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mushymanrob

snowflakes

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27 minutes ago, Paul said:

Oh yes, those pesky students daring to make a stand against something by replacing a poem, what a terrible world we live in...

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/jul/19/manchester-university-students-paint-over-rudyard-kipling-mural

 

You can't replace history lol. Pretty shocking in my opinion. Mindless vandalism is ok as long as it's done by students in the name of a "cause"! 

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The point being is that students have protested about all kinds of things through the ages, sometimes in ways others may not agree with. This example is nothing more than that from what i can see, so why use it as another way of labelling that particular generation as 'snowflakes'?

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4 minutes ago, Rambo said:

You can't replace history lol. 

Funny, eh?

No, you can't 'replace' history...but you can ensure that it's accurate: http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zw8dq6f

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1 minute ago, Ed Stone said:

Funny, eh?

No, you can't 'replace' history...but you can ensure that it's accurate: http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zw8dq6f

Eh   whats that got to do with anything Pete?.  

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38 minutes ago, weirpig said:

Eh   whats that got to do with anything Pete?.  

As in 'don't let the facts get in the way of a good Just So story'?

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2 hours ago, Paul said:

Oh yes, those pesky students daring to make a stand against something by replacing a poem, what a terrible world we live in...

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/jul/19/manchester-university-students-paint-over-rudyard-kipling-mural

 

disgraceful.... criminal damage. hope they were dealt with in the same way tommy robinson would be if he desecrated a muslim text.

the whole "that bit of history was wrong by our standards now so we have a right to protest against it" is ridiculous.

i get the impression that only the negative side of 'empire' has been highlighted..... but tell me this.... if 'empire' was sooooo baaadddd, why did these poor oppressed countries elect freely to remain tied to britain via becoming members of the commonwealth?.... i feel the answer lies within a famous monty python sketch, only substituting 'romans' for 'british'.

and of course, membership of the commonwealth entitled peoples to own a british passport, which directly lead to the multicultural society we live in now. yet we brits are supposed to be racist?.... thats clearly not true as a whole as it was the ordinary brits who saw the injustice of slavery and forced it to be banned, abolished, stopped, ceased to be, but of course thats not highlighted as a positive achievement for good old britannia  - stoping a trade that had gone on for centuaries, being the first nation on earth to ever achieve that... no.... apparently 'we' are all guilty for the relatively few years some of our industrialists took part in it. thats like saying all football fans are mindless idiots because of the actions of a few yobs.

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1 hour ago, Ed Stone said:

As in 'don't let the facts get in the way of a good Just So story'?

What facts? Did the students not paint over it after all then? I don't understand your point? 

A poem by a well known author was defaced by a bunch of students, how is that not factual? 

Seriously can't believe this discussion has gotten to this point now lol, where some are defending these actions, simply because the students are making a "point". I rather think old matey boy in New Zealand popped into a mosque to make his point, but no one would or should defend that. Obviously its not comparable in scale, but how far will things go before suddenly criminal damage to make a point is acceptable? Then what? Do these types of people then have to go "bigger" to get their point across? 

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Sometimes, received wisdom turns out to be either distorted or just plain wrong...But, just why so many people, especially those of a racist/xenophobic/chauvinistic persuasion, prefer to inhabit a shady world of self-delusion and willful ignorance is, quite frankly, beyond me...I accept that denialism comes in all sorts of guises...but, can ignorance be really that blissful?  For those among us who fear we are becoming a 'mongrel race' I guess it's essential?

