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[Devonian]

Just now, cheeky_monkey said:

again who says we are living beyond our means? based on what exactly?..the world and technology is ever evolving there are things present in our lives today that would not have been imagined 30 years ago..there will be things we cannot dream of that will be everyday technology in 30 years time..i don't buy this gumpf that we are standing on the edge of disaster or the end is nigh BS

 

Beyond our means? Example.  Is it 'BS'?

I don't buy cornucopian gumpf, sorry but I don't.

[jonboy]

On ‎01‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 07:20, Devonian said:

Prove your previous points please and also please prove that you are dispassionate.

Or, stop asking other people for proof. Your bluster isn't an answer.

Neither is yours and to be honest that's all you ever give

[Devonian]

26 minutes ago, jonboy said:

Neither is yours and to be honest that's all you ever give

I'll stop asking you for proof, if you stop asking others for said. Deal?

[Methuselah]

44 minutes ago, Devonian said:

I'll stop asking you for proof, if you stop asking others for said. Deal?

Come on, Dev...You know that the onus is on you to provide a comprehensive algebraic derivation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics whenever you make a point?

In the meantime Deniers need simply demand 'proof' -- a sure enough sign of scientific illiteracy, in itself...

But I guess that's the point...

[BornFromTheVoid]

The proof for the consensus papers lie in the papers themselves and the people that work in the area of climate change agreeing from personal experience

It's those that say those papers and opinions are BS that need to provide proof (copying opinions from denier blogs does not count).

As for why we should be concerned about living beyond our means as a species, the fact that, lets say, we're currently causing the Earth's 6th mass extinction event is surely more than enough proof, right? No amount of pointing out apparent hypocrisies of millennials or others changes what we are doing to the planet.

[weirpig]

18 hours ago, Devonian said:

Ok, I understand you position wrt the atmosphere. 

I think what you're saying is if it's as bad a XRers think they should stop being peaceful and get tough - but shouldn't you be doing so, because you don't seem to be taking the 'sceptic' line? I don't think that 'get tough' is the answer but I do think for some it might come to that. If XRers are right, then right will be more and more on their side and the job easier.

Yes i Think they should get much more tough  and stop persisting with this very narrow minded narrative of causing travel chaos  on infrastructure which is much less harming to to the environment  then such as cars etc  Blockading Trains/Undergrounds  and glueing one selves to buildings  IMO wont cause anything apart from alienating the general public.  In regards to myself  you are correct i might sound somewhat hypocritical   but my opinion is that we are already past the point of no return  and call me selfish  but i have more important things  (in regards to my own life/family)  that i would rather concentrate on    I suppose  with me its a case of ca sera sera   

[Methuselah]

Due to XR's activities in London, there was a 25% reduction in Oxford Street's shops' footfall...There was also a 49% reduction in NO2 pollution!

So, who says peaceful protests don't work...?

Edited May 2, 2019 by Ed Stone

[Gray-Wolf]

I take it you missed Yesterday's HoC debate ,and vote, on declaring a climate and environment Emergency Weirpig?

If that isn't a fair result for a few days action I don't know what is!

 

[Flash bang flash bang etc]

14 hours ago, Bristle boy said:

So what is the solution? If we assume climate change is actually happening, and we further assume it is human-made, what changes would you make to society? It's all very well people mouthing "We need to act now to save our planet" but what does that actually mean?

Do you place restrictions on people travelling by car and/or plane? 

Should people only be allowed to travel by plane once or twice/year?

Do you ban all coal burning fires and/or wood burners?

Do you ban all gas-fired central heating systems?

Is the solution to tax, tax, tax?

If you fundamentally change the way a developed country actually operates then what happens if tax revenue suffers or an economy becomes less developed? How do you replace govt revenue that pays for hospitals, the welfare state, etc?

How do you support the population?

