inches" ...

He's got 2 weeks of self quarantine to fill. 

As for me years of writing reports where I know those getting them wanted to get to the nitty gritty ASAP. 

[Gray-Wolf]

Hmmm, didn't we only hear of confirmation that two folk had tested positive for Covid-19 in Iran Yesterday?

Coronavirus live updates: Iran confirms two deaths, IMF chief issues warning on global growth

WWW.CNBC.COM

---

As of Wednesday, more than 75,200 cases of coronavirus have been reported, resulting in at least 2,000 deaths.

If so how long will they have been wandering around before they fell ill and then got tested?

Iran seems to be another place that can 'massage' it news at times so they may well have sat on the 'positive tests' (to avoid public concern?) and only released the info when the patients took a turn for the worse I suppose?

Edited February 19, 2020 by Gray-Wolf

[Snipper]

I hear that Extinction Rebellion  is requiring all future trade to be done by clipper ships. Should ensure everyone on it is dead if there is a plague on board.  Not sure Amazon would agree. 
 

Don’t they have real jobs?

[DAVID SNOW]

Funny ^^^

Seems to be slipping in the news this, what's the latest UK numbers?

Out of control yet.... or stuck at 9 with no deaths?

[swebby]

13 minutes ago, DAVID SNOW said:

Funny ^^^

Seems to be slipping in the news this, what's the latest UK numbers?

Out of control yet.... or stuck at 9 with no deaths?

Out of sight out of mind, it's how news cycles work. 1800 confirmed deaths in china, but that is far far away so does not concern UK MSM as much as a couple being confirmed positive on a cruise ship.

Current sit report

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200218-sitrep-29-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=6262de9e_2

What i do find interesting about this is the discrepancy in mortality figures for Hubei compared to anywhere else. Suggests that good medical care is all important. While that can be provided, it is a case of keep calm and carry on. Once the health system is overwhelmed, then it is a different story.

[Snipper]

As far as many are concerned if it does not impact on them directly it a matter of out of sight and out of mind. Limited imagination comes to mind. Well more important social media stuff is in control. 

It makes me so sad that so many seem so detached from the real world.  But of course if there is a problem affecting them it is someone else’s fault. 

[DAVID SNOW]

47 minutes ago, swebby said:

Out of sight out of mind, it's how news cycles work. 1800 confirmed deaths in china, but that is far far away so does not concern UK MSM as much as a couple being confirmed positive on a cruise ship.

Current sit report

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200218-sitrep-29-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=6262de9e_2

What i do find interesting about this is the discrepancy in mortality figures for Hubei compared to anywhere else. Suggests that good medical care is all important. While that can be provided, it is a case of keep calm and carry on. Once the health system is overwhelmed, then it is a different story.

That's human nature for you.

I don't think we know(for certain) what is/has happened in China, probably never will.

Obviously no sign whatsoever of the NHS being overwhelmed, and I see no reason for that to change.

[Gray-Wolf]

5 hours ago, Gray-Wolf said:

Hmmm, didn't we only hear of confirmation that two folk had tested positive for Covid-19 in Iran Yesterday?

Coronavirus live updates: Iran confirms two deaths, IMF chief issues warning on global growth

WWW.CNBC.COM

---

As of Wednesday, more than 75,200 cases of coronavirus have been reported, resulting in at least 2,000 deaths.

If so how long will they have been wandering around before they fell ill and then got tested?

Iran seems to be another place that can 'massage' it news at times so they may well have sat on the 'positive tests' (to avoid public concern?) and only released the info when the patients took a turn for the worse I suppose?

Iranian state media say;

"

An adviser to the country's health minister said the two victims were located in Qom, a city 140 kilometers (86 miles) south of Tehran. 

Schools and universities in Qom would be closed so investigations can take place," 

Iran state media: Two citizens dead from COVID-19

NEWSUS.CGTN.COM

---

 

It sounds very much like two very sick people turned up, were isolated, then died all in short order.

This must raise the spectre of H2H transfer from the general population in Qom that infected these two old chaps.

If it is a University town then we might look to students returning from areas with H2H spread as a possible mechanism for Covid-19 finding itself there.

How long ago did the two contract the virus, how many others were exposed?

[Gray-Wolf]

Sadly two of the passengers from the Diamond Princess have dies in Japan. Both were old and with underlying health issues.

