The Midlands Regional Weather Discussion 19/01/2018 Onwards

[MattStoke]

3 minutes ago, stokepa31 said:

Its no surprise snow is melting. Sun is actually pretty strong. surfaces soak up the heat. snow falls, covers and then melts as thermal feedback from the ground releases the latent heat prior to the snow cover

So how did it melt with full, thick cloud cover earlier, in the early part of the day when the sun's influence would have been around it's weakest?

Why doesn't it seem to happen at lower latitudes where the sun is stronger?

Edited February 27, 2018 by MattStoke

[Gord]

Looks like that big shower that blew through Nottingham is heading towards Stafford and Cannock. Will go north of Wolverhampton.

For us here in the Black Country, still a few showers heading this way. To be honest, after getting a direct hit in December, I'm finding this interesting but not too fussed it's all missing me so far.

Enjoying reading about the huge variations around the country though. My family back in Lowestoft say they've got round 4-5cm last night but a thaw is setting in now. Yet other reports from not far away from there have about as much as we do.

Interesting times ahead...and then after it's all gone, we can get our teeth into Spring and start thinking about other things coming out of convective shower clouds!

[shaky]

Is there anything more substantial forecasted for tonight other than these showers going through at a rapid rate?

[Severe Siberian icy blast]

Just now, MattStoke said:

So how did it melt with full, thick cloud cover earlier, in the early part of the day when the sun's influence would have been around it's weakest?

3 options,

1 the sun heat was getting through the cloud cover and given the time of year it stil did a job.

2 the temp is above freezing despite your thermometer 

3 low points are so low the snow has now water content and dissolves, happened in 2013 

[stokepa31]

There is a reason surface temps are recorded at 2m. Its a reflection that absolute ground temperature can be influenced by other factor such as solar radiation

[MattStoke]

3 minutes ago, Severe Siberian icy blast said:

3 options,

1 the sun heat was getting through the cloud cover and given the time of year it stil did a job.

2 the temp is above freezing despite your thermometer 

3 low points are so low the snow has now water content and dissolves, happened in 2013 

Don't think it evaporated. Ground was left wet.

The cloud cover was thick and it was not long after sunrise.

My station is broken :-( Having to use official obs.

It's bright sunshine at the moment. So would make more sense now.

Anyway, some hefty looking showers approaching. We'll see what happens.

Edited February 27, 2018 by MattStoke

[Weather-history]

4 minutes ago, MattStoke said:

So how did it melt with full, thick cloud cover earlier, in the early part of the day when the sun's influence would have been around it's weakest?

Why doesn't it seem to happen at lower latitudes where the sun is stronger?

Infrared radiation 

[kmanmx]

9 minutes ago, MattStoke said:

Is it 10 degrees out there? Funny, it says it sub zero. Maybe drop the attitude.

My attitude ? Lol - you're constantly negative, moaning on here that snow is melting as if it's someones fault or the world is against you. There is nothing ridiculous about snow melting. If the conditions were right for snow to not melt, it wouldn't melt. Simple. You're acting like a petulant child who had his dummy taken. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by kmanmx

[Sparkiee storm]

Snow hasn't stopped yet since the early hours, it has slowed to where it almost stopped but never completely, had a heavier burst for a few second about 30 mins ago with large flakes, but woke up to a nice dusting on all surfaces  

[MattStoke]

1 minute ago, kmanmx said:

My attitude ? Lol - you're constantly negative, moaning on here that snow is melting as if it's someones fault or the world is against you. There is nothing ridiculous about snow melting. If the conditions were right for snow to not melt, it wouldn't melt. Simple. You're acting like a petulant child who had his dummy taken. 

And you're sarky and condesending. Guess we're even.

[MattStoke]

2 minutes ago, Weather-history said:

Infrared radiation 

Surely would be stronger at lower latitudes and weak here early in the day under thick cloud cover?

[Gord]

Reminds of a day during March when I was living in Columbus, Ohio. We had shower streams blowing down on a strong arctic flow from Lake Michigan, very similar to the set up today. Except there were 2 big differences. The showers were incredibly heavy and intense, and the sun inbetween them was very now very strong at that latitude at that time of year. Also, the wind was very strong blowing the showers well over the land from the lake.

