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this is disturbing

my daughter in law, a teacher and left winger (so wouldnt normally criticise the left wing education system) told us yesterday that "students arent being taught to be creative, its all about numeracy and literacy , subjects like music and drama are treats" .

without a 'creative' youth, theres no great new music, art, comedy, etc coming through to replace the older generation who were creative.

on the subject of comedy... again... this crimbo has been dire. the only new comedy that comes close to raising a smile was mrs browns boys, which is running out of steam.  i saw 2 'comedies' starring jimmy carr and david mitchell.... talk about drab. on '8 out of ten cats does countdown' (a feeble excuse to bring smut to a popular daytime tv show...oh how funny is that?...) a milennials idea of a 'joke' was suggesting noddy holder sang 'its chriiiiissssttmassss' on every track slade did, they edited it out until they found an appropriate song'... yes, that was a 'funny'...

david mitchell has the ability to make anything as dull as the current weather... unable to make a funny line funny.. 'upstart crow' should have been as good as blackadder... written by ben elton, starring many great actors from some good/great comedies. paula wilcox, 'big al' (from stella), a bloke from trollied (which is passable), amongst the minor stars, but not even veteran harry enfield, or mark heap (dr alan stathan from green wing) could lift this program to the 'watchable' level, let alone find it remotely funny. just what has happened to ben elton?... he used to be so incisive, witty , sharp, intelligent...

instead to get our laughs, we watched father ted yet again. it is really bad when to be amused we have to watch 20 year old repeats.

just where has our ability to laugh at ourselves gone too?.. where are the great british sitcoms ? steptoe? dads army? till death us do part?, it aint half hot mum? hi de hi? allo allo? are you being served? butterflies? only fools n horses? bread? young ones? blackadder? royle family? green wing? vicar of dibley? the good life (despite it being about reactionary stereotypes confirming the myth that everybody is a lovable middle class eccentric (lol see what i did there?) )? , one foot in the grave? great british comedies with great catchphrases that we still find amusing... ?... 'dont tell him pike'... 'i have a cunning plan'....'no no no no no ..yes '.... 'im free'.... 'drrrink!'.... 'my weeble' ...

plebs and trollied are watchable, but shunted outside of mainstream . but even those wont be remembered with the same affection, what are their catchphrases? do you know they even exist?

times are really bleak for great new music and comedy... the young simply arent engaging in it.  feel free to provide contrary evidence because id like a good laugh, to look foreward to a great comedy with excitement like we used to do.

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I thought trollied was rather beak, having worked in that industry for 22 odd years. I had a nose of it until they did the scene with the deli guy consuming something and then having to keep running to the loo. Stopped after that. No place in humour for that. However the difference is I just stopped watching it, I didn't write a 4 page letter in complaint. 

I would love to comment regarding schooling these days, but that would take us to 'the thread which must not be named'  

The only thing that makes me laugh on telly these days  is ' Have I got news for you' 

  

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22 hours ago, Dami said:

I thought trollied was rather beak, having worked in that industry for 22 odd years. I had a nose of it until they did the scene with the deli guy consuming something and then having to keep running to the loo. Stopped after that. No place in humour for that. However the difference is I just stopped watching it, I didn't write a 4 page letter in complaint. 

I would love to comment regarding schooling these days, but that would take us to 'the thread which must not be named'  

The only thing that makes me laugh on telly these days  is ' Have I got news for you' 

  

stopped watching hignfy ten years ago. after watching it from when it first aired, and loving it, it became very repetitive. maybe im missing out? i dunno.. but its a panel game show hosted by boomers or gen x'ers.

interestingly there was a 'greatest ever british sitcoms' countdown (a repeat i think?) aired on more 4 last night. a lot of the points i made above were confirmed. what it did do however is highlight just how many there have been, covering every aspect of british life.

tbh, i reckon the environment is right for a very funny new one.... the subject?... why snowflakes of course! 😂

mind you, that has already been hinted at 20 plus years ago in 'ab fab' ... saffy was a snowflake! daughter of a totally irresponsible boomer parent. maybe snowflakes form of rebellion is to rail against their 'rock n roll' parents.. by conforming. lol. which kind of bring the thread back around to the original point, snowflakes exist due to the way they were brought up by boomers and gen x parents.