How bloody sad that is!:oldrolleyes:

Edited by Ed Stone
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25 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:

disgraceful.... criminal damage. hope they were dealt with in the same way tommy robinson would be if he desecrated a muslim text.

the whole "that bit of history was wrong by our standards now so we have a right to protest against it" is ridiculous.

i get the impression that only the negative side of 'empire' has been highlighted..... but tell me this.... if 'empire' was sooooo baaadddd, why did these poor oppressed countries elect freely to remain tied to britain via becoming members of the commonwealth?.... i feel the answer lies within a famous monty python sketch, only substituting 'romans' for 'british'.

and of course, membership of the commonwealth entitled peoples to own a british passport, which directly lead to the multicultural society we live in now. yet we brits are supposed to be racist?.... thats clearly not true as a whole as it was the ordinary brits who saw the injustice of slavery and forced it to be banned, abolished, stopped, ceased to be, but of course thats not highlighted as a positive achievement for good old britannia  - stoping a trade that had gone on for centuaries, being the first nation on earth to ever achieve that... no.... apparently 'we' are all guilty for the relatively few years some of our industrialists took part in it. thats like saying all football fans are mindless idiots because of the actions of a few yobs.

My wife works at a hospital with a couple of Indian lads, they both reckon that the British were the best thing that ever happened to India not least for the infrastructure that we provided.  Not saying that we did'nt  milk it for our own ends, but a lot of positives came out of it as well. The French  had the second largest empire , followed by the Belgians , and Germans,  all have skeletons in their own particular cupboards that they prefer to keep hidden out of the way.

We seem to have this habit of judging the events of yesterday by the standards of today.

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5 minutes ago, Ed Stone said:

Sometimes, received wisdom turns out to be either distorted or just plain wrong...But, just why so many people, especially those of a racist/xenophobic/chauvinistic persuasion, prefer to inhabit a shady world of self-delusion and willful ignorance is, quite frankly, beyond me...I accept that denialism comes in all sorts of guises...but, can ignorance be really that blissful?  For those among us who fear we are becoming a 'mongrel race' I guess it's essential?

How bloody sad that is!:oldrolleyes:

what is 'wrong' about my post above?...  NOTHING.

the only ones who are deluded are those that are downplaying the reality of our past. but thats the lefty trend nowdays isnt it. ignore the reality to promote the negative aspects to give a distorted view.

you tell me..... why did the countries we colonised decide to remain tied to us if 'we' were so bad?.. could it be the infrastructure we built? the health? trade? education? wealth? .... take the punjab... british created miles of canals to bring land into food production so the locals didnt starve..

you show me any country in the world that wasnt established by invastion of territories, subjugation , oppression, death and slavery and ill show you a land full of unicorns, fairies, and giants.



 

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8 minutes ago, 78/79 said:

My wife works at a hospital with a couple of Indian lads, they both reckon that the British were the best thing that ever happened to India not least for the infrastructure that we provided.  Not saying that we did'nt  milk it for our own ends, but a lot of positives came out of it as well. The French  had the second largest empire , followed by the Belgians , and Germans,  all have skeletons in their own particular cupboards that they prefer to keep hidden out of the way.

We seem to have this habit of judging the events of yesterday by the standards of today.

spot on!

i was in dubai last year, met loads of indians, from taxi drivers to businessmen, they really do like us! their dream is to come here, one wanted to watch man u play at old trafford.

theres a reason latin america speaks spanish and portuguese, why canada and a lot of africa speaks french...



 

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57 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

Are those removing confederate statues in the US also snowflakes?

i guess thats antifa...... so yes.

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43 minutes ago, Rambo said:

What facts? Did the students not paint over it after all then? I don't understand your point? 

A poem by a well known author was defaced by a bunch of students, how is that not factual? 

Seriously can't believe this discussion has gotten to this point now lol, where some are defending these actions, simply because the students are making a "point". I rather think old matey boy in New Zealand popped into a mosque to make his point, but no one would or should defend that. Obviously its not comparable in scale, but how far will things go before suddenly criminal damage to make a point is acceptable? Then what? Do these types of people then have to go "bigger" to get their point across? 

It takes an extraordinarily gormless kind of idiot to equate defacing a worthless plaque with murdering 50 innocent people lol!

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20 minutes ago, mushymanrob said:

i guess thats antifa...... so yes.

Or, you know, anyone who thing it's appalling to commemorate slavery advocates.

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17 minutes ago, Yarmy said:

Or, you know, anyone who thing it's appalling to commemorate slavery advocates.