So we had this situation where 3 to 6 inches could fall very quickly causing a very brief moment of chaos, then an hour later, everything was just wet with an incredibly quick thaw, then the next shower and so on...rinse and repeat. The official records at the local airport show a total of 0 inches of lying snow for that day because of the timing meant they must have got the offical measurement during one of the sunny periods! Still remains one of the oddest weather days I've experienced. Felt like everytime I turned to look out of the window to see what was going on a different season was happening!

Would love those big showers here today, but the North Sea doesn't seem to be able to get the energy into the showers like Lake Michigan can! I suppose the cold air is a lot less modified over there.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Gord

[Diamond Joe]

Fingers crossed for my area and heavier looking burst heading from Coventry 

[V for Very Cold]

all I can say is it's a lovely cool spring day in Telford!

[snowstorm27x]

Heavy snow here. Covering already.

[Staffordshire]

Just on the edge of that shower heading towards Cannock, got our covering renewed within 5 minutes.

[kmanmx]

8 minutes ago, MattStoke said:

And you're sarky and condesending. Guess we're even.

I'll take it.

But i'll answer you seriously. If you are at the location indicated under your avatar, currently says your area air temp is 2c. Explains the melt, even if ground temps are below freezing. 

[Bishop Brennan]

Yaaaay, excellent snow shower here right now, really coming down! 

Bish

[Cov87]

Heavy snow shower currently in coventry

[Walsall Wood Snow]

Coming down really thick and heavy.

[MattStoke]

Decent flurry coming down but the sun is out. Looks nice but only settling in the shade.

[Midlands Ice Age]

Next shower heading this way now...

As to 'melt'. I think it is a combination of alll the above!!!

The last quite heavy shower lasted about 10mins.

It settled everywhere.

Now an hour later  it is still present on the trees in the shade, but has melted on the ground where the sun (out for10mins) was.

Through out the dewpoint was about -4.5C. The temperature on one of my thermometer has gone from -0.7C in the shower to 4.1C, when the sun shone (it is enclosed).

So I think there has been a bit for everyone there!!  

Meanwhile we now have a blizzard of large flakes falling again with reduced visibility....

Yes it is settling everywhere again!!!

The temperature has dropped from 0.9C to now 0.3C inside the 2 minutes I have been typing.

Edit now at 0C and the sun is shining again!!!

Wonderful weather!

How about enjoying it?

MIA

Edited February 27, 2018 by Midlands Ice Age

[Kirton Snowman]

Just gone through that snow shower, was quite heavy but again only settled on the grass nowhere else

[fizz511]

1 minute ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Next shower heading this way now...

As to 'melt'. I think it is a combination of alll the above!!!

The last quite heavy shower lasted about 10mins.

It settled everywhere.

Now an hour late it is still present on the trees in the shade, but has melted on the ground where the sun (out for10mins) was.

Through out the dewpoint was about -4.5C. The temperature on one of my thermometer has gone from -0.7C in the shower to 4.1C, when the sun shone (it is enclosed).

So I think there has been a bit for everyone there!!  

Meanwhile we now have a blizzard of large flakes falling again with reduced visibility....

Yes it is settling everywhere again!!!

The temperature has dropped from 0.9C to now 0.3C inside the 2 minutes I have been typing.

Edit now at 0C and the sun is shining again!!!

Wonderful weather!

How about enjoying it?

MIA

Amazing how different it is just down the road - no thick flakes here....

[kar999]

1 hour ago, Snowyowl9 said:

Need to ask an expert on here why it does that.

Well feels warm out there today actually with no wind,watch out when those proper stronger easterlies come in,not had then strong at all yet.

I'm no expert but the reason that the snow is melting even when it's below freezing is due to Sublimation.. It's actually evaporating rather than melting due to the very dry wind and solar warmth from the sun.

"sublimation is most often used to describe the process of snow and ice changing into water vapor in the air without first melting into water...."

https://water.usgs.gov/edu/watercyclesublimation.html

Nick also mentioned it in his NW Blog... https://www.netweather.tv/weather-forecasts/news/8752-the-beast-from-the-east-cometh

Quote

 

Very dry continental air and low temperatures at the surface will mean little melt of snow

With very low dew points / very dry air of the bitterly cold easterly flow next week, snow melt is likely to be fairly minimal too, similar to March 2013. Though the very dry air may lead to reduction of snow cover through evaporation or sublimation to use the technical definition.

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by kar999