Arctic Sea Ice - The Melting Season 2019

[SMU]

4 minutes ago, Devonian said:

 

If we've reached the years low ice extent it would be a record early date for that. I doubt we have reached that minimum.

Loss of 17 yesterday so yes still dribs & drabs of loss at the moment -

[SMU]

Big loss yesterday -42k

[Thundery wintry showers]

Yes, we have a pool of anomalous warmth extending from Siberia into the Barents/Kara Sea region and towards the north of Greenland at present, which may be largely responsible for the accelerated melt:

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/de/topkarten.php?map=2&model=ecm&var=34&time=0&run=0&lid=OP&h=0&mv=0&tr=24

The loss should slow down again in the next few days though as a low with cold circulation develops close to the pole, but it's looking increasingly unlikely IMHO that the minimum will be 5th or 6th lowest now - it will almost certainly be between 2nd and 4th, and if I had to place a bet it would be on 2nd lowest.

[Kirkcaldy Weather]

https://www.insider.com/pictures-show-melting-arctic-ice-after-summer-heatwave-2019-8

 

[Kirkcaldy Weather]

https://truthout.org/articles/alaskas-sea-ice-completely-melted-for-first-time-in-recorded-history/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-49483580

[Methuselah]

A few more concerning facts about what's happening with the Arctic's ice: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49483580 

Cue accusations of left-wing bias and trick photography?

[Devonian]

13 hours ago, Ed Stone said:

A few more concerning facts about what's happening with the Arctic's ice: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49483580 

Cue accusations of left-wing bias and trick photography?

 I would be surprised to see your evidence countered by different evidence - which leave what you suggest as the only kind of reply we seem to get to evidence.

[Geordiesnow]

Looks like sea ice extent will end up around 4th lowest I would say given the area numbers and the upcoming forecast, not painting the full picture of just how quick ice retreated in the Pacific regions this year and saved really from being closer to 2012 by very favourable conditions during the 2nd part of August. 

I think what this year has shown across the ESS is if you get a very warm couple of weeks, the pre conditioning will be so great that the ice will go very quickly like it did during July despite less phonominal weather conditions. The ice in the Beaufort is much more mobile now that persistent winds from the landmass will blow the ice away leaving a huge area of open water even in the 2nd half of May. The Beaufort gyre does help with this even more but even so, it's a sign of the changes in the basin. 

Volume numbers show we are only above 2012 which given extent is quite a bit higher is really telling I feel and the ice to the north of the Canadian Arpichello is much broken and mobile so whilst extent numbers may look similar to some years, the Arctic basin ice is definately changing. The question I would ask though, do we have enough time to melt all the ice to produce a BOE in each season? 

[Midlands Ice Age]

Meanwhile, as not reported in the Guardian and the BBC, but from a Crimean Maritime organisation...... 

 

https://maritimebulletin.net/2019/09/04/ship-with-climate-change-warriors-caught-in-ice-warriors-evacuated/?via=

 

 

(I never trust the Russians, but they are claiming this is South of Svalbard)

 

It seems as though one of the reasons to airlift the  warriors was the worry of Polar Bears in the neighbourhood.

The crew were rescued by a Swedish icebreaker, within 48 hours.  

 

Good news about the ice though!!

MIA

Edited September 9, 2019 by Midlands Ice Age

[ciel]

33 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Meanwhile, as not reported in the Guardian and the BBC, but from a Crimean Maritime organisation...... 

 

https://maritimebulletin.net/2019/09/04/ship-with-climate-change-warriors-caught-in-ice-warriors-evacuated/?via=

 

 

(I never trust the Russians, but they are claiming this is South of Svalbard)

 

It seems as though one of the reasons to airlift the  warriors was the worry of Polar Bears in the neighbourhood.

The crew were rescued by a Swedish icebreaker, within 48 hours.  

 

Good news about the ice though!!

MIA

The article you link to, together with the majority of its attached comments are nothing more than a denier's diatribe - but maybe you knew that, MIA.

[Paul]

11 minutes ago, ciel said:

The article you link to, together with the majority of its attached comments are nothing more than a denier's diatribe - but maybe you knew that, MIA.

Indeed, if you can call it an article. 

Another day, another instance of someone doing their best to find 'evidence' to support their personal theories, unfortunately. And I thought you were all about the science MIA, ho hum. 

[Midlands Ice Age]

8 minutes ago, ciel said:

The article you link to, together with the majority of its attached comments are nothing more than a denier's diatribe - but maybe you knew that, MIA.

?

Appears to be fact though...…..