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On 24/12/2018 at 09:54, mushymanrob said:

 lol, jeez man, we are the same age, you have wintessed the same things i have! i can only conclude that pop music wasnt a big thing in your life, which is fair enough. when we were 20 there was punk, new wave, disco, pop, rock, rockabilly, beginings of synth, ballads, reggae, funk, even folk in the charts.... are you seriously suggesting we have that variety or original music charting now? 😂

m8..... when it comes to weather im strictly division 4, when it come to pop culture im mid table division 1. its something ive been into for many years. my views expressed here are shared by others who have the same understanding of youth culture. dont believe me? just go onto 'on demand', seek out the 'britannia' series on bbc, punk britannia, synth britannia, look up the history of dance music, look for 'the filth and the fury', watch rock docs that cover specific periods , see the drive and inspiration that created these movements ..... then come back and instead of throwing lazy insults at me, actually show me the EVIDENCE that the music scene is as vibrant as it was then, that actually proves my views are nonsense...

you cant....

the nearest 'thing' currently is grime, which has taken off to a degree after 20 years of being in the doldrums, a niche style. before that there was a bit of dubstep a few years ago, that too was a ressurection of a style created in the late 90's.

there IS some good pop around today, but these tracks are pretty rare and arent part of a 'movement'.

further to this point..

chart music

yep, i know a lot of music fans dont take/didnt take any notice of chart music.

but..... chart music is the only statistic , resource, as to what was happening in the music scene at any given time. all the great musical movements we have enjoyed is represented in the charts of the day. we can see the development of styles, and fix them to a specific date. so whilst most chart music was pretty naff, it did record the changes and evolution in musical styles and associated fashion.

in that way, the charts are a pretty valuable resource, and will be of great historical interest in the future for those documenting the golden ages of youth culture.

of course, it means that all the 'great music thats not in the charts' , will remain obscure, hidden, unobservable.

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Its not really shock that older generations think today's music is naff. I'm sure their parents thought the same and I know I think the same of what's in the charts now.

It's called getting older and thinking things were better in your day with rose tinted glasses.

The mistake we make is thinking that because we THINK something is the case it doesn't mean it IS.

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15 minutes ago, Lauren said:

Its not really shock that older generations think today's music is naff. I'm sure their parents thought the same and I know I think the same of what's in the charts now.

It's called getting older and thinking things were better in your day with rose tinted glasses.

The mistake we make is thinking that because we THINK something is the case it doesn't mean it IS.

Indeed, Lauren...Some things just never change!

FWIW, as I've grown older, I find myself delving ever further back, in search of good music.😎

Edited by Ed Stone

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Trouble is with Music  these days its nothing different.  Most decades  and generations are dominated by a different music genre   today its all much of a muchness.  We had the birth of Rock/roll in the 50s  The swinging 60s  with the rise of British bands.  The 70s were Disco and Glam rock. The 80s were the new romantic period    the 90s  were the height of the rave scene  and Brit pop.  Then into the 2000s it just died  nothing   just variations of the theme that had gone before it.  

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I don't think age or rose-tinted specs have much to do with different generational music preferences. It's more to do with what is familiar, relevant and has emotional appeal to any particular age group at any given time. Younger people, I suspect, listen more often and repetitively to pop music than do older persons.

In fact, viewing things through rose-coloured glasses is not a function of age, as the notion can be applied to any age group on any particular topic.

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5 hours ago, Lauren said:

Its not really shock that older generations think today's music is naff. I'm sure their parents thought the same and I know I think the same of what's in the charts now.

It's called getting older and thinking things were better in your day with rose tinted glasses.

The mistake we make is thinking that because we THINK something is the case it doesn't mean it IS.


sorry thats nonsense... ive already explained this point...  its got nothing to do with what i THINK, but what can be demonstrated to be true.

there are some good pop songs about today, but theres no one around, no artist, icon, group, creating new styles, new fashions.. just look at the way each generation had our own new style of music and associated fashion. the variety of original styles simply cannot be found in the only place pop music has been recorded for years...the charts, as explained above.

the illusion that todays music scene is as original, vibrant, interesting, as it was from the 50's until the early 00's is just that...an illusion...  nothing to do with age because i disliked many of the styles from 'my' era, but ive a life long regard for pop music, including the odd track today, but its the great original , generation defining styles i lament the passing of.

