Positive changes: What kind of lifestyle changes are or might you be making going forward to help the planet?

[Gray-Wolf]

'Positive changes' eh?

How about the deconstruction of the global economic model that brought us beyond the precipice?

It WILL occur but sadly only once the first big 'Black Swan' hits home and folk finally have their 'fight or flight' response triggered?

Sad that ,as we evolve as a species, we have not 'updated' the threats we respond to? Now we can peep into our immediate future the sight of such potential doom should have us all clamouring for change but 'no' , here we sit , our hands firmly placed below our bums!

The 'Economist' tells us 1/3 rd of 'Global Capital' is absent..... just not their, vamoosed , gone

1/3 rd is hidden in offshore accounts and of the final 1/3 rd , which we use to run our world, 80% is in the hands of the richest 10% of Global Population.......

Again , nothing from the People.

It's as if they do not care and happily buy into the 'No Money Trees' philosophy if it means they can continue 'hand sitting'?

There is a bloody rainforrest of Money trees out there & that money could save so much of our World now doomed by 'Their' action and compounded by 'Our' innaction?

Positive changes to change our world?

 

Play 'Them' at 'Their' own game,

Beat 'Them'

Smash the game so it can never be played again!!!

 

Avante!

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Gray-Wolf

[Devonian]

2 hours ago, Gray-Wolf said:

'Positive changes' eh?

How about the deconstruction of the global economic model that brought us beyond the precipice?

It WILL occur but sadly only once the first big 'Black Swan' hits home and folk finally have their 'fight or flight' response triggered?

Sad that ,as we evolve as a species, we have not 'updated' the threats we respond to? Now we can peep into our immediate future the sight of such potential doom should have us all clamouring for change but 'no' , here we sit , our hands firmly placed below our bums!

The 'Economist' tells us 1/3 rd of 'Global Capital' is absent..... just not their, vamoosed , gone

1/3 rd is hidden in offshore accounts and of the final 1/3 rd , which we use to run our world, 80% is in the hands of the richest 10% of Global Population.......

Again , nothing from the People.

It's as if they do not care and happily buy into the 'No Money Trees' philosophy if it means they can continue 'hand sitting'?

There is a bloody rainforrest of Money trees out there & that money could save so much of our World now doomed by 'Their' action and compounded by 'Our' innaction?

Positive changes to change our world?

 

Play 'Them' at 'Their' own game,

Beat 'Them'

Smash the game so it can never be played again!!!

 

Avante!

 

 

A bit of political deja vu there GW

[Gray-Wolf]

Sorry Dev but the action needed (as I understand things today?) means that we need to overhaul the way the world is run for us to stand a chance of meaningful mitigation?

Greta spoke true about the 'fairytales' of permanent economic growth & exploitation of natural resources

We need to get serious about keeping the folk of our world fed ,housed & powered whilst we turn Global wealth onto solving the problems we ALL face

Once 'science' solves the issues of raw materials and waste we can again see us in a period of accelerated sustainable consumerism but until then we must engage with the problems we ALL face and the current Capitalist NeoLib economic model will not fit the remit

You know my preference for the basic economic system that would best serve our world & it is based on caring and sharing ( nicely!)

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Gray-Wolf

[SW Saltire]

14 hours ago, Gray-Wolf said:

Sorry Dev but the action needed (as I understand things today?) means that we need to overhaul the way the world is run for us to stand a chance of meaningful mitigation?

Greta spoke true about the 'fairytales' of permanent economic growth & exploitation of natural resources

We need to get serious about keeping the folk of our world fed ,housed & powered whilst we turn Global wealth onto solving the problems we ALL face

Once 'science' solves the issues of raw materials and waste we can again see us in a period of accelerated sustainable consumerism but until then we must engage with the problems we ALL face and the current Capitalist NeoLib economic model will not fit the remit

You know my preference for the basic economic system that would best serve our world & it is based on caring and sharing ( nicely!)

 

We have elections in this country and a very small minority would share such left-wing thinking... (in terms of ‘redistribution of wealth’).

 

I do think we need improvements with the transport sector for example but the government need to provide funding to facilitate this.

Where I work, 50 miles from my house, only got 3G in early 2018 i’m led to believe.

