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Vaping. A risk one way or the other.


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Phillip Morris has launched its own stop smoking campaign:

https://smokefreefuture.co.uk/hold-my-light/?open=heated-tobacco

Lots of gnashing of teeth and moaning about them doing so:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45932048

but car companies have been seeling up gas guzzling polluting cars for decades and can't see anyone calling them hypocritical for now selling us 'green' cars.

At the end of the day they have an advertising budget that the traditional anti-smoking organizations could only dream off if through this budget they can get out a good quit smoking campaign going, does it really matter where the money comes from?

 

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I have been a long time lurker for13 years and rarely post. This thread has moved me to reply. I used to be a smoker and I am now paying the price for smoking. Nature has developed our lungs for breat

I'd much prefer vapour to clouds of cancer smoke from cigarettes, although in an ideal world I would have neither of them.

The people blowing out billowing clouds of vapour as if to say "Behold! My Self righteous cloud of Pineapple!" are very much in a minority... ... and as someone who recently (a year back) was able

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On 22/08/2018 at 09:12, TEITS said:

Back in January I was in intensive care due to pneumonia and sepsis. Upon discharge I decided to give up smoking and start vaping instead. After 30 years of smoking these e cigs are brilliant because since January I haven't had one cigarette or even been tempted to have one. The respiratory consultant was fully supportive of me vaping.

However I do not think vaping should be allowed on buses or restaurants as some devices can produce huge amounts of vapour.

At the moment I use the Aspire Zelos but thinking of upgrading to the much more powerful Smok Mag.

Hi Dave, Teits,  Eye in the sky... Hope your ok? Not seen you around in the hunt for cold Thread.... Really miss your Posts.

All the best Dave. ??

 

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I gave up smoking three years ago, only way for me was to stop there and then completely.

If the steam fags help people give up that great, but most just seem to use them as an alternative with no intention of packing it in

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Butter-Scented Chemical Linked to "Popcorn Lung" Discovered in Vape Juices
It's the most common flavoring chemical in e-liquids

https://www.inverse.com/article/52946-popcorn-lung-chemical-diacetyl-found-in-vape-juice


The peer reviewed paper on it is below:

Transcriptomic response of primary human airway epithelial cells to flavoring chemicals in electronic cigarettes
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-37913-9

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21 hours ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

Butter-Scented Chemical Linked to "Popcorn Lung" Discovered in Vape Juices
It's the most common flavoring chemical in e-liquids

https://www.inverse.com/article/52946-popcorn-lung-chemical-diacetyl-found-in-vape-juice


The peer reviewed paper on it is below:

Transcriptomic response of primary human airway epithelial cells to flavoring chemicals in electronic cigarettes
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-37913-9

The EU banned the use of diacetyl and so no e liquids in the UK contain this chemical.

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/cancer-controversies/does-vaping-cause-popcorn-lung

Now 13 months since I last had a cigarette thanks to vaping and im especially enjoying my raspberry & blackcurrant e liquid at the moment.

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12 minutes ago, TEITS said:

The EU banned the use of diacetyl and so no e liquids in the UK contain this chemical.

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/cancer-controversies/does-vaping-cause-popcorn-lung

Now 13 months since I last had a cigarette thanks to vaping and im especially enjoying my raspberry & blackcurrant e liquid at the moment.

Lets hope as we leave brexit we dont see imports of diacetyl containg liquids from the states. Vapours dont understand how nasty popcorn lung is

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2 hours ago, TEITS said:

The EU banned the use of diacetyl and so no e liquids in the UK contain this chemical.

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/cancer-controversies/does-vaping-cause-popcorn-lung

Now 13 months since I last had a cigarette thanks to vaping and im especially enjoying my raspberry & blackcurrant e liquid at the moment.

The study looked at diacetyl, and it's substitute chemical, 2,3-pentanedione, which is not yet banned by the EU. They found similar effects from both.

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15 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

The study looked at diacetyl, and it's substitute chemical, 2,3-pentanedione, which is not yet banned by the EU. They found similar effects from both.

All I know is I started vaping 13 months ago and only a few weeks ago had a chest X ray which showed no problems whatsoever.  Vaping has been a revelation in helping me quit and can feel the health benefits since I quit i.e no cough in the morning, I smell alot better too!

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28 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

The study looked at diacetyl, and it's substitute chemical, 2,3-pentanedione, which is not yet banned by the EU. They found similar effects from both.

