Hot week - guess the temperature competition

[feb1991blizzard]

What about a Strawberry pie or a chicken pie instead then?

[Wilxy]

32 minutes ago, feb1991blizzard said:

What about a Strawberry pie or a chicken pie instead then?

Either will do nicely! 

[h2005__uk__]

1 hour ago, Mapantz said:

Why? It's fast becoming the cheapest and easiest way to get weather data online.

You've taken what I said out of the context of the rest of the sentence! I said there's no point in that IF the sensors over-read.

I have mine linked to a Raspberry Pi and it works very well. But as I said, I ensured the sensors are as accurate (and therefore useful) as possible.

Edited July 27, 2019 by h2005__uk__

[Mapantz]

21 minutes ago, h2005__uk__ said:

You've taken what I said out of the context of the rest of the sentence! I said there's no point in that IF the sensors over-read.

I have mine linked to a Raspberry Pi and it works very well. But as I said, I ensured the sensors are as accurate (and therefore useful) as possible.

It's the job of the websites to have some kind of quality control in place. 

I don't think it's not worth having a station linked via a Raspberry Pi if a sensor over or under reads temps as you can use the software to add an offset to fix it. 

[h2005__uk__]

1 hour ago, Mapantz said:

It's the job of the websites to have some kind of quality control in place. 

I don't think it's not worth having a station linked via a Raspberry Pi if a sensor over or under reads temps as you can use the software to add an offset to fix it. 

Do WOW/Wunderground have quality control? My experience is you could just sign up and submit readings and that was it, but maybe it's different for new sign-ups now. I don't think any weight is given to these personal stations though. They're separate to ones like Cambridge botanical gardens which are 'manual' but verified by MetO.

I looked into correcting over-readings using software, but I wasn't sure how it'd do it reliably when the over-reading is caused by bright sun. If you had a cloudy afternoon then the software would needlessly reduce a max temp. Presumably it'd have to factor in how sunny it is.

[Mapantz]

1 minute ago, h2005__uk__ said:

Do WOW/Wunderground have quality control? My experience is you could just sign up and submit readings and that was it, but maybe it's different for new sign-ups now. I don't think any weight is given to these personal stations though. They're separate to ones like Cambridge botanical gardens which are 'manual' but verified by MetO.

I looked into correcting over-readings using software, but I wasn't sure how it'd do it reliably when the over-reading is caused by bright sun. If you had a cloudy afternoon then the software would needlessly reduce a max temp. Presumably it'd have to factor in how sunny it is.

Wunderground supposedly does but it seems to work in a weird way. Some stations are knackered and data still shows, yet other people with high-end stations have had their data penalised despite it being accurate. I'm not sure about WoW - Had my data going there for donkeys years. I believe the set up process was quite rigorous, in terms of giving truthful location attributes.

The strictest PWS site I have come across is AWEKAS. If your temp/pressure etc is marginally off from data they monitor, you'll get an stern email from the site admin. If it isn't rectified quickly, you get struck off. 

[Thundery wintry showers]

The PDF doesn't say why the station over-reads in bright sunshine.  It could be that the sensors are accurate but that it is in a sheltered exposure in someone's back garden.  I have a Davis Vantage Vue running in my parents' back garden (and Davis are as reputable as they come for personal weather stations) and their garden frequently gets about 2C warmer than the nearest official MetO sites on sunny days in the summer half-year.

[Summer Sun]

38.7c officially confirmed

 

[sunnijim]

23 minutes ago, Summer Sun said:

38.7c officially confirmed

 

Wow! Wow! It seems 'right' that we have it confirmed.

Had it not been for the pesky convective cloud invasion there would of been no doubt.

You could be grateful I suppose that the cloud didn't arrive half an hour earlier in the Cambridge area as we would of missed the record.

My part of London dropped from 37.6c at 2pm to 36.3 at 330pm.

[Summer Sun]

Worth noting to that this record could yet still be broken as some stations only report data monthly

Quote

The recording was taken at the University of Cambridge Botanic Garden - which houses a Met Office climate observation site reporting every 24 hours – prompting Friday’s initial release. Some observation sites report monthly, so there is still a chance of even higher values being recorded.

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weather-and-climate/2019/new-official-highest-temperature-in-uk-confirmed

[Mike Poole]

Well as one of many on here, analysing suites and suites of model runs in the run up to Thursday, I feel a certain sense of satisfaction that this record was eventually chased down.  Incredible period of weather, and let's not forget the 850 temperatures with the 20C isotherm incredibly far north into the country. 

[mb018538]

2 hours ago, Mike Poole said:

Well as one of many on here, analysing suites and suites of model runs in the run up to Thursday, I feel a certain sense of satisfaction that this record was eventually chased down.  Incredible period of weather, and let's not forget the 850 temperatures with the 20C isotherm incredibly far north into the country. 

Quite - don’t get the weather station police involved again! Probably best you don’t show them the one that broke the Finland record either, that isn’t suitable.

[Scorcher]

On 25/07/2019 at 17:20, BLAST FROM THE PAST said:

So a 38.1c allegedly recorded at Cambridge today as top temp....let’s see.  The record isn’t and won’t get broken....and we had the ripest conditions....interesting

 

BFTP

Won't get broken??

[Methuselah]

16 minutes ago, mb018538 said:

Quite - don’t get the weather station police involved again! Probably best you don’t show them the one that broke the Finland record either, that isn’t suitable.