I could have pointed out much more.....    like it is the 4th time in the last 5 years that climate scientists have had to be recued due to becoming ice bound.

Surely (if they looked at the correct ice maps)  they could have seen that there was still ice in the area. To go there with a small cruise ship was lunacy  (unless you believe in all the climate religion that there cannot be any ice this far south, at this time of year.) 

MIA

[Paul]

2 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

?

Appears to be fact though...…..

I could have pointed out much more.....    like it is the 4th time in the last 5 years that climate scientists have had to be recued due to becoming ice bound.

Surely (if they looked at the correct ice maps)  they could have seen that there was still ice in the area. To go there with a small cruise ship was lunacy  (unless you believe in all the climate religion that there cannot be any ice this far south, at this time of year.) 

MIA

Yep, keep digging...

[Midlands Ice Age]

1 minute ago, Paul said:

Indeed, if you can call it an article. 

Another day, another instance of someone doing their best to find 'evidence' to support their personal theories, unfortunately. And I thought you were all about the science MIA, ho hum. 

Paul..

Is this a theory of mine?

The whole point is that it has not been reported by any of the pro CC press.

Surely it proves that ice is further south than many here believe. Or is that 'evidence' that no one wants to hear?

I am totally interested in the science, but this forum needs someone to  balance the discussion..

MIA

[weirpig]

3 minutes ago, Paul said:

Yep, keep digging...

Maybe they should have done   wouldnt have got stuck then.   Actually when you think about  it  how stupid are they? going  there  in a non ice breaker boat  to highlight the lack of sea ice  then get stuck by said sea ice.  

[Paul]

10 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Paul..

Is this a theory of mine?

The whole point is that it has not been reported by any of the pro CC press.

Surely it proves that ice is further south than many here believe. Or is that 'evidence' that no one wants to hear?

I am totally interested in the science, but this forum needs someone to  balance the discussion..

MIA

You want to latch on to anything which proves climate change isn't as advanced as 99.99% of climate scientists agree it is. That is your pet theory. You're not providing balance, even if it was required, you're providing meaningless fud which adds nothing to the subject. 

If the article is true, it says nothing about climate change, the state of the ice or anything else. It simply says that some people got stuck in ice, perhaps through lack of navigation skills, lack of knowledge of the region or lack of preparation. It's hardly an indicator of far more widespread ice than expected/forecast/mapped or anything of the kind. Unless of course you're squinting really hard and trying to find any chink to jump onto and claim as a victory to back up a 'theory' which despite your frequent protestations is based on no evidence whatsoever. 

So, really it's not a shock that it's not been reported, as it's a non-story of interest only to those who, like yourself, are now clutching for whatever straws they can find to suit their agenda, sadly. 

[Midlands Ice Age]

7 minutes ago, Paul said:

You want to latch on to anything which proves climate change isn't as advanced as 99.99% of climate scientists agree it is. That is your pet theory. You're not providing balance, even if it was required, you're providing meaningless fud which adds nothing to the subject. 

If the article is true, it says nothing about climate change, the state of the ice or anything else. It simply says that some people got stuck in ice, perhaps through lack of navigation skills, lack of knowledge of the region or lack of preparation. It's hardly an indicator of far more widespread ice than expected/forecast/mapped or anything of the kind. Unless of course you're squinting really hard and trying to find any chink to jump onto and claim as a victory to back up a 'theory' which despite your frequent protestations is based on no evidence whatsoever. 

So, really it's not a shock that it's not been reported, as it's a non-story of interest only to those who, like yourself, are now clutching for whatever straws they can find, sadly. 

A bit more evidence for you that they ignored official ice maps.

This is todays DMI map   (5 days after they decided to sail through), used by the US Navy for their subs... 

https://maritimebulletin.net/2019/09/04/ship-with-climate-change-warriors-caught-in-ice-warriors-evacuated/?via=

 What on earth were they thinking of?

99.99%????? - Not so sure about that

MIA

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Midlands Ice Age

[Paul]

4 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

A bit more evidence for you that they ignored official ice maps.

This is todays DMI map   (5 days after they decided to sail through), used by the US Navy for their subs... 

https://maritimebulletin.net/2019/09/04/ship-with-climate-change-warriors-caught-in-ice-warriors-evacuated/?via=

 What on earth were they thinking of?