The younger generation that supposedly are more morally correct on the future of our planet continue to play hypocrites when it comes to sustainability. Three of the most successful clothes retailers over the last year or so (latest financial results prove this) are also responsible for the cheapest clothes that one can throw away after a few wears; those clothes retailers are Boohoo, Asos and Primark. All 3 attract most of their customers from the under 30s age groups. So is this age group really more morally responsible than the rest of us?

I love the use of the word ‘assume’ in the first paragraph

Because all the scientists and researchers just sat around once in 1975 and assumed this was all happening.

Give it a rest - you deniers and sceptics are just too scared to open the box and look inside. There’s an unpleasant, enormous and inconvenient issue inside it and it’s not going away. One day we will have to face the music, why not now?

 

(Breathes in...)

 

As regards WHAT we do... stop living like we can do whatever we feel like all the time. Our current freedoms come at the expense of those of future generations and at the expense of the hundreds of thousands of species that go extinct each year (citation needed here, I know).

What additionally worries me is how the masses will cope psychologically when the evidence becomes so stark that it can no longer be refuted, ignored, distorted and denied. I would expect a huge uptake in prescribed medication for anti-depressants at the very least...

... alternatively ...

... we COULD just start pulling together and discuss constructive ways to use this planet sustainably - and accept that our current freedoms aren’t a given, and we will need to make changes to all aspects of our lives - as ONE species, living TOGETHER on ONE planet.

 

(Breathes out....)

Edited May 2, 2019 by Flash bang flash bang etc

[Gray-Wolf]

The real folk who are mainly responsible for where we are will blame us all for our 'consumption'.

Sadly we have been lead into this destructive 'consumption at unsustainable levels' by those who want the cash this floods their offshore accounts with ?

Such folk have no wish to change the scam that has worked so well for them.

We need leave this model behind if we are serious about saving our world for our children/grandchildren.

We need produce what we need not what we desire ( I'm not saying there is no place for development/advancement)

Whilst we are at it we can get rid of current forms of 'money' and start from scratch at fairly redistributing the planets wealth among all its people?

[weirpig]

57 minutes ago, Ed Stone said:

Due to XR's activities in London, there was a 25% reduction in Oxford Street's shops' footfall...There was also a 49% reduction in NO2 pollution!

So, who says peaceful protests don't work...?

Lol   I hope you are being sarcastic pete.

[Flash bang flash bang etc]

22 minutes ago, Gray-Wolf said:

The real folk who are mainly responsible for where we are will blame us all for our 'consumption'.

Sadly we have been lead into this destructive 'consumption at unsustainable levels' by those who want the cash this floods their offshore accounts with ?

Such folk have no wish to change the scam that has worked so well for them.

We need leave this model behind if we are serious about saving our world for our children/grandchildren.

We need produce what we need not what we desire ( I'm not saying there is no place for development/advancement)

Whilst we are at it we can get rid of current forms of 'money' and start from scratch at fairly redistributing the planets wealth among all its people?

I am certain capitalism can work in a positive way - you need an incentive for people to put their time and passion into a project or task and in some form or other a capitalist system can provide the reward to the bold as well as assisting those at a disadvantage.

Capitalism and the plundering of resources are not mutually exclusive, I assure you.

The problem is we’ve let people become complacent, ignorant, greedy and impulsive - and that’s like an addiction.

The XR campaign and looming reality of environmental disaster is essentially like telling those afflicted by the corruption of greed and/or impulsion that they can’t have any more of ‘the good stuff’, and they fear the withdrawal (because as we know from countless studies and Mariah Carey lyrics that material excess rarely gives an individual a sense of purpose or higher level of wellbeing) so without being able to generate limitless excess material wealth for themselves - or show it off to the rest of the world for validation - what else would they do?

[Bristawl Si]

45 minutes ago, Flash bang flash bang etc said:

I love the use of the word ‘assume’ in the first paragraph

Because all the scientists and researchers just sat around once in 1975 and assumed this was all happening.

