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23 minutes ago, jonboy said:

 

We have this argument about carbon and how we must at all cost go electric vehicle asap as if this will automatically cut CO2 overnight. Anyone who thinks this correct is living in cuckoo land. The amount of carbon and energy required to produce the batteries alone for electric vehicles together with the infrastructure and additional power generation to run all these additional electric vehicles far out weighs that needed today thus producing more CO2 not less

Where do you come up with this from? Sounds like you have your maths wrong...

It takes more CO2 emissions to manufacture an electric car. It's all about the fuel mix that is used for the car itself...

image.thumb.png.2137270310e0a397ae544530aeb95559.png

The above diagram shows that in coal heavy countries, emissions are similar to those from gasoline vehicles. However in low carbon supply areas such as Norway emissions per vehicle are waaaayyy lower and given fossil fuels will eventually get phased out these Figures will only improve as we develop cleaner technologies. What do you suggest? Nothing. If we followed Weirpigs suggestions we would probably end up going to war with China

You also fail to consider that electric cars are quite a new technology and there is huge scope for improvement. Improvements that will see reduction in carbon footprints, better air quality and less noise pollution. They aren't perfect but your statement is rubbish and completely false in the long term gasoline cars cannot compete with electric.

Yes far more needs to be done but what is the point in giving up?, what does it achieve? aside from filling up the already absurdly wealthy oil company owners? It's time technology advanced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_aspects_of_the_electric_car

Stop pedalling false statements.

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2 hours ago, Sugarloaf80 said:

@weirpig what is your solution then? It's east to criticise not so easy to find alternative solutions or should we all just give up. Those of us that live in Britain have to focus on the British goverment. If the UK stopped buying Chinese products we could influence their policies but you need to get your own house in order first.

well what is climate rebellion solution then? its easy to demand net zero carbon emissions by 2025 but in practical terms how is this possible? simple answer its not and they know it..so rather than working on steps forward and practical solution in realistic time frames...tell you what we will cry and stamp our feet and try to shut down cities and airports until we get our way..like responsible adults

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Posted (edited)

Any realistic 'Fix' does not work in this type of economic world.

As the N.Z. Prime minister is about to do with her economy & switch from an economy serving 'growth' to one where societal 'satisfaction' is the aim.

Enough really is a feast!

Why hoard that which You cannot use?

Chasing the Dollar will not save our planet and its inhabitants. It is the very thing that has lead us here and cost us so many species/habitats.

Now I'm surer there are far clever folk than us to flesh out what is needed of our world but rest assured Capitalism is not it!

The saddest bit of it all is that the Capitalists run the show (and there appears no shortage of sycophants to fight their corner for them even though such folk are closer to us than they are their idols) so more grand words and stained glass window all real action (whilst playing the blame game to excuse innaction?)?

Edited by Gray-Wolf

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1 hour ago, cheeky_monkey said:

well what is climate rebellion solution then? its easy to demand net zero carbon emissions by 2025 but in practical terms how is this possible? simple answer its not and they know it..so rather than working on steps forward and practical solution in realistic time frames...tell you what we will cry and stamp our feet and try to shut down cities and airports until we get our way..like responsible adults

The responsible adult would have started listening to the experts a few decades back. Instead, it seems we've been ruled by children that haven't learned how to defer gratification yet. 

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8 minutes ago, Gray-Wolf said:

Any realistic 'Fix' does not work in this type of economic world.

As the N.Z. Prime minister is about to do with her economy & switch from an economy serving 'growth' to one where societal 'satisfaction' is the aim.

Enough really is a feast!

Why hoard that which You cannot use?

Chasing the Dollar will not save our planet and its inhabitants. It is the very thing that has lead us here and cost us so many species/habitats.

Now I'm surer there are far clever folk than us to flesh out what is needed of our world but rest assured Capitalism is not it!

The saddest bit of it all is that the Capitalists run the show (and there appears no shortage of sycophants to fight their corner for them even though such folk are closer to us than they are their idols) so more grand words and stained glass window all real action (whilst playing the blame game to excuse innaction?)?

whats is? socialism..communism?

