Positive changes: What kind of lifestyle changes are or might you be making going forward to help the planet?

[Sky Full]

10 hours ago, D.V.R said:

Indeed and I've always thought that myself but they are still more environmentally friendly than petrol or diesel.

I commute to work which is around 60 mpw during off-peak hours in a medium size petrol car..  add my trips to football training and matches ( depending where the matches are ) a full tank of petrol ( usually around £55 ) will lasts me just under two weeks. 

Your lower than average annual mileage is the key to this issue.  There can be no argument that electric cars are more environmentally friendly than petrol cars (although I am not so sure there is much difference between petrol and diesel overall).  But the problem is not with the type of engine fitted, it's the number of miles travelled each year by the car, and the number of people in it, that really counts.  A way needs to be found to reduce the overall number of miles driven by cars every year - that 2 mile return trip to the school, or to the shops, or the 10 mile commute when public transport is available for the same journey etc.  There is a problem with this of course - there is no bus service where I live and the nearest bus stop is over a mile and half away.  The nearest station is six miles away and the nearest with any kind of regular service is 10 miles away.  Ironically, half a mile away is the track bed of an old railway line closed in the 1960s for lack of profit......   If this was still open it would allow me and all the people living in villages on the route to get around without using a car.  There are thousands of miles of old railway no longer in use.  Perhaps it might be worth considering massive investment in expanding and improving the public transport system nationwide - not just in London.  New railways, tram systems and electric bus services serving all parts of the country, even the most remote villages, at very low or even free fares, regardless of cost or profit.  This is the only way to get people out of their cars and reduce overall emissions.  Mind you, none of this would be of any use unless the rest of the world followed suit.     Fat chance.

[Methuselah]

Try this one, folks...it's even suitable for those of us who don't own cars!

Carbon footprint calculator

WWW.CARBONINDEPENDENT.ORG

---

Get a rough estimate or an accurate calculation of your carbon dioxide and other emissions from electricity, gas, oil, car, bus, train, plane, food...

Mine was 7.1...

[Gowon]

My one was 12.6

I went to the Seychelles in April which cost me 6 tones of c02

[Sky Full]

10.51 here, over 4 tons to heat the house alone (oil and wood)! - but then we don't commute to work and we don't fly..... Obviously this is a very rough gauge of 'carbon footprint' but it would be good to see the results for some of the more high profile Extinction Rebellionists ......

I keep coming back to this - I can't see how any one, hundred, or indeed million of us individually reducing their carbon output by one or two points is going to make any difference.  It's going to take the governments of the USA, Canada, Russia, India, China, Brazil and a few European countries to make massive changes to their industries and travel infrastructure to reverse the present trend.  The odds are stacked against us,  I'm afraid.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Sky Full

[Snipper]

3 hours ago, Ed Stone said:

Try this one, folks...it's even suitable for those of us who don't own cars!

Carbon footprint calculator

WWW.CARBONINDEPENDENT.ORG

---

Get a rough estimate or an accurate calculation of your carbon dioxide and other emissions from electricity, gas, oil, car, bus, train, plane, food...

Mine was 7.1...

8.92 for me. 
 

Yet another questionnaire that is so vague related to what you do that the estimate must be very rough indeed. 

[cheeky_monkey]

4 hours ago, D.V.R said:

My one was 12.6

I went to the Seychelles in April which cost me 6 tones of c02

mine was 12.2 due to the fact in flew home in the summer..this will rise shortly as im flying back home at Xmas..will i stop flying..nope 

[ciel]

1 hour ago, Snipper said:

8.92 for me. 
 

Yet another questionnaire that is so vague related to what you do that the estimate must be very rough indeed. 

Well yes, but surely the purpose of these 'quizzes' is simply to raise awareness of an individual's personal CO2 footprint.

[Snipper]

7 minutes ago, ciel said:

Well yes, but surely the purpose of these 'quizzes' is simply to raise awareness of an individual's personal CO2 footprint.

Don’t disagree.

