The onset of the severe wintry spell of Jan.1987

[johnholmes]

On 22/12/2018 at 00:43, Roger J Smith said:

What were the forecasts? (I wasn't living in England at the time, don't have any idea). With today's model performance being what it is, a fairly decent forecast of this would likely have been available around the 7th to 9th time frame. 

t that time the 'medium range forecast' as it was called showed, internally in the Met Office, charts out to T+96, I don't think it went to T+120 at that time.

The senior man at Bracknell would sometimes make reference to this output and it was discussed in the 2x daily discussions between Bracknell and the main Weather Centres. This included the duty TV weather person on the BBC.

[johnholmes]

Just spotted this, I was at RAF Valley at the time so very cold but not much snow

I have the daily data for RAF Finningley (Doncaster) for the dates Roger talks of

It was quite sunny but very cold for the month as a whole

The real cold started at Finningley on 9 th and last out to 19th

These are the max values

9=0.9

10=0.1

11=-4.0

12=-5.7 with 10.3 hours sunshine but 5.7 mm 'rainfall' no idea what snow depth

13=-3.8 with 7.6 mm 'rain' and obly 1.3 hours sunshine

14=-0.4

15=1.6

16=1.3

17=-0.6

18=-1.0

19=-1.1

The monthly mean=1.2

Avge Max=3.3

Avge Min=-0.9

There were 9 days with snow and 12 with it lying covering more than half the ground at 0900 cklock time

Hope that is of interest

John

Edited January 1, 2019 by johnholmes
spelling

[Tom Quintavalle]

1 hour ago, johnholmes said:

Just spotted this, I was at RAF Valley at the time so very cold but not much snow

I have the daily data for RAF Finningley (Doncaster) for the dates Roger talks of

It was quite sunny but very cold for the month as a whole

The real cold started at Finningley on 9 th and last out to 19th

These are the max values

9=0.9

10=0.1

11=-4.0

12=-5.7 with 10.3 hours sunshine but 5.7 mm 'rainfall' no idea what snow depth

13=-3.8 with 7.6 mm 'rain' and obly 1.3 hours sunshine

14=-0.4

15=1.6

16=1.3

17=-0.6

18=-1.0

19=-1.1

The monthly mean=1.2

Avge Max=3.3

Avge Min=-0.9

There were 9 days with snow and 12 with it lying covering more than half the ground at 0900 cklock time

Hope that is of interest

John

Hi John,

Thanks very much for your input. I know it's a "big ask" but can you remember how the Meto struggled with their forecast outlook, at this time? As has been suggested at times, on the Model thread, Forecast Models seem to struggle when an "Arctic High", makes an appearance on the Synoptic charts.

Regards,

Tom. 

 

[johnholmes]

8 minutes ago, TomSE12 said:

Hi John,

Thanks very much for your input. I know it's a "big ask" but can you remember how the Meto struggled with their forecast outlook, at this time? As has been suggested at times, on the Model thread, Forecast Models seem to struggle when an "Arctic High", makes an appearance on the Synoptic charts.

Regards,

Tom. 

 

hi Tom

In 1987, I was working on the Defence side of the Met Office. So no direct link to the Weather Centre side of things. But with regular meetings/discussions between forecasters from all sides and seniority one did get some idea of how the 'other side' were doing so to speak.

Forecast charts, somewhat like the Fax charts we have access to today were broadcast to all Met Offices out to T+96 each day. But I do not recall anything beyond that. The duty forecaster with the BBC would be part of 2x daily discussions with the senior man at Bracknell as to what he felt was a measured view for 24-48 hours with a brief outlook to 96 and possibly 120 hours. Beyond that sorry I can't help. We still have Michael Fish doing video forecasts for Net Weather. I am not sure if he might be able or willing to help? Perhaps a word with Paul to see if he feels Michael might respond if you really want more details?

 

[Kirkcaldy Weather]

LOW DAYTIME TEMPERATURES OVER ENGLAND AND WALES ON 12 JANUARY 1987

https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/j.1477-8696.1987.tb06953.x

A LOOK BACK AT THE CRUELLY COLD WINTER OF 1987 IN BUDAPEST

https://welovebudapest.com/en/2017/01/16/a-look-back-at-the-cruelly-cold-winter-of-1987-in-budapest/

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/news/amp/remembering-the-1987-whiteout-118663/

http://www.rainham-history.co.uk/rainham-photos/10-rainham-kent-snow-photos-from-1987winter-198788-snow-in-kent

 

[fujita5]

I remember my dad taking me out in the car after the roads between Clacton and Frinton/Walton had been ploughed.  The snow was 10ft deep either side of the road, quite amazing!

[Thundery wintry showers]

On 18/12/2018 at 13:32, Norrance said:

Though many think that Jan 1987 was a South East event it also impacted all the way up the East coast. We had a foot of level snow here in Dundee with drifting even in town. Kinross just to our SW had over 45cms level. Not much however got past high ground so the West Highlands were dry but cold but the snow however did make it through the Central belt as far as Glasgow. Started on the Saturday with the peak here from Sunday to Tuesday. It was however really one glorious week in what was otherwise a pretty innocuous Winter.