MIA

 

But what does that have to do with this thread? They navigated wrong, for whatever reason, got into trouble, etc etc etc. That has zero to do with the state of ice in the arctic - unless, like I say, you're desperately looking to prove a theory so short of actual scientific evidence, it requires you to latch on to every tenuous piece of supposed 'evidence' you can find on random blogs, youtube etc.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Paul

[Midlands Ice Age]

7 minutes ago, Paul said:

But what does that have to do with this thread? They navigated wrong, for whatever reason, got into trouble, etc etc etc. That has zero to do with the state of ice in the arctic - unless, like I say, you're desperately looking to prove a theory so short of actual evidence, it requires you to latch on to every tenuous piece of supposed evidence you can find. 

Paul....

Does it not mean that the ice is much further South this year?

According to DMI it has been at least 5 years since it was this far south  at this time of year.

Paul - To be fair,  and no matter how you try to 'paint' me   - you know I am not a Climate Change denier - I do however believe that Catastrophic AGW is  not going to happen.

Is anyone who does not believe in CAGW to be castigated?

 

MIA 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Midlands Ice Age

[sundog]

The ice near svalbard had done better this yr compared to recently I think. Maybe that's what caught them out. 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by sundog

[weirpig]

12 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

A bit more evidence for you that they ignored official ice maps.

This is todays DMI map   (5 days after they decided to sail through), used by the US Navy for their subs... 

https://maritimebulletin.net/2019/09/04/ship-with-climate-change-warriors-caught-in-ice-warriors-evacuated/?via=

 What on earth were they thinking of?

99.99%????? - Not so sure about that

MIA

 

Yes it is strange  why they wouldnt prepare better   slightly Ironic  that they went to see the damage climate change is doing   then needed to be rescued by 3 helicopters  which helps create climate change  funny world.   

[Paul]

23 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Paul....

Does it not mean that the ice is much further South this year?

According to DMI it has been at least 5 years since it was this far south  at this time of year.

Paul - To be fair,  and no matter how you try to 'paint' me   - you know I am not a Climate Change denier - I do however believe that Catastrophic AGW is  not going to happen.

Is anyone who does not believe in CAGW to be castigated?

 

MIA 

The article you linked means some people on a boat got stuck in ice. So it rather suggests they need to brush up on their navigation skills and preparation better, rather than anything else. 

If you want to talk about the ice in the Arctic, you're more than welcome - but coming up with ridiculous stories like the one you've linked above and then trying to twist that to suit your agenda is never going to fly. Talking about the ice itself, the differences between this and last year all require some actual fact based evidence - eg maps, satellite images etc etc. All of which are covered in here perfectly well, so if you want to discuss, why not start there rather than with a non-story about people getting stuck in a boat. 

If you're not a 'denier' you hide that fact very well, as it's a common theme to see these random blogs brought up to provide the 'evidence' to support theories which the science won't.  Adding catastrophic to the sentence is a neat way out though! You're not a climate change denier, but you do deny catastrophic climate change exists/is going to happen. If there is a line between the two, it seems like it's very fine and very hard to define. 

All of which is totally off topic in this thread of course, but if you want to talk about your theories, define the differences between catastrophic and non-catastrophic agw and provide some actual scientific evidence go with it, please do feel free to start a thread. As this one is about Arctic ice.

And as for castigating people - I don't think you have been. But ultimately if you wade into a debate armed with a one paragraph article talking about 'climate change warriors' getting stuck on a boat from a random blog, and decide to use that as some form of evidence about the state of the ice in the Arctic, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect robust responses questioning both the article and your motivation for using it.

[BornFromTheVoid]

Kinda surprising to me how often links and discussions appear on the worst climate denier blogs on the internet, and then appear on here only a few hours later from users that claim not to be climate change deniers
I'm sure this time, like many others, it's only a coincidence that the current article in questions was posted on WUWT 10 hours ago, right?

[Devonian]

2 hours ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

Kinda surprising to me how often links and discussions appear on the worst climate denier blogs on the internet, and then appear on here only a few hours later from users that claim not to be climate change deniers
I'm sure this time, like many others, it's only a coincidence that the current article in questions was posted on WUWT 10 hours ago, right?

Yup, pure coincidence.

[Derecho]

2 hours ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

Kinda surprising to me how often links and discussions appear on the worst climate denier blogs on the internet, and then appear on here only a few hours later from users that claim not to be climate change deniers
I'm sure this time, like many others, it's only a coincidence that the current article in questions was posted on WUWT 10 hours ago, right?

Indeed, it's a really poor article as they haven't even bothered looking at the sea ice extent. When looking at that it's not surprising ships in the area ran into trouble.

 

As Paul says, better navigation skills are perhaps needed and doesn't detract from the fact that arctic sea ice extent is yet again seeing a minimum that is much below average.