Come and live in Bristol and join the anti-Edward Colston brigade. You could help them dismantle any reference to him, buildings in his name and change some of Bristol's street names. Let's delete part of Britain's history. Burn some books as well on tbe subject of slavery. Where will it end?  Like it or not, it is there and wont go away.

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1 minute ago, Bristle boy said:

Come and live in Bristol and join the anti-Edward Colston brigade. You could help them dismantle any reference to him, buildings in his name and change some of Bristol's street names. Let's delete part of Britain's history. Burn some books as well on tbe subject of slavery. Where will it end?  Like it or not, it is there and wont go away.

It's not erasing history. There's a difference between remembering historical figures and *celebrating* them. Many of those confederate statues being removed were put up within the past 30 years. It's disgusting to anyone who isn't a demented racist longing for the days of segregation.

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1 hour ago, 78/79 said:

My wife works at a hospital with a couple of Indian lads, they both reckon that the British were the best thing that ever happened to India not least for the infrastructure that we provided.  Not saying that we did'nt  milk it for our own ends, but a lot of positives came out of it as well. The French  had the second largest empire , followed by the Belgians , and Germans,  all have skeletons in their own particular cupboards that they prefer to keep hidden out of the way.

We seem to have this habit of judging the events of yesterday by the standards of today.

The Turks had the one of the biggest and longest lasting empires in History..the ottoman empire..they had a huge slave trade network and took millions of slaves from Europe and Africa and committed genocide on a far greater scale than the British etc..but don't seem them being judged in the same way as western colonialists 

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43 minutes ago, Yarmy said:

Or, you know, anyone who thing it's appalling to commemorate slavery advocates.

 

17 minutes ago, Yarmy said:

It's not erasing history. There's a difference between remembering historical figures and *celebrating* them. Many of those confederate statues being removed were put up within the past 30 years. It's disgusting to anyone who isn't a demented racist longing for the days of segregation.

to be fair, i dont know which statues are being removed, there are a lot of unsavoury characters in americas past.... like john chivington who lead the massacre of native americans at sand creek. it would be wrong to erect a statue to him and if there is one then removing it would seem justified.
if the statues being removed are of people who have committed similar crimes then fair enough.

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3 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

The Turks had the one of the biggest and longest lasting empires in History..the ottoman empire..they had a huge slave trade network and took millions of slaves from Europe and Africa and committed genocide on a far greater scale than the British etc..but don't seem them being judged in the same way as western colonialists 

oh come on now..... we cant let truth get in the way of a good brit bashing exercise can we!
maybe because the ottomans were muslim... and operated the african slave trade for around a thousand years, trying to turn many into eunochs (where as many as 80% died from blood loss) but muslims attrocities and their far greater involvement in the african slave trade are beyond criticism.

another overlooked fact that the 'blame the whiteman' brigade overlook, .... it was their own people, black africans who provided slaves for the rest of the world. we hear a lot about 'white guilt' but nothing about the black africans selling their own countrymen into slavery.

yet somehow its us british, the late comers to the table and the ones who abolished slavery, that get the criticism.

well i for one am proud of our fellow countrymen, the ones who campaigned and forced the hand of parliament, overthrowing businessmen who were running 'our' slave trade, that was some feat ... the ordinary people beating the establishment , and all for people they didnt even know. the way that  the british abolshed slavery should be celebrated, its something to be proud of.

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14 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

The Turks had the one of the biggest and longest lasting empires in History..the ottoman empire..they had a huge slave trade network and took millions of slaves from Europe and Africa and committed genocide on a far greater scale than the British etc..but don't seem them being judged in the same way as western colonialists 

What's The Ottoman Empire got to do with anything...it's been gone for 97 years! 

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As it's a Friday afternoon I'm going to look on the bright side and have decided that some of the posts in here must be for parody rather than being serious. 

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5 minutes ago, Paul said:

As it's a Friday afternoon I'm going to look on the bright side and have decided that some of the posts in here must be for parody rather than being serious. 

I was about to make a post about current issues concerning the historical impact of Turkish occupation in the Balkans, but decided against. :oldmellow:

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