 

So what chance is there of me switching to a hybrid/electric vehicle (given I do north of 22,000 miles a year in my car)? There are no charging points. There just isn’t the infrastructure.

Even if I didn’t work shifts, public transport is almost non-existent.  

 

Rant over. I suppose the point i’m making here is because I do feel guilty a bit but there’s no solution for me as someone trying to save up 20/25k for a deposit for a tiny house in Edinburgh... I can’t spend 10k on a ‘green’ car. I thought when i bought my diesel that was quite ‘green’ at that time....

But it’s very nice of Greta to blame me. She has lots of experience of the real world at the grand old age of 16.

[BornFromTheVoid]

7 hours ago, SW Saltire said:

We have elections in this country and a very small minority would share such left-wing thinking... (in terms of ‘redistribution of wealth’).

 

I do think we need improvements with the transport sector for example but the government need to provide funding to facilitate this.

Where I work, 50 miles from my house, only got 3G in early 2018 i’m led to believe.

 

So what chance is there of me switching to a hybrid/electric vehicle (given I do north of 22,000 miles a year in my car)? There are no charging points. There just isn’t the infrastructure.

Even if I didn’t work shifts, public transport is almost non-existent.  

 

Rant over. I suppose the point i’m making here is because I do feel guilty a bit but there’s no solution for me as someone trying to save up 20/25k for a deposit for a tiny house in Edinburgh... I can’t spend 10k on a ‘green’ car. I thought when i bought my diesel that was quite ‘green’ at that time....

But it’s very nice of Greta to blame me. She has lots of experience of the real world at the grand old age of 16.

The guilt and anger directed towards her wouldn't be there if she wasn't right. Her main scathing comments are directed towards business and political leaders though, which it should be. Ordinary people have to live within the system we find ourselves in. Few of us have the time, money or energy to make any real difference beyond relieving our own senses of guilt by making minor, ineffectual changes to our lives.
This is why I think Greta should be commended. She is actually doing something beyond changes in her own life. She's causing people to think more about climate change than politicians, newspaper articles or nature documentaries have thus far. And she's taking the personal and pathetic attacks on her better than the vast majority of adults ever would.

[Devonian]

7 hours ago, SW Saltire said:

We have elections in this country and a very small minority would share such left-wing thinking... (in terms of ‘redistribution of wealth’).

 

I do think we need improvements with the transport sector for example but the government need to provide funding to facilitate this.

Where I work, 50 miles from my house, only got 3G in early 2018 i’m led to believe.

 

So what chance is there of me switching to a hybrid/electric vehicle (given I do north of 22,000 miles a year in my car)? There are no charging points. There just isn’t the infrastructure.

Even if I didn’t work shifts, public transport is almost non-existent.  

 

Rant over. I suppose the point i’m making here is because I do feel guilty a bit but there’s no solution for me as someone trying to save up 20/25k for a deposit for a tiny house in Edinburgh... I can’t spend 10k on a ‘green’ car. I thought when i bought my diesel that was quite ‘green’ at that time....

But it’s very nice of Greta to blame me. She has lots of experience of the real world at the grand old age of 16.

Which, to me, illustrates why its a problem and why planetary degradation has only just begun. Because for must of us it is impossible to change.  But, there are consequences of that impossibility we, you me all of us, will face - and costs greater than the impossible ones you me and the rest face now.

What price is the environment? What future do we want? We've chosen to take a chance, to ignore the warning and implications of rock solid science and evidence. In a way I don't mind (what can one man do?)  though I still object to people wrecking MY planet because they have 'no option' other than to do so.

[Snipper]

If you remove the “rich” how many jobs would there be for the rest of us?

[SW Saltire]

1 hour ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

The guilt and anger directed towards her wouldn't be there if she wasn't right. Her main scathing comments are directed towards business and political leaders though, which it should be. Ordinary people have to live within the system we find ourselves in. Few of us have the time, money or energy to make any real difference beyond relieving our own senses of guilt by making minor, ineffectual changes to our lives.
This is why I think Greta should be commended. She is actually doing something beyond changes in her own life. She's causing people to think more about climate change than politicians, newspaper articles or nature documentaries have thus far. And she's taking the personal and pathetic attacks on her better than the vast majority of adults ever would.

