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Snipper

Should I become vegan (vegetarian) to save the planet?

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Quicksilver1989 said:

Yes I do agree with that and just a comparison with the fertility rates from 1970 to 2014 is astounding.

image.thumb.png.f07a1abe006db6a0322c1740ffdd4f14.png

Even in China now the fertility rate is 1.6 which when comparing to birth rates of past decades and given the downwards trend in the 1990s its easy to see why more children are being encouraged.

image.thumb.png.e37cd68dc8f02a4ef1cc43f828b6e0f9.png

The thing that struck me with those pictures was the demise of birth rates in poorer and particular catholic  countries  This could be down to , the Roman Catholic Church’s once powerful voice against artificial birth control is largely ignored across the socio-economic spectrum particularly in Brazil  with a sharp decline since the 70s    Also with better information technology and  better quality of life.   Days when women used to stay at home a breed a gaggle of children have now long gone  Infact  you could perhaps not blame birth rates as a climate change problem  but   the fact that technology and better medicine is helping us all live much longer.  Role on 2050   by then we will beable to download our brains to a cloud  and live carbon neutral for ever. 🙂

Edited by weirpig

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On 14/08/2019 at 07:32, JeffC said:

Call me cynical but I'm curious what the manufacturing carbon footprint was of the boat that Greta Thunberg is crossing the Atlantic on... 

Composite Hull, cast alloy mast, synthetic fabric sails, all the tech involved... 

Well obviously this in itself has a carbon footprint but compared to that of planes it is tiny because once it is manufactured it won't be using tonnes of fuel every time it crosses the Atlantic (on top of the CO2 footprint required to manufacture the plane itself).

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There's one thing that's been bothering me for some time: why does the UK import New Zealand lamb, when the British countryside is literally teeming with sheep?:unsure2:

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2 minutes ago, Ed Stone said:

There's one thing that's been bothering me for some time: why does the UK import New Zealand lamb, when the British countryside is literally teeming with sheep?:unsure2:

Take a butchers  ( im here all week)

http://beefandlambmatters.blogspot.com/2013/07/why-uk-imports-lamb-from-new-zealand.html

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6 minutes ago, weirpig said:

In other words, it's like it because it is -- the middlemen need to maintain their profits? We'll just have to get used to eating less lamb then, won't we?

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1 minute ago, Ed Stone said:

In other words, it's like it because it is -- the middlemen need to maintain their profits? We'll just have to get used to eating less lamb then, won't we?

Exactly  cheap off cuts are being produced here  and imported overseas  to generate money.  the infrastructure isnt in place here to produce the types of meat we eat in the Uk so we have to have the meat from New Zealand    silly really 

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1 hour ago, Ed Stone said:

There's one thing that's been bothering me for some time: why does the UK import New Zealand lamb, when the British countryside is literally teeming with sheep?:unsure2:

Couldn't agree more, whole country is crackers! 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Quicksilver1989 said:

Well obviously this in itself has a carbon footprint but compared to that of planes it is tiny because once it is manufactured it won't be using tonnes of fuel every time it crosses the Atlantic (on top of the CO2 footprint required to manufacture the plane itself).

Aye that's fair enough but its not like she's going in a hollowed out log, although the purists wouldn't like that because she'd have to chop down a tree. Similarly a coracle would be out... 

What I'm saying is there's an irony in using all synthetic / non animal materials as per vegans because it relies increasingly on petrochemical products to suit and boot the populous... 

Edited by JeffC

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5 hours ago, Beverley Lass said:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071008102334.htm

The  latest thinking is it does have a current purpose.  ??

Good someone has done a bit of research. There seems to be as many theories as people considering it. 

But if so import why can we happily survive without our appendix?

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Snipper said:

Good someone has done a bit of research. There seems to be as many theories as people considering it. 

But if so import why can we happily survive without our appendix?

Awfully sorry but I’d did not intend making multiple replies but I kept getting a message up say I could not post. Obviously me keep clicking made a post . Not sure what the problem was. IT department? Snipper

Edited by Snipper

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This country seems to be heading all others in the nonsense brigade on this subject.

And unsurprising the lead UK propaganda media which comes out sounding intelligent which makes it more dangerous that is the bbc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49440639

 

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6 minutes ago, Snowyowl9 said:

This country seems to be heading all others in the nonsense brigade on this subject.

And unsurprising the lead UK propaganda media which comes out sounding intelligent which makes it more dangerous that is the bbc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49440639

 

Yes - and the other week when i suggested that more humans breathing out CO2 can contribute to climate change, i was poo-pooed as its such a tiny amount, i think you can guess those same people's views if suddenly its suggested that more cows' methane will contribute to the problem, you won't win - i have given up a long while ago.

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The independent is also showing a nonsense headline,its not independent really.

“Every meat-eater on the planet is helping to fuel the Amazon forest fires”

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amazon-forest-fire-brazil-beef-meat-vegan-vegetarian-brazil-a9076236.html

NASA Say The Amazon Is Burning At Below Average Rates.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=193723

Original link showing all.