At one time (back in the early 2000s) I was one of those who dismissed January 1987 as chiefly a south-east event, mainly because I had access to weather stats for Lancaster and they just had a centimetre from it, and because the archive charts show very high pressure across the north. 

But my present-day impression is that most areas had a fair amount of snow, with sheltered western areas tending to be the exception, as the air mass was so cold that it was able to generate plenty of North Sea convection all the way up to eastern Scotland despite the very high pressure.  Another area that was heavily hit was, unusually, southern Cornwall, with massive falls in places like Penzance, as the air mass was so cold that even the far south-west peninsula was cold enough for snow, and it presumably got hit by snow streamers running along the English Channel.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Thundery wintry showers

[feb1991blizzard]

9 minutes ago, Thundery wintry showers said:

At one time (back in the early 2000s) I was one of those who dismissed January 1987 as chiefly a south-east event, mainly because I had access to weather stats for Lancaster and they just had a centimetre from it, and because the archive charts show very high pressure across the north. 

But my present-day impression is that most areas had a fair amount of snow, with sheltered western areas tending to be the exception, as the air mass was so cold that it was able to generate plenty of North Sea convection all the way up to eastern Scotland despite the very high pressure.  Another area that was heavily hit was, unusually, southern Cornwall, with massive falls in places like Penzance, as the air mass was so cold that even the far south-west peninsula was cold enough for snow, and it presumably got hit by snow streamers running along the English Channel.

Put it this way i saw some huge dumpings in the 80s in Birmingham, guaranteed days off school almost every year, but this was definitely the biggest, it was up to my chest with the drifts, hard to measure but definitely over 1ft of level snow, perhaps 15 inches, admittedly though i did live in one of the most prone spots at around 100ft higher even than i do now in the pennines.

[feb1991blizzard]

It was the only time i have ever seen a national TV programme interrupted by a local news bulletin for a 'Snow Update' by Central News on ITV.

[I remember Atlantic 252]

4 minutes ago, feb1991blizzard said:

It was the only time i have ever seen a national TV programme interrupted by a local news bulletin for a 'Snow Update' by Central News on ITV.

tha days! miss them! used to look forward to 6;30pm bbc weather on the telly to see all the snow on the way! childhood winters ruled

[feb1991blizzard]

1 minute ago, I remember Atlantic 252 said:

tha days! miss them! used to look forward to 6;30pm bbc weather on the telly to see all the snow on the way! childhood winters ruled

Yes, Countryfile was my go to thing and then there was always the mideweek one which went as far as Sunday as well, the local ones on the radio as well from the weather centre, just holding a fake areal in the air with one ear to the speaker.

[I remember Atlantic 252]

4 minutes ago, feb1991blizzard said:

Yes, Countryfile was my go to thing and then there was always the mideweek one which went as far as Sunday as well, the local ones on the radio as well from the weather centre, just holding a fake areal in the air with one ear to the speaker.

12 midday every Sunday, 1990's, tha days

[Cheshire Freeze]

Proper 'beasts' from the E are the real deal in mid winter where UK winter weather is concerned. Proper deep cold. That beast at the end of Feb/beginning of March last year proved to me how buckets of water can freeze solid in no time at all with a proper deep cold flow of air. 

[hillbilly]

1987 This month saw an exceptional cold spell resulting from an easterly airstream which began in earnest on the 9th, with cold air starting to feed in from the 7th. Before that here was a wet start to the month. Then the maximum at Aviemore was -5C on the 8th and 9th. On the 9th, an anticyclone anchored over Scandinavia forced a depression moved SE over Britain leading to strong NE to E winds across England on the 10th, and bringing exceptionally cold air from an unusually cold Europe. I remember the forecast from the night before very clearly; the cold was predicted accurately well in advance. The coldest air reached England on the 11th. Maxima on the 12th January were commonly around -6C; -8C across large parts of the south; the day probably was equal to or lower than the previous lowest maximum in London (see also January 1841 and 1867). For many places this was the coldest day of the century. For example, Warlingham (Surrey) recorded a 12 hour daily maximum of -9.2C, a 24 hour maximum of -9.0C, with minima of -12.4C and -10.0C either side. Quite often it was clear and sunny, but the cold air crossing the warm North Sea led to a very high snowfall on the eastern coast, with the snow starting in the evening: 45 cm of snow settled at Southend, and 50 cm fell even in Cornwall. The Charing Cross to Dover train took 13 hours to get to Ashford. The highest temperature in Britain on the 12th was +0.1C at the Butt of Lewis; all of mainland Britain remained beneath freezing. The following night was unsurprisingly very cold everywhere, widely beneath -10C, and with -16.0C recorded at Aviemore. There was more heavy snow on the 13th and 14th. There were slightly higher temperatures on the 15th, as the extreme cold slowly eased its grip. A slow thaw began on the 20th. In parts of the south there were 14 consecutive sunless days from the 14th (to the 28th), in many places setting a new "dullness" record. Here are the noon temperatures from Gatwick from the 7th to the 20th: 0, -2, 1, -1, -5, -7, -7, -3, -2, -1, -3, -3, -3, -1. There was severe frost damage to plants on the Isles of Scilly. The lowest reading of this exceptional spell was -23.3C at Caldecott (Leics.) on the 13th; however, this reading was much lower than expected, and it has since been rejected and replaced by a minimum of -19.1C at Warsop (Notts., also on 13 January). There was freezing rain in the south Midlands. Generally it was a very dry month - the driest since 1964