Can’t disagree with a lot of that. 

However I think there’s a large disconnect, if that was largely her message, between what she said and what people have interpreted she was saying.

I’m going to attempt to explain what I mean.

Concisely, through speaking to family, friends and work colleagues/my superiors - almost all of whom hold respectable job positions and/or are well educated - Most feel Greta is working for vested interests. The climate change ‘agenda’.

Almost all have taken the: vegan argument, ‘don’t eat red meat cos you’ll die of cancer’, ‘don’t fly, drive a diesel’ etc etc to be personal attacks which they’ve now tuned out of listening to.

Some of my collegues firmly deny climate change is man made at all. I do try and tactfully challenge those viewpoints but its hardly like i’m going to succeed.

 

I know what my point is here but i’m struggling to effectively articulate it. I think what i’m saying is it feels like people have very entrenched viewpoints and I don’t really see a way of us improving that.

[SW Saltire]

1 hour ago, Devonian said:

Which, to me, illustrates why its a problem and why planetary degradation has only just begun. Because for must of us it is impossible to change.  But, there are consequences of that impossibility we, you me all of us, will face - and costs greater than the impossible ones you me and the rest face now.

What price is the environment? What future do we want? We've chosen to take a chance, to ignore the warning and implications of rock solid science and evidence. In a way I don't mind (what can one man do?)  though I still object to people wrecking MY planet because they have 'no option' other than to do so.

Identifying the problems are far easier than the solutions. 

To be honest, certainly here in Scotland, we are meeting our targets. 

We need China, India, USA, Nigeria etc to pull their weight.

Ultimately, we CANNOT sustain 10 billion people on this earth and eventually malthusian theory will be proved ‘right’ and the population will fall correcting itself.

1 hour ago, Snipper said:

If you remove the “rich” how many jobs would there be for the rest of us?

Exactly. I don’t get this wild socialist idealism. 

If someone is wealthy it is their money to do with how they wish.

I really don’t think the ‘system’ is particularly broken. I’m only 23 and on a pretty good wage to be honest, I have a great standard of living currently and I am also in a position of responsibility/power.

[jonboy]

1 hour ago, SW Saltire said:

Identifying the problems are far easier than the solutions. 

To be honest, certainly here in Scotland, we are meeting our targets. 

We need China, India, USA, Nigeria etc to pull their weight.

Ultimately, we CANNOT sustain 10 billion people on this earth and eventually malthusian theory will be proved ‘right’ and the population will fall correcting itself.

Exactly. I don’t get this wild socialist idealism. 

If someone is wealthy it is their money to do with how they wish.

I really don’t think the ‘system’ is particularly broken. I’m only 23 and on a pretty good wage to be honest, I have a great standard of living currently and I am also in a position of responsibility/power.

Were do you get 10 billion from. World population stands at 7.7 billion and only the extreme models have it pushing up towards 10 and above. We are already seeing a decline in developed countries and as I have stated many times before as the developing countries become wealthier and health improves within two or three generations you see a downward change in birth rates as child mortality rates fall.

We do need to stop taking the easy way out and take more responsibility for our actions and as an example we should ensure we deal with our own waste here in the uk and not send it oversees for someone else to deal with who then dump it in our oceans. If we all saw vast piles of waste perhaps we wouldn't produce so much or demand the materials used could be recycled. Greta is right in as much we do need to take greater responsibility for what and how we consume and understand the impact we have on our planet

[SW Saltire]

1 hour ago, jonboy said:

Were do you get 10 billion from. World population stands at 7.7 billion and only the extreme models have it pushing up towards 10 and above. We are already seeing a decline in developed countries and as I have stated many times before as the developing countries become wealthier and health improves within two or three generations you see a downward change in birth rates as child mortality rates fall.

We do need to stop taking the easy way out and take more responsibility for our actions and as an example we should ensure we deal with our own waste here in the uk and not send it oversees for someone else to deal with who then dump it in our oceans. If we all saw vast piles of waste perhaps we wouldn't produce so much or demand the materials used could be recycled. Greta is right in as much we do need to take greater responsibility for what and how we consume and understand the impact we have on our planet

The United Nations report which states world population will be at 9.7 billion by 2050. I’ve hardly plucked that figure from wikipedia.