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Just now, BornFromTheVoid said:

The responsible adult would have started listening to the experts a few decades back. Instead, it seems we've been ruled by children that haven't learned how to defer gratification yet. 

two wrongs dont make a right

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15 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

two wrongs dont make a right

We've gone beyond the point where the changes can easily be absorbed. So, I guess it depends on what an "adult" should prioritise - the global ecosystem and the fate of all people (we're already in a mass extinction event and the poor are suffering worst), or, the western world and the value of share prices.

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Posted (edited)

This is my greater concern BFTV?

For years we fought disinformation and , somehow worse, complacency driven by focussing on the least impactful outcomes of any paper/report produced.

I'm either beginning (some would say 'well on with'!) losing my marbles or I've had a road to Damascus moment in recognising that 'The Elite' were not just dissing AGW to keep their profits rolling in but that they knew that the cure would involve what many would call 'Socialism'?

The radical changes to global society that any real attempt to mitigate the worst we already have in store for us would demand an end to the type of Capitalism that has driven this crisis?

An end to the world dominated by mega rich elites ,and a move toward a world where 'needs' and not 'Greed' underlays our use of resources/treatment of our Planet appears to be what is demanded?

As it is we see the mega rich setting up for their 'survival' of the climate crisis with no thought for the rest of the human population of the Planet. It is a if they have already consigned 2/3rds of Global [population to an early bath so that they might come through it all with wealth/power intact and a new 'growth spurt' for their blessed economy to tender to the needs of the drones that are left alive.

 

Nobody would wish what I outline above to be any kind of reality but then ,when we take a look at the planet and how we arrived here it is not difficult to see where wealth has been migrating to over this last 2 decades and at rates never before seen? Like the final few rounds of a game of monopoly in fact?

 

Edited by Gray-Wolf

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On 31/05/2019 at 20:49, cheeky_monkey said:

two wrongs dont make a right

And, in the case of CCDs: two idiots do not make a genius?

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Posted (edited)

Thinking of renaming this thread!.  The rebellion are at it again.  Yesterday there plan was to highlight the effect fashion  has on the environment      Blockades were erected  demonstrations a plenty. Even a fashion show including a catwalk.  You may think it would have been difficult to navigate  around the plush areas of Milan.Paris London.   But no, The streets and roads were perfectly fine.    one can only assume there was a problem with there Sat Navs     because as Parisians enjoyed a lovely Sunday afternoon in the sun.  Disgruntled People from BRISTOL were not as fortunate.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/nine-ways-extinction-rebellion-brought-2931975

Edited by weirpig

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2 hours ago, Gray-Wolf said:

This is my greater concern BFTV?

For years we fought disinformation and , somehow worse, complacency driven by focussing on the least impactful outcomes of any paper/report produced.

I'm either beginning (some would say 'well on with'!) losing my marbles or I've had a road to Damascus moment in recognising that 'The Elite' were not just dissing AGW to keep their profits rolling in but that they knew that the cure would involve what many would call 'Socialism'?

The radical changes to global society that any real attempt to mitigate the worst we already have in store for us would demand an end to the type of Capitalism that has driven this crisis?

An end to the world dominated by mega rich elites ,and a move toward a world where 'needs' and not 'Greed' underlays our use of resources/treatment of our Planet appears to be what is demanded?

As it is we see the mega rich setting up for their 'survival' of the climate crisis with no thought for the rest of the human population of the Planet. It is a if they have already consigned 2/3rds of Global [population to an early bath so that they might come through it all with wealth/power intact and a new 'growth spurt' for their blessed economy to tender to the needs of the drones that are left alive.

 

Nobody would wish what I outline above to be any kind of reality but then ,when we take a look at the planet and how we arrived here it is not difficult to see where wealth has been migrating to over this last 2 decades and at rates never before seen? Like the final few rounds of a game of monopoly in fact?

 

One of those monopoly games that goes on and on and on in a kind of stalemate where nobody gets anywhere but each time someone passes ‘go’ it just depletes the money the banker has a little more, until the point where the banker in exasperation cries “we have no money left!” at which point someone pushes the whole thing on the floor and everyone runs away...

You mean that?

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Yes Weirpig reported locally. I dont venture into Bristol much these days; maybe early in week once or twice a month to occasionally shop or maybe a lunchtime once a month to meet ex-work colleagues.

Bristol is full of white liberal lefties from privileged backgrounds and Green types these days, many not even Bristolians. It is usually the same 'suspects' whinging about all things eco OR waging war on Tesco for opening a Tesco Express near their enclave.