5 hours ago, weirpig said:

Trouble is with Music  these days its nothing different.  Most decades  and generations are dominated by a different music genre   today its all much of a muchness.  We had the birth of Rock/roll in the 50s  The swinging 60s  with the rise of British bands.  The 70s were Disco and Glam rock. The 80s were the new romantic period    the 90s  were the height of the rave scene  and Brit pop.  Then into the 2000s it just died  nothing   just variations of the theme that had gone before it.  

exactly, im glad someone 'gets' it...

Edited by mushymanrob
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6 hours ago, Lauren said:

Its not really shock that older generations think today's music is naff. I'm sure their parents thought the same and I know I think the same of what's in the charts now.

It's called getting older and thinking things were better in your day with rose tinted glasses.

The mistake we make is thinking that because we THINK something is the case it doesn't mean it IS.

To be fair a lot of the younger generation think that too.It's hard to compare different eras but personally i think a lot of the older stuff is better than what's came out in the last 10 yrs or so and i'm only 28.

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11 minutes ago, Ross90 said:

To be fair a lot of the younger generation think that too.It's hard to compare different eras but personally i think a lot of the older stuff is better than what's came out in the last 10 yrs or so and i'm only 28.

indeed, a lot of younger people who want decent music raid 'our' archives, because, as one of my 20 something sons said - its better then todays.

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this is worth a watch...it supports my point, although pjw himself isnt the most likable commontator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP0wuwJBdMI

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On ‎27‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 09:57, mushymanrob said:

this is disturbing

my daughter in law, a teacher and left winger (so wouldnt normally criticise the left wing education system) told us yesterday that "students arent being taught to be creative, its all about numeracy and literacy , subjects like music and drama are treats" .

without a 'creative' youth, theres no great new music, art, comedy, etc coming through to replace the older generation who were creative.

on the subject of comedy... again... this crimbo has been dire. the only new comedy that comes close to raising a smile was mrs browns boys, which is running out of steam.  i saw 2 'comedies' starring jimmy carr and david mitchell.... talk about drab. on '8 out of ten cats does countdown' (a feeble excuse to bring smut to a popular daytime tv show...oh how funny is that?...) a milennials idea of a 'joke' was suggesting noddy holder sang 'its chriiiiissssttmassss' on every track slade did, they edited it out until they found an appropriate song'... yes, that was a 'funny'...

david mitchell has the ability to make anything as dull as the current weather... unable to make a funny line funny.. 'upstart crow' should have been as good as blackadder... written by ben elton, starring many great actors from some good/great comedies. paula wilcox, 'big al' (from stella), a bloke from trollied (which is passable), amongst the minor stars, but not even veteran harry enfield, or mark heap (dr alan stathan from green wing) could lift this program to the 'watchable' level, let alone find it remotely funny. just what has happened to ben elton?... he used to be so incisive, witty , sharp, intelligent...

instead to get our laughs, we watched father ted yet again. it is really bad when to be amused we have to watch 20 year old repeats.

just where has our ability to laugh at ourselves gone too?.. where are the great british sitcoms ? steptoe? dads army? till death us do part?, it aint half hot mum? hi de hi? allo allo? are you being served? butterflies? only fools n horses? bread? young ones? blackadder? royle family? green wing? vicar of dibley? the good life (despite it being about reactionary stereotypes confirming the myth that everybody is a lovable middle class eccentric (lol see what i did there?) )? , one foot in the grave? great british comedies with great catchphrases that we still find amusing... ?... 'dont tell him pike'... 'i have a cunning plan'....'no no no no no ..yes '.... 'im free'.... 'drrrink!'.... 'my weeble' ...

plebs and trollied are watchable, but shunted outside of mainstream . but even those wont be remembered with the same affection, what are their catchphrases? do you know they even exist?

times are really bleak for great new music and comedy... the young simply arent engaging in it.  feel free to provide contrary evidence because id like a good laugh, to look foreward to a great comedy with excitement like we used to do.