Sorry but these studies are flawed. There have been ZERO cases of popcorn lung caused by diacetyl in e-liquid - this is miss information created by pharma & tobacco funding. The concentration needed for it to cause any ill effects are 100's times more than found in e-cig flavours. The term comes from some workers who became ill after working in an environment in the US that  used to make popcorn. They were exposed to high concerntrationsof it over decades. The diacetyl used in that factory was over a 100 times more potent than that found in any popcorn/butter type flavourings. My favourite flavour is custard. I have been using it for years. It contains diacetyl. I recently had x-rays and lung capacity investigations after a car accident. The doctor said my lungs are as healthy as a 10 year olds. I asked about popcorn lung from e-liquid. Dr said it's a myth.

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17 minutes ago, TEITS said:

All I know is I started vaping 13 months ago and only a few weeks ago had a chest X ray which showed no problems whatsoever.  Vaping has been a revelation in helping me quit and can feel the health benefits since I quit i.e no cough in the morning, I smell alot better too!

That's all fine, I'm sure it's much better than smoking regardless. I just thought the study was interesting content for the thread.

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I took up vaping to get me off the cigarettes once and for all, and it worked.  I also used to smoke 'other herbs' in the tobacco but I have managed to find an alternative to that also (dry herb vaporiser) so I am now smoke free and feel great for it.

I got into doing vape tricks and so I bought one of the more powerful units (which I rarely use now) and did notice that a lot of people would look at me like I was scum and would waft their hands in front of their faces and make disapproving noises.... even though they were walking through clouds of cigarette smoke from other passers by without any reaction.

Most of the problem people have with vaping is that's it's "new and trendy" and people (me included sometimes) have a habit of disliking things they don't understand.  But many of my friends who bemoaned my vaping as a 'fad' were the same people that starting guzzling down avocado smoothies, grew big hippy beards and topknots because everyone else was doing it. ?

 

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16 minutes ago, SNMartyn said:

Sorry but these studies are flawed. There have been ZERO cases of popcorn lung caused by diacetyl in e-liquid - this is miss information created by pharma & tobacco funding. The concentration needed for it to cause any ill effects are 100's times more than found in e-cig flavours. The term comes from some workers who became ill after working in an environment in the US that  used to make popcorn. They were exposed to high concerntrationsof it over decades. The diacetyl used in that factory was over a 100 times more potent than that found in any popcorn/butter type flavourings. My favourite flavour is custard. I have been using it for years. It contains diacetyl. I recently had x-rays and lung capacity investigations after a car accident. The doctor said my lungs are as healthy as a 10 year olds. I asked about popcorn lung from e-liquid. Dr said it's a myth.

That's not what the study is about exactly. It's new, and not funded or published by big tobacco or big pharma. This study used certain lung cells and exposed them to the chemicals in question, then noted changes in their DNA expression and in the number of cilia on the cells.
The study doesn't make any definite claims about long term exposure to low concentrations of these chemicals, it's more about seeing how these chemicals interact with lung cells. They suggest further studies, as is normal with this kind of thing. You can only do so much at a time.

I think it's useful to look into these things, especially with many teenagers taking up vaping, it could really end up being a life long habit. Better to be informed than to simply cross our fingers and hope for the best.

Edited by BornFromTheVoid
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I remember a facebook post doing the rounds a few years ago showing pictures of 'popcorn lung' and saying vaping 100% causes it.... however after a while it became clear that the evidence was taken from workers who had been chronically exposed to high concentrations of diacetyl in a manufacturing environment.

It's good if there are studies ongoing to clear up the smoking vs vaping subject, I'm 99% sure they'll prove that vaping presents minimal risks as long as users buy their juices from reputable sources only and use equipment that has been tested and is regularly cleaned.

 

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36 minutes ago, BornFromTheVoid said:

That's not what the study is about exactly. It's new, and not funded or published by big tobacco or big pharma. This study used certain lung cells and exposed them to the chemicals in question, then noted changes in their DNA expression and in the number of cilia on the cells.
The study doesn't make any definite claims about long term exposure to low concentrations of these chemicals, it's more about seeing how these chemicals interact with lung cells. They suggest further studies, as is normal with this kind of thing. You can only do so much at a time.

I think it's useful to look into these things, especially with many teenagers taking up vaping, it could really end up being a life long habit. Better to be informed than to simply cross our fingers and hope for the best.

Agree the effects of tobacco were little understood early on and some people have had little or no effect whereas after many years of use others have terrible lung disease.

The effect of these chemicals on lung tissue is not fully understood and such research has to be welcomed. It will not be right if in twenty or thirty years time vapour users start suffering from popcorn lung. Popcorn lung got its name from popcorn manufacturing where long term exposure to the flavouring agent  diacetyl (2,3-butanedione) was found to be the cause.