Interesting to see they had a die-in within Primark, which happens to be one of the few successful stores in Bristol shopping quarter, tending to those who cant afford to shop 'independently' or spend too much on 'select' clothing. It is a real irony that the most successful clothes retailers of the last 12 months are likes of Primark, online Boohoo and Asos - all reknowned for cheap produced clothes to serve the masses. And to add - whose key demographics are the more eco-friendly (so we are told) under 30s. Ordinary people NOT obviously voting with their feet or wallets.

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6 hours ago, Bristle boy said:

Yes Weirpig reported locally. I dont venture into Bristol much these days; maybe early in week once or twice a month to occasionally shop or maybe a lunchtime once a month to meet ex-work colleagues.

Bristol is full of white liberal lefties from privileged backgrounds and Green types these days, many not even Bristolians. It is usually the same 'suspects' whinging about all things eco OR waging war on Tesco for opening a Tesco Express near their enclave.

Interesting to see they had a die-in within Primark, which happens to be one of the few successful stores in Bristol shopping quarter, tending to those who cant afford to shop 'independently' or spend too much on 'select' clothing. It is a real irony that the most successful clothes retailers of the last 12 months are likes of Primark, online Boohoo and Asos - all reknowned for cheap produced clothes to serve the masses. And to add - whose key demographics are the more eco-friendly (so we are told) under 30s. Ordinary people NOT obviously voting with their feet or wallets.

What is an 'ordinary' person? I see this term used quite often these days, is it some special, better, new sort of human being? How can you tell an ordinary human being from a human being?

 

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7 hours ago, weirpig said:

Thinking of renaming this thread!.  The rebellion are at it again.  Yesterday there plan was to highlight the effect fashion  has on the environment      Blockades were erected  demonstrations a plenty. Even a fashion show including a catwalk.  You may think it would have been difficult to navigate  around the plush areas of Milan.Paris London.   But no, The streets and roads were perfectly fine.    one can only assume there was a problem with there Sat Navs     because as Parisians enjoyed a lovely Sunday afternoon in the sun.  Disgruntled People from BRISTOL were not as fortunate.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/nine-ways-extinction-rebellion-brought-2931975

Freedom of speech and assembly - who needs it eh?

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16 minutes ago, Devonian said:

What is an 'ordinary' person? I see this term used quite often these days, is it some special, better, new sort of human being? How can you tell an ordinary human being from a human being?

 

Your everyday person who just gets on with their lives, go to work and doesnt spend days protesting about this, that and tother😀 

I've always wondered what these serial protestors do for work? How do they earn their corn? Or are they just rich, privileged people who dont need to work? A bit like me😂 (i jest) - difference is i hop on a plane to the Med or Canaries😎

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Bristle boy said:

Your everyday person who just gets on with their lives, go to work and doesnt spend days protesting about this, that and tother😀 

I've always wondered what these serial protestors do for work? How do they earn their corn? Or are they just rich, privileged people who dont need to work? A bit like me😂 (i jest) - difference is i hop on a plane to the Med or Canaries😎

Well, the one I'm related to has worked her guts off in the NHS until 'retirement' (though, at aged 64, she's still working two days a week) and now has been on the XR protests in London. If that fits your stereotype so be it....

Edited by Devonian

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1 hour ago, Devonian said:

Well, the one I'm related to has worked her guts off in the NHS until 'retirement' (though, at aged 64, she's still working two days a week) and now has been on the XR protests in London. If that fits your stereotype so be it....

Anecdotal.

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2 hours ago, Devonian said:

Well, the one I'm related to has worked her guts off in the NHS until 'retirement' (though, at aged 64, she's still working two days a week) and now has been on the XR protests in London. If that fits your stereotype so be it....

Yep thats fits in with the stereotype i was thinking off.  As a matter of curiosity  what part of the country is she from?.

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2 hours ago, Devonian said:

Well, the one I'm related to has worked her guts off in the NHS until 'retirement' (though, at aged 64, she's still working two days a week) and now has been on the XR protests in London. If that fits your stereotype so be it....