Indeed, mb...I wonder what daft excuse they'll invent this time -- exhaust gases from a passing UFO?

[DaveL]

1 hour ago, Ed Stone said:

Indeed, mb...I wonder what daft excuse they'll invent this time -- exhaust gases from a passing UFO?

It's screen-inflated air temperatures in light winds on a sunny day that concerns some (including some professional meteorologists), especially the small Stephenson screen used at Cambridge BG. The lighter the winds, the greater the error and at sheltered sites, it will be worse than at open sites. Cambridge BG is very much sheltered from the wind, and until they start to take that into account and adjust as necessary before validating new records, the debate will inevitably rumble on.

[Methuselah]

7 hours ago, DaveL said:

It's screen-inflated air temperatures in light winds on a sunny day that concerns some (including some professional meteorologists), especially the small Stephenson screen used at Cambridge BG. The lighter the winds, the greater the error and at sheltered sites, it will be worse than at open sites. Cambridge BG is very much sheltered from the wind, and until they start to take that into account and adjust as necessary before validating new records, the debate will inevitably rumble on.

The 'debate' will rumble on regardless. Just as it will with Heathrow, Northolt, and any other site that records a new record...?

And how do 'rigged' screens cause record 850s to be recorded? It's not got anything to do with 'extreme' local sites IMO; it's the result of ideal atmospheric profiles. Ideal atmospheric profiles that will only become more common, in future years...?

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by Ed Stone

[Relativistic]

1 hour ago, Ed Stone said:

The 'debate' will rumble on regardless. Just as it will with Heathrow, Northolt, and any other site that records a new record...?

And how do 'rigged' screens cause record 850s to be recorded? It's not got anything to do with 'extreme' local sites IMO; it's the result of ideal atmospheric profiles. Ideal atmospheric profiles that will only become more common, in future years...?

 

Since when has this been a debate?

[DaveL]

7 hours ago, Ed Stone said:

The 'debate' will rumble on regardless. Just as it will with Heathrow, Northolt, and any other site that records a new record...?

And how do 'rigged' screens cause record 850s to be recorded? It's not got anything to do with 'extreme' local sites IMO; it's the result of ideal atmospheric profiles. Ideal atmospheric profiles that will only become more common, in future years...?

They aren't rigged, we either have a new record on the Met Office's QC methodology (38.5 at Brogdale in 2003 goes to 38.7 at Cambridge BG),  or a joint record among better sited stations (38.1 at Kew G in 2003 is matched by  38.1 at Cambridge NIAB).

I'm not disputing the official record of 38.7, the Met Office can do quality control however they like, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved (and for consistency, applied retrospectively to past records too).

Edited July 30, 2019 by DaveL

[James102]

9 minutes ago, DaveL said:

(and for consistency, applied retrospectively to past records too).

Not sure that is easy. Did the weather station in Cambridge that recorded the still-standing record November high of 70F in 1938 meet current standards? Where even in Cambridge was it located?

[Methuselah]

3 hours ago, James102 said:

Not sure that is easy. Did the weather station in Cambridge that recorded the still-standing record November high of 70F in 1938 meet current standards? Where even in Cambridge was it located?

That's a good point, James...Because, so long as extremely hot uppers remain to our south, there'll always be the chance of September, October and November records being broken...?

Though, as we now know, winds at 850 hPa and those at the ground must be suitably aligned. It's nae as though winds from the Sahara never blow during October...1978!

[mb018538]

On 30/07/2019 at 14:46, DaveL said:

They aren't rigged, we either have a new record on the Met Office's QC methodology (38.5 at Brogdale in 2003 goes to 38.7 at Cambridge BG),  or a joint record among better sited stations (38.1 at Kew G in 2003 is matched by  38.1 at Cambridge NIAB).

I'm not disputing the official record of 38.7, the Met Office can do quality control however they like, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved (and for consistency, applied retrospectively to past records too).

We'd better discount the Kew Garden station too, those big trees will probably provide shelter from the wind and distort the temperatures.

[DaveL]

9 hours ago, mb018538 said:

We'd better discount the Kew Garden station too, those big trees will probably provide shelter from the wind and distort the temperatures.

True, they probably do. A bit. How much? well judge for yourself, here's a comparison at the same scale from Google maps. The Cambridge so-called 'open area', trees, hedges and allotment plot (blue rectangle), fit nicely onto the Kew Gardens lawn, don't you think?

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by DaveL

[Daniel Finch]

I've been away from NetWeather for a while but I got the max temp spot on --> https://twitter.com/UKWX_/status/1155878322167005190?s=20 

Chuffed with that. Furthermore Summer is basically over now so it's in the bag. Ready for Autumn and Winter madness now! 

 

[Aleman]

I've posted some discussion on the weather station siting thread based on this recent paper I've found about siting temperature sensors. Is suggests encroachment at 30m has moderate effects when averaged over the day and the year but significant ones in the worst conditions at specific times - like when records are set.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x12j51a7ws5riyd/Leeper impacts of small-scale urban encrochment.pdf?dl=0

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Aleman

[ItNeverSnowsInWindsor]

On 08/08/2019 at 23:08, Mark Clifford said:

I've been away from NetWeather for a while but I got the max temp spot on --> https://twitter.com/UKWX_/status/1155878322167005190?s=20 

Chuffed with that. Furthermore Summer is basically over now so it's in the bag. Ready for Autumn and Winter madness now! 

 

Can’t wait for Cold Week - Guess the temperature competition (hopefully this winter )