Popcorn lung is not curable, its nasty and a horrible way to die. If there is any chance that these chemicals are being used in flavourings then they should be banned and at the very worst people should be made aware so that they can check the ingredients themselves.

I remember 40 years ago Asbestos was considered a useful product. in 1999 we finally banned asbestos use in products over 2500 people in the UK still die every year from asbestos related diseases lets hope vaping is not the new asbestos!!!

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On ‎04‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 11:58, jonboy said:

Agree the effects of tobacco were little understood early on and some people have had little or no effect whereas after many years of use others have terrible lung disease.

The effect of these chemicals on lung tissue is not fully understood and such research has to be welcomed. It will not be right if in twenty or thirty years time vapour users start suffering from popcorn lung. Popcorn lung got its name from popcorn manufacturing where long term exposure to the flavouring agent  diacetyl (2,3-butanedione) was found to be the cause.

Popcorn lung is not curable, its nasty and a horrible way to die. If there is any chance that these chemicals are being used in flavourings then they should be banned and at the very worst people should be made aware so that they can check the ingredients themselves.

I remember 40 years ago Asbestos was considered a useful product. in 1999 we finally banned asbestos use in products over 2500 people in the UK still die every year from asbestos related diseases lets hope vaping is not the new asbestos!!!

Many instances of substances found to be less than pleasant in later years.

Who knew that luminous green paint on clock hands was so deadly for the workers. They licked the paint brush tip to get a nice point, many died horrible radiation related deaths.

If you really want to pack up smoking do it, got a bad feeling about these devices

 

 

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On 04/02/2019 at 08:08, TEITS said:

The EU banned the use of diacetyl and so no e liquids in the UK contain this chemical.

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/cancer-controversies/does-vaping-cause-popcorn-lung

Now 13 months since I last had a cigarette thanks to vaping and im especially enjoying my raspberry & blackcurrant e liquid at the moment.

Dave i have only just read this post and i am absolutely thrilled for you.

I myself have serious lung problems due to smoking, i have been quit a few months now and use the nicorette quickmist which is absolutely brilliant and really works for me, i wish you all the best in the future.

Like me you probably rue the day you picked up a cigarette, but im sure we have both done the right thing.

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4 hours ago, northwestsnow said:

Dave i have only just read this post and i am absolutely thrilled for you.

I myself have serious lung problems due to smoking, i have been quit a few months now and use the nicorette quickmist which is absolutely brilliant and really works for me, i wish you all the best in the future.

Like me you probably rue the day you picked up a cigarette, but im sure we have both done the right thing.

Just wanted to add. I don't think I have ever met a single person who actually enjoys the habit of smoking. I think the evidence is overwhelming that vaporisers are a great tool in getting off this horrible drug.

Whilst I have never smoked cigarettes, I smoked cannabis whilst studying; I convinced myself it helped me studying course material and reduced anxiety before an exam. I  I managed to kick that though pretty easy maybe 15 years ago and I only really missed the feeling of how good food tasted and music sounded. It also never made me lazy, because I was always actively studying or doing something whilst under the influence. 

Ultimately, smoking anything is bad. But unequivocally, the mechanisms in which vaporising introduces nicotine into the bloodstream that is picked up by the brain (nicotine isn't a carcinogen in itself) are far safer than burning a plant which contains a multitude of harmful chemicals. But, much like energy drinks there does seem to be a lack of research into the potential harmful effects. 

Edited by Optimus Prime
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Had someone here who insisted in vaping. He was told in no uncertain terms he could do it outside our house. He went into our garage puffing away. Like a steam train coming out if a tunnel it was.  Biggest laugh was he tripped over because he couldn’t see where he was going. At least he was big enough to say he had made a mistake. 

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At least the risks from smoking are well known, humans have co-existed with smoke for about a million years, these exotic chemicals designed to go straight into your body tissue can hardly be a good thing.
There's also the risk of bad batches and much cheapness which seems to have caused the recent spate of incidents in the US.
Surely there are better ways to stop smoking than moving onto some alternative addiction.
You could just stop for example, or not start.

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Confession time- I haven't touched an "analogue cigarette" as they are called, since septembre 2016. I vape from time to time, especially when a bit stressed but running and cycling takes care of most of that. Once you're not a total vape head doing it from morning to night it's got to be better than inhaling all that merde from tobacco cigarettes.

As an aside, my physical health improved dramatically after quitting the fags. I went to the doctor last week for a checkup and yes, I run and cycle and eat healthily but my blood pressure reading was delightful - 105/60 - for a 54 year old that is pretty cool

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