Summer 2019 - Moans, Ramps, Chat etc

[Wynn D Woo]

20 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

The met office have said no overnight records were broken, but they did mention this interesting phenomenon, a "heat burst"

 

Thats very interesting, thanks for posting this

[Mr Bartlettazores]

34 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

The met office have said no overnight records were broken, but they did mention this interesting phenomenon, a "heat burst"

 

That’s pretty spectacular! One of the MO Senior meteorologists even ruled this out initially before confirming it happened.

Also, there are reports that Brogdale Farm hit 38.4 degrees yesterday albeit not yet officially confirmed just yet. The BBC reported live from the site yesterday and it looks very much the same as previously with a thick tree boundary.  However, when questioned on Twitter, someone of the MO simply said it’s not one of their official sites now so presumably can’t take the July record.  However, I’d have thought the Stevenson Screen issues would have been improved compared to 2003 so issues impacting on readings may have been improved even if marginally. It just seems very inconsistent that it can’t have official readings now yet still has the all time record from 2003. So if confirmed, the hottest temperature yesterday should really be 38.4 degrees, or the previous record should be revoked. It just doesn’t sit right with me. I’ve asked a number of questions about the Brogdale site before and no one seems to give an answer. I also think the MO needs to give a very strong justification as to why it’s no longer an official site considering it’s importance for recorded high temperatures. I’m not sure their previous reasons are strongly justified with regards to its removal. I work in an industry where everything is evidence led and justified to the hilt under very close scrutiny so really there should be further scrutiny and debate around this site considering its readings (if officially confirmed) from yesterday. 

Maybe I should also wait to see what the MO officially says on this but it does raise possible consistency issues if not officially accepted. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Mr Bartlettazores

[Interitus]

16 hours ago, matty007 said:

I think 40c is the absolute limit. Without any cloud, I think it could have been achieved today. I mean, the Synoptics were as fierce as you can possibly get. Uppers were higher than 2003

Not getting 40c I can accept, but 38.5c really should have been breached. 

The fact the 2003 record is still in place when we had higher uppers today and a prime time of the year, is very disappointing from a record point of view 

Could've been worse - despite the widespread heat, temperatures of 30.6°C at Hawarden and Trawscoed were a whopping 4.6°C off the Wales record, just a typical hot summer's day.

 

13 hours ago, hillbilly said:

Just what I have said before,even in these warming times it is going to take something incredible to add 1.5 deg to that of 2003. There is every chance it will not happen either in my lifetime or even the younger generations lifetime.No doubt we will get another failed attempt in 2032

Belgium and the Netherlands just added roughly 2 degrees to their national records dating back to the 1940s from 38.8 and 38.6°C to 40.7°C.

On the one hand this could suggest that it would be well within scope to happen here....though on the other perhaps it re-establishes a natural 2 degree difference between their maximum and ours which was 36.7°C at Raunds and Canterbury in 1911 and has been closed in recent years.

[stainesbloke]

4 minutes ago, Interitus said:

Could've been worse - despite the widespread heat, temperatures of 30.6°C at Hawarden and Trawscoed were a whopping 4.6°C off the Wales record, just a typical hot summer's day.

 

Belgium and the Netherlands just added roughly 2 degrees to their national records dating back to the 1940s from 38.8 and 38.6°C to 40.7°C.

On the one hand this could suggest that it would be well within scope to happen here....though on the other perhaps it re-establishes a natural 2 degree difference between their maximum and ours which was 36.7°C at Raunds and Canterbury in 1911 and has been closed in recent years.

I think if it wasn’t for all the cloud moving in at a critical time, then SE England (Heathrow, in particular) would have broken the all time record and possibly hit 40C.

[Interitus]

1 hour ago, Mr Bartlettazores said:

That’s pretty spectacular! One of the MO Senior meteorologists even ruled this out initially before confirming it happened.

Also, there are reports that Brogdale Farm hit 38.4 degrees yesterday albeit not yet officially confirmed just yet. The BBC reported live from the site yesterday and it looks very much the same as previously with a thick tree boundary.  However, when questioned on Twitter, someone of the MO simply said it’s not one of their official sites now so presumably can’t take the July record.  However, I’d have thought the Stevenson Screen issues would have been improved compared to 2003 so issues impacting on readings may have been improved even if marginally. It just seems very inconsistent that it can’t have official readings now yet still has the all time record from 2003. So if confirmed, the hottest temperature yesterday should really be 38.4 degrees, or the previous record should be revoked. It just doesn’t sit right with me. I’ve asked a number of questions about the Brogdale site before and no one seems to give an answer. I also think the MO needs to give a very strong justification as to why it’s no longer an official site considering it’s importance for recorded high temperatures. I’m not sure their previous reasons are strongly justified with regards to its removal. I work in an industry where everything is evidence led and justified to the hilt under very close scrutiny so really there should be further scrutiny and debate around this site considering its readings (if officially confirmed) from yesterday. 