Growth is falling quite slowly overall - 1.14%, 1.12% and 1.08% this year thus far. That’s 82 million exta people per year currently. You don’t have to be a mathematician to quicky work out by 2050 that’s us at 10 billion.

 

Who is ‘we’? Africa? USA? China? 

Or is this just a UK/Europe thing like it currently seems to be...

 

My point is, population seems to be a fact we tip toe around. The bottom line is we need to have less people on this earth. Really we should be limiting how many children people can have but I don’t imagine that’s particularly palatable to the general population.

 

Don’t disagree but how are we doing that? Taxes in my country are already some of the highest in Europe. I lose over £1000 a month in deductions from my gross pay, I wouldn’t mind paying a bit more but I need that cash to get on the property ladder. Sadly Mummy and Daddy are not super rich.

 

Again, aye fine. A lovely utopian, idealistic viewpoint from a 16 year old, in reality she has not a clue how to implement those ideas

Edited October 2, 2019 by SW Saltire

[Methuselah]

Clearly, children are no longer brought-up 'proper': where have all those good old-fashioned 'virtues' (the ones what made Britain great, like knowing-one's-place and subservience) gone to? Everybody knows that adolescents, especially when they be of the female persuasion, should be 'seen and not heard'!

A young lassie, who clearly knows more than your average gammon, dares to tell the unvarnished truth, and it's, Good God, no! It just isn't cricket!

But, in contrast to some of the more comical claims, it's nowt to do with stereotyping age-groups: Greta might be only sixteen but Sir David certainly isn't...?

Edited October 2, 2019 by Ed Stone

[BornFromTheVoid]

I think folks should consider why we don't hear climate scientists calling out Greta Thurnberg? Just the usual right wing bloggers and politicians. Then consider with whom your own opinions more closely align.
 

[weirpig]

26 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

I think folks should consider why we don't hear climate scientists calling out Greta Thurnberg? Just the usual right wing bloggers and politicians. Then consider with whom your own opinions more closely align.
 

Eh?  This is why  Nothing will happen with climate  change   such a narrow view its almost shocking.    Of course Climate Scientists dont call out Greta  Why would they  she is in a fashion getting the message across . Myself personally  i dont call her out for highlighting the issues/problems    What i do though  is call out the hypocrisy of her followers   The  lack of understanding in how we get to her aims.  the obvious (in my opinion0 untouchable nature   that anyone dare question her motives or understanding of issues.   Its like a Cult she is developing   which may be great for her supporters  and followers    but the rest of the ordinary public  will grow tired and wary  of it.     But hey we all have to pick sides by the look of it. 

[SteveB]

52 minutes ago, weirpig said:

Eh?  This is why  Nothing will happen with climate  change   such a narrow view its almost shocking.    Of course Climate Scientists dont call out Greta  Why would they  she is in a fashion getting the message across . Myself personally  i dont call her out for highlighting the issues/problems    What i do though  is call out the hypocrisy of her followers   The  lack of understanding in how we get to her aims.  the obvious (in my opinion0 untouchable nature   that anyone dare question her motives or understanding of issues.   Its like a Cult she is developing   which may be great for her supporters  and followers    but the rest of the ordinary public  will grow tired and wary  of it.     But hey we all have to pick sides by the look of it. 

Great post!

[Methuselah]

52 minutes ago, weirpig said:

Its like a Cult she is developing   which may be great for her supporters  and followers    but the rest of the ordinary public  will grow tired and wary  of it.     But hey we all have to pick sides by the look of it. 

Will 'the ordinary public' really tire, though? After all, the less-than-savoury cults of Nigel, Boris, Trump and Jezzer are still keeping us divided... IMO, the idea of a benign cult is cause for optimism?