An extract from 'Tom Hartley' for January 1987

[Weather-history]

On 18/12/2018 at 15:12, Ed Stone said:

Wasn't the Luton-Liverpool FA Cup tie abandoned due to the pitch freezing solid, by half time?

 

 

[feb1991blizzard]

11 minutes ago, Weather-history said:

 

It was the replay that was abandoned, Liverpool's pitch was perfect but Luton didn't bother to turn up.

[Summer of 95]

Those were the days when the replay was the same week, not 2 or 3 weeks later... The one I most remember being abandoned by snow was about 1996, Notts Forest against someone, it got abandoned before half time.

Something that doesn't seem right for 1987 in that clip: There's a Ryanair advert at the side of the pitch! That's at least 10 years before anyone had heard of them, they must have been flying something from Luton in those days.

[hillbilly]

5 hours ago, Summer of 95 said:

Those were the days when the replay was the same week, not 2 or 3 weeks later... The one I most remember being abandoned by snow was about 1996, Notts Forest against someone, it got abandoned before half time.

Something that doesn't seem right for 1987 in that clip: There's a Ryanair advert at the side of the pitch! That's at least 10 years before anyone had heard of them, they must have been flying something from Luton in those days.

https://hotspurhq.com/2014/02/19/tottenham-day-cup-match-abandoned-nottingham-snow/

[hillbilly]

On 28/09/2019 at 12:15, feb1991blizzard said:

It was the replay that was abandoned, Liverpool's pitch was perfect but Luton didn't bother to turn up.

https://www.dunstabletoday.co.uk/lifestyle/snow-didn-t-stop-luton-town-in-the-fa-cup-1-5872096

It didn't bother Luton in 1933 on their trip to the 'Shay' at my home town,they brought lots of support with them too!

[hillbilly]

An image of the crowd at the game above 

[AderynCoch]

I remember watching the Forest vs Spurs game on MOTD. It got so bad you couldn't even see the orange ball. I think they only lasted 15 minutes. 

There used to be a clip of it on YouTube but it's been taken down 

[Timmytour]

6 hours ago, AderynCoch said:

I remember watching the Forest vs Spurs game on MOTD. It got so bad you couldn't even see the orange ball. I think they only lasted 15 minutes. 

There used to be a clip of it on YouTube but it's been taken down 

I remember watching that game live on TV as I recall

As for 1987, my memory of that period of just over a week was of a cold spell but without much snow.  But that was north of the Thames. Where I worked in the City, my manager at the time could not get into work and barely could get out of his house.   There was a stark contrast as I recall between north and south of the Thames, though I imagine eastern parts of Essex did ok.  I remember it more as one of those frustrating times when (for me in Herts) we were nearly of the cusp of something magnificent, but ended up getting sod all in comparison!

 

[emmett garland]

I remember watching breakfast television on BBC  I think here in Dublin and being very jealous as i was heading to school and they were showing live pictures from Dover and i couldn't believe how big and heavy the flakes were among the lamp posts at 7 30 am in the morning. We did get some nice streamers here in Dublin during the event but my best memory is the description my best friend Gordon told me who was in London at the time and he and his parents were not equipped for such sub zero conditions and said they would never visit England again in winter .I disagree i always wished to be there during such an event.

[Coopsy]

Just spotted this thread.

My first winter memory and what a snowy spell. Up on the north downs near blue bell hill we got hit hard. A level 2.5 feet of snow was measured in our back garden. Nothing has ever come close. We were constantly hit by heavy snow over days.

I'll try and dig some of the pics out - here's a few though around the medway towns. Fantastic stuff.

[MarkW]

I remember January 10th well. I went with my dad, to watch West Brom away at Swansea in the 3rd Round of the FA CUp. There was heavy, wet snow (although it was cold) in the West Midlands. . We rang Swansea and the game was on as there had been no snow. Lo and behold, as we got onto the M50, and went towards Ross-on-Wye the snow lessened and by Wales there was nothing. It was quite cold, but not snowy. We lost 2-3 to a last minute Sean McCarthy goal after dragging ourselves level with a few minutes left. They were then in the 4th Division, (although they were doing quite well near the top), we were in the  then Div 2.