Maybe I should also wait to see what the MO officially says on this but it does raise possible consistency issues if not officially accepted. 

A good time to dig out the interesting and thorough analysis by Steven Burt and Philip Eden from the journal "Weather" - "The August 2003 heatwave in the United Kingdom. Part 2 - The hottest sites"

https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1256/wea.10.04B

Conclusion - the 2003 Faversham reading was considered to be 2 degrees higher than expected.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Interitus

[Yarmy]

24 minutes ago, Interitus said:

A good time to dig out the interesting and thorough analysis by Steven Burt and Philip Eden from the journal "Weather" - "The August 2003 heatwave in the United Kingdom. Part 2 - The hottest sites"

https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1256/wea.10.04B

Conclusion - the 2003 Faversham reading was considered to be 2 degrees higher than expected.

Reading that, the whole station network is too heterogeneous to make the concept of a UK temperature record high (or low) truly meaningful. I suppose it's the same with any record though: the 100m world record depends not only on the athlete, but also the track, the weather, the altitude, etc.

[mushymanrob]

12 hours ago, coldie said:

That was 48 years ago and yes it is impossible.

nonsense.... the maximum daily record temp for every day in january is above 14.9c . it might be highly unlikely, but 20c in january certainly IS possible.

[NTC]

Was the heat burst last night in Lincolnshire a record temp for that time of night 32c in Lincolnshire at anytime would be unusual and how often do heat bursts happen in UK?

[markyo]

A welcome relief today after the misery of yesterdays heat,good 10c drop already with welcome rain due this weekend. Much much better outlook as well,no repeat of yesterday anywhere near thank god.

[Interitus]

29 minutes ago, Yarmy said:

Reading that, the whole station network is too heterogeneous to make the concept of a UK temperature record high (or low) truly meaningful. I suppose it's the same with any record though: the 100m world record depends not only on the athlete, but also the track, the weather, the altitude, etc.

Yes well worth noting some discrepancies with regards some of the other readings. They proposed that the 38.1°C at Kew Gardens be the official record (thus equaled yesterday) though the screen height was too low which would produce an artificially high reading.

Gravesend's same value of 38.1°C originally thought to be the record was anomalous with readings from other dates and considered to be up to 1°C too high.

As is often suspected, Heathrow and Northolt are unrepresentative of non-airfield locations by perhaps 0.5°C.

The Wisley site has become more sheltered by a neighbouring orchard and now features more often in the tables of highest values - though of course if the orchard was there in the first place would it even be considered an issue?

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Interitus

[Interitus]

6 minutes ago, NTC said:

Was the heat burst last night in Lincolnshire a record temp for that time of night 32c in Lincolnshire at anytime would be unusual and how often do heat bursts happen in UK?

Purely guessing that they happen fairly frequently with suitable shower activity, but as they are very localised, getting them to coincide with an official recording station must be very unusual.

[NTC]

Just now, Interitus said:

Purely guessing that they happen fairly frequently with suitable shower activity, but as they are very localised, getting them to coincide with an official recording station must be very unusual.

So this could have happened in the daytime and could have in effect broke a record for 10 mins?

[Weather-history]

Was warm last night and evident that the nights are lengthening

 

[Summer Sun]

The heatwave warning has been removed from all regions apart from East of England where it remains level 3

Current watch level: Level 3 - Heatwave Action

Issued at: 09:46 on Fri 26 Jul 2019

There is a 90 % probability of heat health criteria being met between 0900 on Friday and 0900 on Saturday in parts of England.

Friday's temperatures expected to be 5-10 degrees lower than Thursday across much of England. With generally more cloud and showery rain in places, temperatures in most regions now not expected to reach trigger criteria. The exception will be eastern parts of Eastern England, where the warmest air will persist, and although increasingly showery, occasional sunny spells may allow temperatures to reach trigger criteria again. A warm and humid night to follow here, but Saturday expected to be mostly cloudy with some outbreaks of heavy rain.

An update will be issued when the alert level changes in any region. Alerts are issued once a day by 0900 if required and are not subject to amendment in between standard issue times. Note that the details of the forecast weather are valid at the time of issue but may change over the period that an alert remains in force. These details will not be updated here unless the alert level also changes, the latest forecast details can be obtained at the following link: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/#?tab=map 

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/heat-health/#?tab=heatHealth

[Interitus]

1 hour ago, NTC said:

So this could have happened in the daytime and could have in effect broke a record for 10 mins?