[BornFromTheVoid]

1 hour ago, weirpig said:

Eh?  This is why  Nothing will happen with climate  change   such a narrow view its almost shocking.    Of course Climate Scientists dont call out Greta  Why would they  she is in a fashion getting the message across . Myself personally  i dont call her out for highlighting the issues/problems    What i do though  is call out the hypocrisy of her followers   The  lack of understanding in how we get to her aims.  the obvious (in my opinion0 untouchable nature   that anyone dare question her motives or understanding of issues.   Its like a Cult she is developing   which may be great for her supporters  and followers    but the rest of the ordinary public  will grow tired and wary  of it.     But hey we all have to pick sides by the look of it. 

Seems we're discussing her here without any major issues. The people I see resorting to cult like attacks are those that disagree with her.
What would you consider a "follower" of her? All I see is people attempting to explain her positions and defend her from unnecessary attacks and uninformed criticisms. This seems like a classic case of projection to me.

[weirpig]

14 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

Seems we're discussing her here without any major issues. The people I see resorting to cult like attacks are those that disagree with her.
What would you consider a "follower" of her? All I see is people attempting to explain her positions and defend her from unnecessary attacks and uninformed criticisms. This seems like a classic case of projection to me.

Earth is warming  faster than it ever has done   many Scientists believe  that within a decade or so it may be to late to reverse the process   in other words after that date we are buggered.    We all Know the situation  most people  agree that we are in need of change and quick  I and many others can chant this from the rooftops   but alas that will not alter nothing.  What we need is a plan  a coordinated assault that us as a world can do to stem the problem in a very short amount of time.  Travelling to America in a boat  skipping school on a fridays  demonstartions around city centres  will not change this.  Greta  is a PR dream  for highlighting the cause of Climate change  but what she does not do is give us a plan  on how to stop it.  Visiting Countries and lambasting leaders of countries  is all well and good  but the fact stays the same  that IMo to stop or even stem climate change  our lives will have to change  beyond  our wildest dreams.  something the vast people of the west just will not do.  Rebillion are on the other side of the Spectrum   they give us their solutions to combat climate change  but their plans will never work  because that would result in all of us to stop flying and over 30 million cars to be removed from the street within the next 3 years.  People are also very cynical of Greta  (not her fault)  But when you have a girl who is the parents of a famous singer and a father and grandfather who are both actors and film directors  Plus a young singer in the form of her sister  eyebrows will be raised   Of course when you add on that one of her most vocal supporters is a member of the swedish parliament  whos main  business is  Green energy supplies  it does not make it any easier.     If Greta is our only hope  then im afraid the earth will burn.      

Edited October 2, 2019 by weirpig

[Methuselah]

21 minutes ago, weirpig said:

Earth is warming  faster than it ever has done   many Scientists believe  that within a decade or so it may be to late to reverse the process   in other words after that date we are buggered.    We all Know the situation  most people  agree that we are in need of change and quick  I and many others can chant this from the rooftops   but alas that will not alter nothing.  What we need is a plan  a coordinated assault that us as a world can do to stem the problem in a very short amount of time.  Travelling to America in a boat  skipping school on a fridays  demonstartions around city centres  will not change this.  Greta  is a PR dream  for highlighting the cause of Climate change  but what she does not do is give us a plan  on how to stop it.  Visiting Countries and lambasting leaders of countries  is all well and good  but the fact stays the same  that IMo to stop or even stem climate change  our lives will have to change  beyond  our wildest dreams.  something the vast people of the west just will not do.  Rebillion are on the other side of the Spectrum   they give us their solutions to combat climate change  but their plans will never work  because that would result in all of us to stop flying and over 30 million cars to be removed from the street within the next 3 years.  People are also very cynical of Greta  (not her fault)  But when you have a girl who is the parents of a famous singer and a father and grandfather who are both actors and film directors  Plus a young singer in the form of her sister  eyebrows will be raised   Of course when you add on that one of her most vocal supporters is a member of the swedish parliament  whos main  business is  Green energy supplies  it does not make it any easier.     If Greta is our only hope  then im afraid the earth will burn.      

Och well! 

[weirpig]

Just now, Ed Stone said:

Och well! 

No Idea.    What number of the cult are you ?.