Big question is what can most of us do to have any effect?  How many trees do I plant so there would be a neutral carbon footprint by me driving to the garden centre to buy them?

As I grow trees from seed and cuttings my footprint would probably low.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Snipper

[cheeky_monkey]

China’s power industry calls for hundreds of new coal power plants by 2030

UNEARTHED.GREENPEACE.ORG

---

A new proposal from China's power producers' lobby group could see the country could add a large coal power plant every 2 weeks for the next 12 years.

is disheartening when you read stories like this

[Methuselah]

14 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

China’s power industry calls for hundreds of new coal power plants by 2030

UNEARTHED.GREENPEACE.ORG

---

A new proposal from China's power producers' lobby group could see the country could add a large coal power plant every 2 weeks for the next 12 years.

is disheartening when you read stories like this

And it's only mildly reassuring that, unlike the USA's current and ongoing love-affair with all things 'nutty', it's still only 'under consideration'?

Edited October 18, 2019 by Ed Stone

[cheeky_monkey]

18 minutes ago, Ed Stone said:

And it's only mildly reassuring that, unlike the USA's current and ongoing love-affair with all things 'nutty', it's still only 'under consideration'?

the USA is not planning to construct any new coal fired power stations though.

[BornFromTheVoid]

1 hour ago, cheeky_monkey said:

the USA is not planning to construct any new coal fired power stations though.

But Trump has scrapped loads of deep water drilling regulations and opened up an Arctic wildlife refuge in Alaska and the Beaufort sea to oil drilling.

[ciel]

I'll add this

The UK's new trade secretary met with US pressure groups to discuss weakening regulations

UNEARTHED.GREENPEACE.ORG

 

[cheeky_monkey]

1 hour ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

But Trump has scrapped loads of deep water drilling regulations and opened up an Arctic wildlife refuge in Alaska and the Beaufort sea to oil drilling.

so why is it when you mention anything about China and India its the usual head in sand with retorts what about the US doing this etc..fact is the US carbon output is not increasing year on year..without addressing the elephant in the room and make it a world problem and not just a western problem, then you can stop eating meat, resort to traveling by horse and cart and laying in the streets all you like ..it wont make a scrap of difference in the end

[BornFromTheVoid]

32 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

so why is it when you mention anything about China and India its the usual head in sand with retorts what about the US doing this etc..fact is the US carbon output is not increasing year on year..without addressing the elephant in the room and make it a world problem and not just a western problem, then you can stop eating meat, resort to traveling by horse and cart and laying in the streets all you like ..it wont make a scrap of difference in the end

You made out that the US isn't doing anything like what the Chinese are planning, but they are. Different hydrocarbon, same result for the climate.
It's not head in the sand. Well aware that global action needs to start somewhere. The Montreal Protocol is proof of what can be achieved with global cooperation working off scientific, expert consensus. If we all sit around complaining that we won't pull the finger out until all of China and India has, then no progress will be made.

[Midlands Ice Age]

On 17/10/2019 at 17:42, cheeky_monkey said:

how would Bono etc get to travel the world telling us all why we are all bad people for daring to drive to work...

I see the ER put out a 'paper' stating how successful their last 2 weeks have been and signed by many signatories.

The following is an analysis of their scientific skills which they believe are driving their aims.

What an amazing list.

193 names by my count and only one scientist and one mathematician.
The role of Science is to establish that which is false.
Science has given Art a worldwide voice and the means to become very influential.

It is a pity that Art has not yet learnt how to be humble or to understand that belief is no substitute for knowledge.

The groups in order of size are: –

Musician/Singer 44
Actor 27
Artist 24
Author/Playwright/Writer 19
Director 11
Designer 9
Architect 8
Media/Broadcaster 8
Producer 8
Founder/Entrepreneur 6
Film/Photographer 5
Comedian 4
Fashion 3
Model 3
Activist 2
Anthropologist 2
Curator 2
Theatre 2
Conservationist 1
Economist 1
Mathematician 1
Philosopher 1
Scientist 1
Theologian 1

I refuse to consider the 'total air mileage' accrued by this motley crew over the last year.