Iran has confirmed 3 more cases of Covid-19 according to their news agency ISNA

South Korea's CDC has confirmed their first death from the virus amid attempts to 'lock Down'  S.Korea's 4th Largest city (Daegu) as they try and limit the spread of Covid-19 there.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Gray-Wolf

[Gray-Wolf]

I thought the reduction in numbers was 'good news'..... apparently it might just reflect another change by Beijing to the way the numbers are counted???

Coronavirus live updates: South Korea confirms first death; Hubei extends work suspension

WWW.CNBC.COM

---

China's Hubei province has asked firms not to resume work before March 11 due to the outbreak.

Apparently i was wrong to think that W.H.O. were 'on the ground' in Wuhan

"But neither 

Wuhan or any other part of Hubei, the central Chinese province at the epicentre of the outbreak

, was on the itinerary, raising concerns among medical experts about the transparency of the mission."

Americans on WHO team to assess coronavirus crisis, China says

WWW.SCMP.COM

---

Experts to visit Beijing, Guangdong and Sichuan – but Hubei, where the virus originated, is not on the itinerary.

This does not help with our 'confidence' in what China is 'reporting'!

[Pennine Ten Foot Drifts]

I think it's pretty certain that this disease is much more widespread across the world than the authorities are yet in a position to recognise. Cases are popping up in many heavily populated (but often poorly reported on) regions, so it seems inconceivable that, given how easily it appears to spread, many many more people are not already infected, and a good few of those already infected people are not moving around more widely thus spreading it further. I will be very surprised if this doesn't become a global pandemic on a very large scale.

[Gray-Wolf]

This was my concern from day 1 Pennine (Naturally!) as these things do occur and it's been a while since we got a 'Novel' infection where nobody has any immunity.

The fact it mutated into H2H so rapidly didn't help, the fact it is under the jurisdiction of the CCP also appears to not help?

 We've only seen limited H2H in H5N1 over the past 2 decades even though the 'animal husbandry' in China, plus their wet Markets, leaves an awful lot to be desired.

The limited H2H we have seen in H5N1 has been in folk tending for victims and so in very close quarters and unprotected..... Covid-19 seems to ignore even the best protected folk as we see from the huge number of health workers infected in Wuhan (over 3,000 now?) and ,as Diamond Princess appears to show, even when you know it is near you and you do your best to avoid it it'll still get many folk?

The last time we had such an outbreak (H1N1 in 1918) we relied on ships to transport it around the world.... those journeys now take a matter of hours and you also pass through busy hubs with folk bound all over the planet so anyone you infect is well gone before folk try and figure your 'contacts'?

The long incubation and mild nature for most means it is probably already hiding in plain sight?

Maybe it's time we tested all folk presenting with 'Flu' ..... just in case?

[Gray-Wolf]

Things developing in Iran;

Iraq prepares quarantine centers along Iranian border amid coronavirus fears

ENGLISH.ALARABIYA.NET

---

Iraq will be preparing quarantine centers along its territories bordering Iran after Tehran

Apparently Afghanistan has closed its border with Iran?

[Bristawl Si]

A British newlywed who contracted COVID-19 on the Diamond Princess cruise liner in Japan has described quarantine protocols on the ship as "a joke".

Alan Steele speaking exclusively to Sky News after spending almost two weeks in hospital, said he got a call a few days after he had a coronavirus swab test telling him he had tested positive and medics were coming to collect him.

The Japanese government has defended the way it has managed the quarantine, saying "thorough action" to prevent the spread has been taken including using masks, disinfectant and keeping people apart.

But Mr Steele disagrees "The quarantine process was a joke, an utter joke.

"I think there was a terrific rise in numbers because they had people just wandering all around the ship going cabin to cabin to cabin.

"So, if they caught it in one cabin then they're just spreading it to everyone else aren't they.

"Because at this point we weren't given masks or nothing, it was only later they gave anybody masks to go to the door."

Once in hospital, he had to stay in quarantine until he tested negative for the virus on two separate occasions.

Throughout his treatment he said he had no symptoms. Source:Sky News

A lot of his account seems to back up what the Kobe University doctor reportedly said yesterday. He touched off a furor with a firsthand account of a virus-stricken cruise ship in which he said the protections against infection were so weak he was scared he would get sick himself.

Kentaro Iwata, who made the allegations in widely circulated YouTube videos after spending Tuesday aboard the Diamond Princess, told The Wall Street Journal in an interview that the crew should be removed as soon as possible because of the danger of catching the novel coronavirus on the ship.

The charges by Dr. Iwata, an infectious disease specialist who has worked to tackle the Ebola virus and the 2002-03 SARS epidemic, were quickly taken up in parliament and at the prime minister’s office