Give it a rest - you deniers and sceptics are just too scared to open the box and look inside. There’s an unpleasant, enormous and inconvenient issue inside it and it’s not going away. One day we will have to face the music, why not now?

 

(Breathes in...)

 

As regards WHAT we do... stop living like we can do whatever we feel like all the time. Our current freedoms come at the expense of those of future generations and at the expense of the hundreds of thousands of species that go extinct each year (citation needed here, I know).

What additionally worries me is how the masses will cope psychologically when the evidence becomes so stark that it can no longer be refuted, ignored, distorted and denied. I would expect a huge uptake in prescribed medication for anti-depressants at the very least...

... alternatively ...

... we COULD just start pulling together and discuss constructive ways to use this planet sustainably - and accept that our current freedoms aren’t a given, and we will need to make changes to all aspects of our lives - as ONE species, living TOGETHER on ONE planet.

 

(Breathes out....)

So not one suggestion how one would implement policies that address your concerns, but at the same time maintain a prosperous and functioning economy that will continue to support 60m people (UK).

Just typical of the one-trick pony outraged.

[Flash bang flash bang etc]

15 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

So not one suggestion how one would implement policies that address your concerns, but at the same time maintain a prosperous and functioning economy that will continue to support 60m people (UK).

Just typical of the one-trick pony outraged.

What I’m trying to suggest is that it’s not up to me - alone - to come up with a host of rock-solid answers. We all work together - focussed on the fact that it is, indeed, happening - and everyone takes collective responsibility.

It seems that your solution is inactivity, and hope for the best.

It’s hard to fix the world - I get it - but it’s even harder when the majority of people don’t want to accept it needs fixing in the first place.

One really good solution would be to shame those who use 4x4s and other unnecessarily energy-hungry vehicles for improper purposes.

I agree you can’t outlaw stuff like that but a collective sharing of responsibility and real look at ourselves and the way we live would make massive strides to helping turn the ship around.

We waste SO. MUCH. ENERGY.

We waste SO. MUCH. FOOD.

We waste SO. MUCH. TIME arguing about CC and poo-pooing any attempt to start a really constructive approach to answering the burning questions and looking for solutions.

I’d really hate to think anyone doesn’t care about the shortened lifespan of our planet. But I do think people find it easy to bury their heads in the sand and I don’t want to be in a situation where deniers realised the reality too late and started saying enough wasn’t done to raise alarm about the issue.

Thats what many of us ‘greenies’, ‘hippies’, ‘naysayers’, ‘doom-mongers’ and ‘moaners’ have been trying to do for years.

Doesn’t mean we’re not humans who also use this planet and it’s resources for the purposes of living, but at least we are facing a the threat of a very real crisis head on and - at the very least - thinking (or starting to think) about how to avoid catastrophe and find a way out of the mess.

One thing I do agree with you on - it will most probably nope - still swearing the economy of many countries and it will more than likely in some way nope - still swearing society itself (the swear is necessary for effect).

If we do nothing that’s a certainty anyway from what I gather - so your argument falls a little flat IMHO.

We may as well TRY to do something?

[Flash bang flash bang etc]

Here’s an idea:

• All new businesses (anyone who wants to start a business) must undergo a test - like the driving theory test - which highlights basic environmental processes, ‘green’ practices, emissions monitoring methods as well as net-zero practices to offset any harm done in the course of business

Could be a way to make sure anyone profiting significantly from resource use is clued-up about what they need to do?

[Flash bang flash bang etc]

To conclude:

yes I am proudly outraged. What’s wrong with that?

[Flash bang flash bang etc]

Here’s another idea:

• Moss domes - public places like local shopping precincts to be housed under a dome of moss. Domes increase the surface area so a small space could have up to [maths] times the usual amount of moss if it’s grown on the outside of the hollow dome. Would provide shelter for the shoppers and shops underneath as well as acting as a sink for CO2 and a place for insects and wildlife to thrive.