[Devonian]

1 hour ago, weirpig said:

Earth is warming  faster than it ever has done   many Scientists believe  that within a decade or so it may be to late to reverse the process   in other words after that date we are buggered.    We all Know the situation  most people  agree that we are in need of change and quick  I and many others can chant this from the rooftops   but alas that will not alter nothing.  What we need is a plan  a coordinated assault that us as a world can do to stem the problem in a very short amount of time.  Travelling to America in a boat  skipping school on a fridays  demonstartions around city centres  will not change this.  Greta  is a PR dream  for highlighting the cause of Climate change  but what she does not do is give us a plan  on how to stop it.  Visiting Countries and lambasting leaders of countries  is all well and good  but the fact stays the same  that IMo to stop or even stem climate change  our lives will have to change  beyond  our wildest dreams.  something the vast people of the west just will not do.  Rebillion are on the other side of the Spectrum   they give us their solutions to combat climate change  but their plans will never work  because that would result in all of us to stop flying and over 30 million cars to be removed from the street within the next 3 years.  People are also very cynical of Greta  (not her fault)  But when you have a girl who is the parents of a famous singer and a father and grandfather who are both actors and film directors  Plus a young singer in the form of her sister  eyebrows will be raised   Of course when you add on that one of her most vocal supporters is a member of the swedish parliament  whos main  business is  Green energy supplies  it does not make it any easier.     If Greta is our only hope  then im afraid the earth will burn.      

 

What you seem to be saying is 'we need to do X, but the people wont do X so we need a plan that does X without doing X'.

[Devonian]

50 minutes ago, weirpig said:

No Idea.    What number of the cult are you ?.

Poor response. You can do better.

[weirpig]

2 hours ago, Devonian said:

Poor response. You can do better.

It was better  rubbish pretext 

[cheeky_monkey]

7 hours ago, weirpig said:

Earth is warming  faster than it ever has done   many Scientists believe  that within a decade or so it may be to late to reverse the process   in other words after that date we are buggered.    We all Know the situation  most people  agree that we are in need of change and quick  I and many others can chant this from the rooftops   but alas that will not alter nothing.  What we need is a plan  a coordinated assault that us as a world can do to stem the problem in a very short amount of time.  Travelling to America in a boat  skipping school on a fridays  demonstartions around city centres  will not change this.  Greta  is a PR dream  for highlighting the cause of Climate change  but what she does not do is give us a plan  on how to stop it.  Visiting Countries and lambasting leaders of countries  is all well and good  but the fact stays the same  that IMo to stop or even stem climate change  our lives will have to change  beyond  our wildest dreams.  something the vast people of the west just will not do.  Rebillion are on the other side of the Spectrum   they give us their solutions to combat climate change  but their plans will never work  because that would result in all of us to stop flying and over 30 million cars to be removed from the street within the next 3 years.  People are also very cynical of Greta  (not her fault)  But when you have a girl who is the parents of a famous singer and a father and grandfather who are both actors and film directors  Plus a young singer in the form of her sister  eyebrows will be raised   Of course when you add on that one of her most vocal supporters is a member of the swedish parliament  whos main  business is  Green energy supplies  it does not make it any easier.     If Greta is our only hope  then im afraid the earth will burn.      

the problem here is many scientists have been saying this since the late 1980s and we all know the story of the boy who cried wolf??..what happens in 10 years if the world looks exactly the same as now and floods, droughts, hurricanes and tornadoes are no different to now? what if eco systems don't collapse? what if people aren't dying in their millions?...yes the world is getting warmer but is the Apocalypse being branded around really going to happen? whats the real story here behind the alarmist headlines? if we could sort the wheat from the chaff then maybe we can come up with some real world solutions?

[Devonian]

8 hours ago, cheeky_monkey said:

the problem here is many scientists have been saying this since the late 1980s and we all know the story of the boy who cried wolf??..what happens in 10 years if the world looks exactly the same as now and floods, droughts, hurricanes and tornadoes are no different to now? what if eco systems don't collapse? what if people aren't dying in their millions?...yes the world is getting warmer but is the Apocalypse being branded around really going to happen? whats the real story here behind the alarmist headlines? if we could sort the wheat from the chaff then maybe we can come up with some real world solutions?

In ten years time? A warmer world and a world more obviously degraded - and all as has been predicted.

What is the real story behind the sceptic headlines? Why don't people want to see the bleeding obvious?