And without an expanding economy forging trade deals around the globe, building the 3rd runway at Heathrow, our beloved NHS and the welfare state spending wont survive. Do any Greens and the like actually have any ideas how one would replace the current UK economy make-up with alternatives that would expand our economy to keep up with our expanding and demanding population? I think i asked this Q a few weeks ago in here and no one could answer.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Quicksilver1989 said:

I think the Greens already have the answer in having another referendum the utter farce that is brexit. We have the best trade deals with our neighbours so why throw it away?

Why allow Trump to seize on a struggling UK and encourage privatisation of the NHS and other things such as chlorinated chicken?

Anybody discussing economic expansion and no deal brexit is clueless. Stay in the EU and move on to newer, cleaner technologies that will improve our quality of life. That is all we can do.

However those plans from the Lib Dems and Greens etc are a million times better then anything the brexit party can muster. If we undergo a huge act of economic self harm then the lack of funds and our increasing desperation to stay competitive will lead us to embrace fossil fuels even more.

Not sure this is relevant to my Q posed. Brexit or No-Brexit it makes no difference.

I'm asking the Q referring to eco-friendly policies inhibiting economic expansion like resistance to 3rd Heathrow runway, road use policies designed to restrict or curtail movement by car, van or lorry. Lifeblood of our economy that support business, generating revenue to fund services, welfare state, NHS, hospital building, etc, etc. 

If policies hinder economic expansion to fund a growing population what do you propose to ensure Green policies dont hinder such expansion and restrict revenue. I've seen nothing to suggest green, eco friendly policies will ensure continuation of a healthy expanding economy that ensures a wealthier country continues to offer welfare, nhs hospitals, infrastructure, etc to support a growing UK population.

Edited by Bristle boy

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Posted (edited)

Food  for thought   may be extreme   but if its correct  shows why  strutting up and down Bristol high street will not cut it. IMO   Edit   I see also India has hit over 50c  making it the second hottest    the hottest being in 2016 at 51c

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-global-warming-end-human-civilisation-research-a8943531.html

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12236986

Edited by weirpig

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Posted (edited)

Ok  For those interested  my opinion in trying to change the world.

1  Blockade  Beilun Power station

2  mass protests at Tianaman Square  provoke the army if necessary)

3  Wasson  mass blockade

 

Got a client coming   there are three things to be going on with    tackle the big battles not the skirmishes

 

Edited by weirpig

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4 minutes ago, weirpig said:

Ive offered  solutions  you choose to ignore  them   My opinion is its too late  Geo engineering  is the only way to solve this issue    either way  protesting like rebellion do will have no affect.     Follow old Pankies lead   it may not work but at least go out fighting 

We may need to resort to geo-engineering but that is because of inaction. We can still do something about climate change by taking in cleaner technologies. Even if we do have to resort to geo-engineering the climate, moving towards cleaner technologies far outweighs the consequences of inaction.

In terms of the impacts of protesting they most certainly do have an impact. The ER protests have caused a lot more talk about climate change, whilst the Iraq protests in 2003 had a big impact on how the public look at the conflict years later. Yes protests don't always bring the desired changes but there are instances in the past when they have succeeded. Poll tax, CND and womens rights protests in the early 20th centuries did help speed up change.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45931988

If everyone just sat and did nothing, how would we expect things to change? Its easy to pick on protesters but if nobody speaks then nothing will ever change.  

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Quicksilver1989 said:

We may need to resort to geo-engineering but that is because of inaction. We can still do something about climate change by taking in cleaner technologies. Even if we do have to resort to geo-engineering the climate, moving towards cleaner technologies far outweighs the consequences of inaction.

In terms of the impacts of protesting they most certainly do have an impact. The ER protests have caused a lot more talk about climate change, whilst the Iraq protests in 2003 had a big impact on how the public look at the conflict years later. Yes protests don't always bring the desired changes but there are instances in the past when they have succeeded. Poll tax, CND and womens rights protests in the early 20th centuries did help speed up change.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45931988

If everyone just sat and did nothing, how would we expect things to change? Its easy to pick on protesters but if nobody speaks then nothing will ever change.  

I pick on the protestors because for me it's  not enough    like the org peta  another group who fight the little battles  but ignire the difficult ones    they will be doing these protests for years and nothing will change    mass die ins   in Grimsby will have no impact  clocks ticking  edit poll tax woman's rights  were in this country  the threat of global climate change  is affected by much more 

Edited by weirpig

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