[Flash bang flash bang etc]

Another idea:

• The Lincolnshire Storm Bus: An electric bus service which takes people to and from Lincolnshire on days when the Convective Weather storm forecast is SLGT or above. Vegan snacks to be provided on board, as well as an acoustic guitarist who’ll be playing Crowded House classics.

[weirpig]

2 minutes ago, Flash bang flash bang etc said:

Another idea:

• The Lincolnshire Storm Bus: An electric bus service which takes people to and from Lincolnshire on days when the Convective Weather storm forecast is SLGT or above. Vegan snacks to be provided on board, as well as an acoustic guitarist who’ll be playing Crowded House classics.

You had me  until you mentioned Crowded House.  If that was the only option  i expect my alternative of a Mass suicide pact  which would then help reduce the worlds population   would come across as a much better alternative  

[The PIT]

I just learnt I'm a good boy as thermostat is set at 16C to 17C.

Had to laugh at the TV with this women who hasn't a clue about averages saying we had a dry spring. Well here it's 5mm below average and we've missed a lot of showers. Of course this will vary from place to place and region to region. We've had a dry winter though and if May follows last month which at the moment looks unlikely it will end up a drier than average spring.

The average rainfall here looks fairly well unchanged since 1955 http://www.sheffieldweather.co.uk/Averages/MONTHLYRAINAVERAGE.htm

[Bristawl Si]

The majority of Britons are unwilling to significantly reduce the amount they drive, fly and eat meat in order to combat climate change, a Sky Data poll reveals.

Just over half - 53% - say they would be unwilling even in principle to significantly reduce the amount they fly, while 28% say they would be willing to give up travelling by plane or reduce the amount they do so significantly (19% say they never fly anyway).

Some 56% say they would be unwilling to drive significantly less to protect the environment, with 28% saying they would be willing to reduce the amount they drive significantly or give it up entirely (17% already do not drive)

[Flash bang flash bang etc]

15 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

The majority of Britons are unwilling to significantly reduce the amount they drive, fly and eat meat in order to combat climate change, a Sky Data poll reveals.

Just over half - 53% - say they would be unwilling even in principle to significantly reduce the amount they fly, while 28% say they would be willing to give up travelling by plane or reduce the amount they do so significantly (19% say they never fly anyway).

Some 56% say they would be unwilling to drive significantly less to protect the environment, with 28% saying they would be willing to reduce the amount they drive significantly or give it up entirely (17% already do not drive)

Interesting stats and not entirely unexpected. Would definately be interesting to see if and how that changes over the next few years (depending on events and eco-politics...)

[Devonian]

2 hours ago, Bristle boy said:

The majority of Britons are unwilling to significantly reduce the amount they drive, fly and eat meat in order to combat climate change, a Sky Data poll reveals.

Just over half - 53% - say they would be unwilling even in principle to significantly reduce the amount they fly, while 28% say they would be willing to give up travelling by plane or reduce the amount they do so significantly (19% say they never fly anyway).

Some 56% say they would be unwilling to drive significantly less to protect the environment, with 28% saying they would be willing to reduce the amount they drive significantly or give it up entirely (17% already do not drive)

I'm amazed it's 19% but, not amazed most don't give a flying...

This is a wild guess, but maybe most people think a sparrow is a type of crane hire (and fewer know a crane can be a bird too).

Edited May 2, 2019 by Devonian

[cheeky_monkey]

13 hours ago, Ed Stone said:

Due to XR's activities in London, there was a 25% reduction in Oxford Street's shops' footfall...There was also a 49% reduction in NO2 pollution!

So, who says peaceful protests don't work...?

there was also a massive spike in the rest of london for CO2 emission and NO2 pollution due to lots of stationary and slow moving traffic caused by the protesters

[cheeky_monkey]

6 hours ago, Bristle boy said:

The majority of Britons are unwilling to significantly reduce the amount they drive, fly and eat meat in order to combat climate change, a Sky Data poll reveals.

 

so much for reflecting the views of the ordinary people then as has been touted