It's possible, but unlikely because the temperature is due to the air at high altitude descending to the surface and warming by compression. So all things being equal and the same heat burst occurred, to beat the record, the air at altitude would also have to be six or seven degrees warmer in the daytime than at night which isn't the case.

[Jordan S]

3 hours ago, Mr Bartlettazores said:

That’s pretty spectacular! One of the MO Senior meteorologists even ruled this out initially before confirming it happened.

Also, there are reports that Brogdale Farm hit 38.4 degrees yesterday albeit not yet officially confirmed just yet. The BBC reported live from the site yesterday and it looks very much the same as previously with a thick tree boundary.  However, when questioned on Twitter, someone of the MO simply said it’s not one of their official sites now so presumably can’t take the July record.  However, I’d have thought the Stevenson Screen issues would have been improved compared to 2003 so issues impacting on readings may have been improved even if marginally. It just seems very inconsistent that it can’t have official readings now yet still has the all time record from 2003. So if confirmed, the hottest temperature yesterday should really be 38.4 degrees, or the previous record should be revoked. It just doesn’t sit right with me. I’ve asked a number of questions about the Brogdale site before and no one seems to give an answer. I also think the MO needs to give a very strong justification as to why it’s no longer an official site considering it’s importance for recorded high temperatures. I’m not sure their previous reasons are strongly justified with regards to its removal. I work in an industry where everything is evidence led and justified to the hilt under very close scrutiny so really there should be further scrutiny and debate around this site considering its readings (if officially confirmed) from yesterday. 

Maybe I should also wait to see what the MO officially says on this but it does raise possible consistency issues if not officially accepted. 

Is the weather station that may of recorded 38.4c the same station that recorded 38.5c in 2003?

[cheese]

No lower than 21C last night, exceptional for here.

Beyond the potentially vile weekend, next week looks decent enough with low 20s temperatures and mostly dry. As long as it isn’t cool and wet.. last thing anyone needs is a washout holiday period.

Edited July 26, 2019 by cheese

[CheesepuffScott]

https://twitter.com/metoffice/status/1154754947197657088?s=21

[MATTWOLVES 3]

14 hours ago, matty007 said:

Despite me being understanding of others preferences, I don't think it's true to say that we couldn't 'deal' with it. It's simply the fact we are not 'used' to it. You see people unable to work and constantly complaining in this country if it gets over 30c, and yet people in the far east and many other places work in this everyday. It is as normal to them as 18c is to us. Do they have a special inbuilt heat tolerance? No, they are just accustomed to it.

Funny story. I went into Boots today and overheard a worker there saying that they can't do the stock checks because the manager is not there as it's too hot. He even went on to say it's a national problem....quiet ridiculous if you ask me. It's not even an outdoor job. They are inside with air conditioning.That's a big problem in this country, if it gets a little hot, things grind to a halt. A friend of mine even had an important package undelievered today because the courier couldn't work in the heat. Despite them having A/C in their vans

While I 100% understand that very high heat isn't for everyone, it really does make me chuckle when I hear Brits complaining that 25c is 'boiling' or too hot.

When you go to Spain they seem to be taking a nap most of the time, and when I went to Greece in the baking heat, they were doing nothing on the building sites during the afternoons... That suits me fine... Half day weeks....

[Summer Sun]

10c cooler here in Darlington than this time yesterday with a thunderstorm overhead and boy does it feels fresher now all windows wide open to get the stuffy rooms freshened up

[markyo]

15 hours ago, matty007 said:

While I 100% understand that very high heat isn't for everyone, it really does make me chuckle when I hear Brits complaining that 25c is 'boiling' or too hot.

It makes me chuckle when us Brits complain when 10c is cold, We all feel the weather differently i suppose though

Edited July 26, 2019 by markyo

[Mizzle]

OK. I know it's the Daily Fail, but just read this and wondered if anyone can verify it. It does quote the Met Office 

 

Record for hottest day 'provisionally broken'

https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/zHrdu

Sent via @updayUK

[B87]

I don't know anyone who thinks 25c is 'boiling'. It's a very common summer temperature. 10c in winter isn't cold, but if we get a 10c day in late October or when it starts to occur frequently in November, it can feel cold.

[Stabilo19]

Awaiting validation.. but *potentially* highest UK temperature on record in ... Cambridge 38.7 C!

Who said it was impossible for Cambridge to be the hottest place in the UK yesterday? 

[coldie]

3 minutes ago, Stabilo19 said:

Awaiting validation.. but *potentially* highest UK temperature on record in ... Cambridge 38.7 C!

Who said it was impossible for Cambridge to be the hottest place in the UK yesterday?