Are they really the correct people that we need to be planning the future of humanity for us?.

MIA

.

[DAVID SNOW]

At least the 4 comedians should be able to raise a laugh? Gallows humour lol.

Anyway, India and China have populations close to 1.4 BILLION and will continue to rise, they will need to continue to produce 'stuff' and more and more and more, is the UK going to tell them to stop?

[Devonian]

19 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

I see the ER put out a 'paper' stating how successful their last 2 weeks have been and signed by many signatories.

The following is an analysis of their scientific skills which they believe are driving their aims.

What an amazing list.

193 names by my count and only one scientist and one mathematician.
The role of Science is to establish that which is false.
Science has given Art a worldwide voice and the means to become very influential.

It is a pity that Art has not yet learnt how to be humble or to understand that belief is no substitute for knowledge.

The groups in order of size are: –

Musician/Singer 44
Actor 27
Artist 24
Author/Playwright/Writer 19
Director 11
Designer 9
Architect 8
Media/Broadcaster 8
Producer 8
Founder/Entrepreneur 6
Film/Photographer 5
Comedian 4
Fashion 3
Model 3
Activist 2
Anthropologist 2
Curator 2
Theatre 2
Conservationist 1
Economist 1
Mathematician 1
Philosopher 1
Scientist 1
Theologian 1

I refuse to consider the 'total air mileage' accrued by this motley crew over the last year.

Are they really the correct people that we need to be planning the future of humanity for us?.

MIA

.

XR are trying to draw to the attentions of a largely unconcerned humanity (even people interested in weather, here, are largely unconcerned and mostly just shrug) the reality that our world is being damaged and degraded at an ever faster pace.

I don't think 'we're all going to die' but I am sure that (if we carry on as we are - and it seems we will) that the world will be ever more damaged and degraded and ever faster. It IS going to happen - insult me all you like, it is going to happen because the mood of humanity is more in tune with those who attack the messenger than the messengers..

And its not just climate change: loss of habitat and species, ever more plastic, ever less fish, ever less ice, ever higher sea levels, ever more CO2, ever more cars, ever more pollution, ever less trees - only a handful (even here, in a place which should, for example, understand climate) of people are the slightest bit realistic about what we need to do - and I include myself in that criticism...

I applaud XRs efforts - that nothing will be done (and in no small part because of the way you and you ilk rubbish people like XR) is an 'achievement' people like you can contemplate over coming years...

Oh, 'the role of science'? Is it not to observe and to collect data? Not according to you it isn't...

 

[Devonian]

10 minutes ago, DAVID SNOW said:

At least the 4 comedians should be able to raise a laugh? Gallows humour lol.

Anyway, India and China have populations close to 1.4 BILLION and will continue to rise, they will need to continue to produce 'stuff' and more and more and more, is the UK going to tell them to stop?

No, of course not. But, by your logic, because people get robbed in countries we also have no control of that means we should not disapprove of robbery and not do something about robbery here?

Journeys start with single steps...

[viking_smb]

no changes whatsoever and don't plan to either - simple

[DAVID SNOW]

4 minutes ago, Devonian said:

No, of course not. But, by your logic, because people get robbed in countries we also have no control of that means we should not disapprove of robbery and not do something about robbery here?

Journeys start with single steps...

The global population is out of control and it needs stuff continuously and then more and more and more.....

Single steps made by the uk aint gonna change a thing.

[Devonian]

Just now, DAVID SNOW said:

The global population is out of control and it needs stuff continuously and then more and more and more.....

Single steps made by the uk aint gonna change a thing.

Perhaps we should remove all pollution controls then? let the rivers fill with sewerage? Then take catalytic converters out of cars? Tear down wind farms, and take solar panels down too and build more coal powered power stations? While we're about it we could pull up all the railways and put down roads in their places.

Because, nothing we do changes a thing - right?

[Methuselah]

52 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

I see the ER put out a 'paper' stating how successful their last 2 weeks have been and signed by many signatories.