 

 

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18 hours ago, feb1991blizzard said:

Yes - and the other week when i suggested that more humans breathing out CO2 can contribute to climate change, i was poo-pooed as its such a tiny amount, i think you can guess those same people's views if suddenly its suggested that more cows' methane will contribute to the problem, you won't win - i have given up a long while ago.

But you were claiming that the issue was that due to overpopulation we would increase CO2 by breathing. Yet we are just recycling CO2 by breathing. Nothing in the linked article challenges that…

You also do realise that methane is a very potent greenhouse gas right?

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3 minutes ago, Quicksilver1989 said:

But you were claiming that the issue was that due to overpopulation we would increase CO2 by breathing. Yet we are just recycling CO2 by breathing. Nothing in the linked article challenges that…

You also do realise that methane is a very potent greenhouse gas right?

Yes - but for that to be one of the main drivers, you would have to have infinitely more cows now - plus if more people reproduce then by definition, more are going to eat meat, so demand goes up, supply goes up, methane goes up, literally!!

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2 minutes ago, feb1991blizzard said:

Yes - but for that to be one of the main drivers, you would have to have infinitely more cows now - plus if more people reproduce then by definition, more are going to eat meat, so demand goes up, supply goes up, methane goes up, literally!!

Unless you encourage people to eat less beef, then demand doesn't go up. Cows alone currently contribute to 30% of the UK's methane emissions so quite a big number. Agriculture is also the third biggest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions. However different meat also varies in GhG emissions (chicken for example is much better).

However I don't think the answer is to simply go vegan completely and given I come from a family of meat eaters (and still eat meat every now and then), I can empathise with their arguments. One of my friends went full on vegan and ended up lacking iron in his diet. I think there is some way to go but there are a lot of good vegetarian options out there.... and hopefully lab grown meat will continue to improve and become cheaper in price.

The other question is how many people eat too much meat? Obviously some has benefits for our diet but too much can be bad. Those who don't want to give up on meat could also try and get local meat when they can because that obviously has less CO2 emissions from transporting it long distances and it also improves the local economy as well.

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Farm land in permanent pasture actually takes in more CO2 than is released, cultivated arable land releases CO2 as the soil bacteria and lifeforms break down organic matter.
Since the great majority of human poop is not recycled back to the land at least in the UK, not keeping animals to maintain a natural cycle rapidly impoverishes soil. 
It is never as simpe as single issue pressure groups with massive funding try to make out.

I see a Vegan group have bought a Scottish sheep farm to plant nut trees on, that will go well - they haven't got a clue.
The hazelnuts you can buy in shops aren't native hazel nut bushes but cob nuts which might just about be viable some years on the south coast.
Then there's the other minor issue of no income and no 'production ' for 25 years.
There is no form of nut which will crop commercially in Scotland.

Most vegan foods seems to come out of a tube in a factory and are an interesting cocktai of chemicals to produce something vaguely edible.
Or it's imported from halfway round the world resulting in forest clearance e.g. soya and excessive water use e.g.almond 'milk' from California. 
How [some] mainstream media has suddenly become in the thrall of this cultist movement is beyond me.


 

830590-d3f79e92ff228170cb9cfc743ef0c93c.jpg

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It's surprising (well, not really) that that diagram conveniently fails to mention all the methane that cows produce...Methane (CH4) is, afterall, 84x as potent (as a greenhouse gas) than CO2...? And, let's not forget nitrous oxide (N2O), another agricultural byproduct...that's 300x as potent as CO2!

PS: I'm not, never have been, and never will be, a vegan...🍔

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Stopping some humans breeding and culling are a different subject and not one that i feel us appropriate fir this site so no more please.

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6 hours ago, Quicksilver1989 said:

I don't care what what anybody's political leanings are etc. But statements like this should have no place on this forum and I find such words very alarming. 

Apologies. ‘Twas over the top. 

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1 hour ago, feb1991blizzard said:

Why? but anyway, you have now moderated, thus not letting me defend myself when i have been defamed by being accused of being far right.

I can see culling might not be acceptable but reducing population growth and world population seems more than reasonable. As humans are a greedy consumer of most resources, that generally are finite, an ever increasing population can only pile on the pressure. 

Back to humans producing methane (& other gases) the bloke down the pub the other night was certainly pumping it out. Had to move away to a fresh air location. Ok methane does not actually smell but it was certainly air pollution. 

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Off topic posts now removed or amended. Perhaps if there is a need for discussion on population control a new topic could be started. I suggest in the serious discussion section. 

Please consider what you post and how it may appear to others.

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51 minutes ago, Norrance said:

Off topic posts now removed or amended. Perhaps if there is a need for discussion on population control a new topic could be started. I suggest in the serious discussion section. 

Please consider what you post and how it may appear to others.

For what it is worth I have started a thread in the Serious Section. 

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I hope it's safe to make a post relating to veganism now -- now that we've seen-off capital punishment and euthanasia?:oldgrin:

Anywho, ten reasons why I'll never become a vegan: 

 

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