Good post.

Left brained thinking taking over way too much these days turning into the robotics...right brain is the creative dream mind....the 2 need to be combined

Grimes exposing the transhumanism agenda in their video.

Good tune.

 

Edited by Snowyowl9
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29 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:

indeed, a lot of younger people who want decent music raid 'our' archives, because, as one of my 20 something sons said - its better then todays.

Your not sure how many son's you got 😲

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14 hours ago, Mokidugway said:

Your not sure how many son's you got 😲

2...... ones into motown and metal (old material mainly) the others a dj having worked on the white isle playing (old) trance...

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Heres a belting song that would song great on the radio.

 

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I don't know what makes one a 'snowflake', in musical terms, but I like the stuff I grew up with!

PS: Sorry about the Suzi tribute...Trump Finger!

Edited by Ed Stone
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3 hours ago, Ed Stone said:

I don't know what makes one a 'snowflake', in musical terms, but I like the stuff I grew up with!

PS: Sorry about the Suzi tribute...Trump Finger!

fun fact Suzi used to live in Chelmsford..and had a hand in designing the Audi rally cars that later went on to carry her Name

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12 hours ago, Ed Stone said:

I don't know what makes one a 'snowflake', in musical terms, but I like the stuff I grew up with!

PS: Sorry about the Suzi tribute...Trump Finger!

you highlight my point thanks...

original songs in the charts, by competent musicians/singers with their own individual style . the problem has been (as highlighted in that vid i posted but dare say no one bothered to watch) , is that businessmen used to back a group or act, they would take a punt on a new artist to see if they made any money. this gave artists artistic licence to be creative, to create a new style, new sounds. that is why in the past there was so much variety in the charts, thats how new styles evolved. over the last 30 years that has gradually changed
in the late 80's stock aitken and waterman created their hit factory, and boasted openly about 'making a star out of anyone'.... kylie couldnt sing live for peanuts! they unashamedly made manufactured music acceptable, and what they did was reverse what had gone before. to them it was all about the money. so they created artificially 'songs' for anyone, and all their 'stars' brought to the product was their name.

over the last 30 years, thats the way pop music has gone... manufactured acts... created by businessmen to make money, THATS why theres no originality or variety in the charts. generation snowflake has grown up with manufactured pop music being the norm.

so instead of businessmen backing original artists, giving a new generation an oppetunity to express themselves, they created the artists themselves in order to make money.  pop music today is unoriginal, generic, stagnant, and that can be seen in by comparing the variety and subject matter we had in the past.
just look at kate bush for eg.... totally unique
first song - whimsical original take on a emily bronte classic novel. .... second song.. about being a failed gay actor .... third song... infidelity in marriage... followed by songs tackling the subjects of nuclear war, or the futility of war..  an artist given the opportunity to express herself - did. can anyone seriously suggest that there are artists of that calibre around today in the charts?.. nah... and as ive previously pointed out, the charts, love them or hate them, are the 'go too' resource to see what was happening in the music scene at any one period in time.

btw...yu didnt 'grow up' with 'move it', it was around the year we were born! 😛

Edited by mushymanrob

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2 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:


btw...yu didnt 'grow up' with 'move it', it was around the year we were born! 😛

Only if it was released on or before 11/01/57?:yahoo:...Anywho, I did have uncles and aunts who regularly exposed me to that kind of stuff.

But, I do agree 100%, about manufactured garbage!:drinks:

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On 07/02/2019 at 12:31, Lauren said:

Its not really shock that older generations think today's music is naff. I'm sure their parents thought the same and I know I think the same of what's in the charts now.

It's called getting older and thinking things were better in your day with rose tinted glasses.

The mistake we make is thinking that because we THINK something is the case it doesn't mean it IS.

further to my previous reply.... it is true that successive generations dislike modern music. of course it is. i didnt mean that bit was 'rubbish'...

but as a life long fan of pop music and british youth culture, the pop music scene today is stagnant, banal, unoriginal. its not a case of me 'not liking it therefore its rubbish'... i hated disco, prog rock, glam rock, philly, and many other styles, but i recognise them as strong, original, popular, styles.

if you or anyone thinks todays pop music scene has the variety of original songs/styles then please provide the actual evidence :) because tbh, its very lazy to say 'youre just getting old'.. that really isnt an argument.