The following is an analysis of their scientific skills which they believe are driving their aims.

What an amazing list.

193 names by my count and only one scientist and one mathematician.
The role of Science is to establish that which is false.
Science has given Art a worldwide voice and the means to become very influential.

It is a pity that Art has not yet learnt how to be humble or to understand that belief is no substitute for knowledge.

The groups in order of size are: –

Musician/Singer 44
Actor 27
Artist 24
Author/Playwright/Writer 19
Director 11
Designer 9
Architect 8
Media/Broadcaster 8
Producer 8
Founder/Entrepreneur 6
Film/Photographer 5
Comedian 4
Fashion 3
Model 3
Activist 2
Anthropologist 2
Curator 2
Theatre 2
Conservationist 1
Economist 1
Mathematician 1
Philosopher 1
Scientist 1
Theologian 1

I refuse to consider the 'total air mileage' accrued by this motley crew over the last year.

Are they really the correct people that we need to be planning the future of humanity for us?.

MIA

Gee whizz, MIA...that's one heck of a big tin of red herrings. Even for you!

[Midlands Ice Age]

3 minutes ago, Devonian said:

XR are trying to draw to the attentions of a largely unconcerned humanity (even people interested in weather, here, are largely unconcerned and mostly just shrug) the reality that our world is being damaged and degraded at an ever faster pace.

I don't think 'we're all going to die' but I am sure that (if we carry on as we are - and it seems we will) that the world will be ever more damaged and degraded and ever faster. It IS going to happen - insult me all you like, it is going to happen because the mood of humanity is more in tune with those who attack the messenger than the messengers..

And its not just climate change: loss of habitat and species, ever more plastic, ever less fish, ever less ice, ever higher sea levels, ever more CO2, ever more cars, ever more pollution, ever less trees - only a handful (even here, in a place which should, for example, understand climate) of people are the slightest bit realistic about what we need to do - and I include myself in that criticism...

I applaud XRs efforts - that nothing will be done (and in no small part because of the way you and you ilk rubbish people like XR) is an 'achievement' people like you can contemplate over coming years...

Oh, 'the role of science'? Is it not to observe and to collect data? Not according to you it isn't...

 

Dev..

 Thanks for the above parts of your statement.

I can totally agree with certain parts of your statement.(highlighted above),

However the last sentence of your reply, is totally incorrect.

I have been the one on here who has 'recommended' that we need to spend the next 10 years  collecting the data; improving the models and understanding all facets of climatology;  this before we make any decisions about whether we choose to try and change our climate,  or whether we 'panic' and go about making changes to our society based simply upon climate models.

These models are not 'science' and until all parameters have been resolved and understood they must be treated with extreme caution. Currently the average of these models is forecasting 0.3-0.4C changes per decade although no decade has actually observed such a rate of change. We are still down at around 1C per decade.

I understand that the next IPCC papers will be increasing this even further.

Models are NOT  science and until they are totally defined, I continue to believe that they are not actual 'data'.

You seem to be the one not prepared to accept the 'actual'  data approach.

MIA 

[Sky Full]

25 minutes ago, Devonian said:

No, of course not. But, by your logic, because people get robbed in countries we also have no control of that means we should not disapprove of robbery and not do something about robbery here?  Journeys start with single steps...

I agree with your sentiments entirely and I think we are trying to do things in this country - introducing electric cars as fast as we can, decommissioning old coal fired power stations in favour of ever increasing wind and solar power, fitting low energy light bulbs in all homes and business premises, improving (slowly) our recycling habits etc.  I'm sure we can all think of other examples.  It is therefore frustrating to hear about the intentions of other large countries who seem to be ignoring the impact their actions might have on the climate.  That some of these countries are under-developed compared with us makes it very difficult for us to criticise them - either we must allow them to raise their economies to the same levels as our own, or we must downgrade our own standards of living, diet and lifestyles to match theirs.  Only then can we criticise without hypocrisy.  But it's not going to happen because we love our lifestyles too much to want to give anything up....

Edited October 18, 2019 by Sky Full