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Just now, Ed Stone said:

Only if it was released on or before 11/01/57?:yahoo:...Anywho, I did have uncles and aunts who regularly exposed me to that kind of stuff.

But, I do agree 100%, about manufactured garbage!:drinks:

... but ed..... what you and others have argued against me is that very point! todays music is generic, manufactured, insipid, lol. it really is not as good, and that can be demonstrated to be true. and ive done just that. lol..

you are 3 days older. :P

my mam listened to pop music all day, the radio was on, thats where my interest came from since before i was at school..

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5 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:

... but ed..... what you and others have argued against me is that very point! todays music is generic, manufactured, insipid, lol. it really is not as good, and that can be demonstrated to be true. and ive done just that. lol..

you are 3 days older. 😛

my mam listened to pop music all day, the radio was on, thats where my interest came from since before i was at school..

I think I might have had the 'wrong end of the stick', mushy...But as soon you mentioned Stock, Aitken and Waterperson,😱 I cottoned-on...

There must a mathematical limit on how many variations, on a three-chord pattern, can be made; and, with each 'new' style, scope for further variation gets less and less...?

I think that pop music might be the victim of its own success; it's losing out to the Law of Diminishing Returns?

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23 hours ago, Ed Stone said:

I think I might have had the 'wrong end of the stick', mushy...But as soon you mentioned Stock, Aitken and Waterperson,😱 I cottoned-on...

There must a mathematical limit on how many variations, on a three-chord pattern, can be made; and, with each 'new' style, scope for further variation gets less and less...?

I think that pop music might be the victim of its own success; it's losing out to the Law of Diminishing Returns?

that is a sound argument.... and one i and other pop music fans have discussed. maybe 'we' have discovered all the various patterns that a basic guitar based pop/rock combo can create.

maybe theres a case for suggesting todays youth can access these older styles easily so dont need to create their own. i do know young people who like punk (our punk from 76/7/8) although how they can put it into context and apply it to todays environment remains to be understood.

so they may not be able to discover a new style, thats possible, but why oh why can they not create a good original song celebrating/protesting about todays life?

i think theres a case to be made for suggesting pop music is modern folk music.... lol.. after all, theres an element amoungst british based guitar bands to document british life in pop. in the 60's the obvious choice is 'penny lane', but the kinks were quintessentially a british group singing songs about british life at the time. dead end street, sunny afternoon.... the animals expressed the dispare that post war life was like in the northeast - we gotta get out of this place.. "in this dirty old part of the city, where the sun refuse to shine" ..... in the 70's groups like the jam carried this on, and into the 80's madness often used life as a topic - baggy trousers, our house... then into the 90's there was britpop with blur and oasis again using real life as topics. each time this britpop theme arose groups may have been unoriginal in the styles - oasis was heavily criticised for ripping off the beatles - but did create some great pop songs that heavily referenced everyday life.

so why arent there guitar based groups today creating their own music using the many hot political topics?... see, i dont think unoriginality is bad, IF the product is sincere and indeed my favoured era after the mid 60's for guitar based pop/rock was the early 00's ! groups like the rasmus, queens of the stoneage, white stripes, razorlight, hard fi , and many more could hardly be regarded as totally original in the styles of music they created... but what they created was damn good!

now, as far as 'snowflakes' go... maybe their education has something to do with their lack of willingness to create 'bripop mk 4' . it appears to me that anything promoting britishness, all our positive achievements, are overlooked in favour of highlighting the negatives.. in a bid to be 'inclusive' and not promote anything that could be seen as offensive to immigrants. has political correctness killed pop music?...

pleased you 'cottoned on' :)  the views on pop music ive expressed here are shared by other pop music experts, so whilst some of you might think im talking crap... the people who matter dont! 😛 😀 after all, this is a weather forum, i wouldnt go to a pop music forum to find out about the weather, and on the weather im strictly division 4.

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