Model Moans, Ramps and Banter

[mountain shadow]

22 minutes ago, cheese said:

And those 22 miles make a big difference. It means Paris is colder than London in winter despite being 200 or so miles further south. 

And in any case, 22 miles is the distance between the very narrowest point of the channel between Dover and Calais. If all of the UK's south or east coast was just 22 miles from the continent it might make more of a difference. It's the same in summer - normal for heatwaves to miss the UK while affecting Benelux and northern France.

For a weather forum, people on here seem to have a poor understanding of weather/climate.

Paris is not Athens though is it? 

The issue is the lack of Easterlies. If wr get those, the UK would be much colder than Greece could get.

 

[shotski]

2 minutes ago, northwestsnow said:

While you are correct about the location of the UK as someone who is in their mid 40s i saw loads of snow in the late 70s and pretty much all the way through the 80s , our geographical location didnt seem to stop the cold spells then...

Rose tinted glasses maybe ? You tend to remember memorable events and forget the naff winters. That's certainly true in my case. 

[KDME]

2016/17 - The winter with many a garden paths 

[shotski]

3 minutes ago, I remember Atlantic 252 said:

Slightly different though as Greenie is further north than Iceland

But compare it with somewhere part of a landmass on a similar latitude like Murmansk for example. That's the point I was trying to make :-)

[snowblizzard]

1 minute ago, shotski said:

Rose tinted glasses maybe ? You tend to remember memorable events and forget the naff winters. That's certainly true in my case. 

True, I remember being disappointed on so many occasions when we didn't see any snow during winters in 70's 80's & 90's

[snowblizzard]

6 minutes ago, Weather_Novice said:

2016/17 - The winter with many a garden paths 

Probably all leading to a freezing cold Spring!

[shotski]

21 minutes ago, mountain shadow said:

Paris is not Athens though is it? 

The issue is the lack of Easterlies. If wr get those, the UK would be much colder than Greece could get.

 

Depends what part of Greece your referring to ? 

The historical records probably wouldn't back you up. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by shotski

[markyo]

27 minutes ago, northwestsnow said:

We will see.Im losing hope already, and i dont even give any credence to anymore gfs virtual cold spells at t200 hours..

Its a mirage..

Don't get to downbeat,our climate is the most fickle probably of any country on the planet,things can change and change quickly. Just try and enjoy the lack of crap off the Atlantic. Frosty clear mornings are really something to take advantage of. For me it beats waking up to 20c plus heat and hay fever any day!!

[mountain shadow]

19 minutes ago, shotski said:

Depends what part of Greece your referring to ? 

The historical records probably wouldn't back you up. 

Southern Greece/Athens.

Mountainous Northern Greece is a different beast all together.

[shotski]

Would agree with you there, Athens is surrounded by water like us but at a much lower latitude. 

Im sure your previous post said Greece ? 

[Norrona2015]

39 minutes ago, I remember Atlantic 252 said:

probably not in your location, I'm always confident of snow in Aberdeen, Mark, I'd never think summer over on July 2, as we are guaranteed summery weather, especially in Aug and Sep

Aberdeen does more poorly for snow in recent times than my location - 25 miles west.

From memory and bearing in mind I'm away abroad for parts of winter snowboarding

2016/17 2 days of lying snow so far

2015/16 I didn't see any lying snow but I believe there was 2nd or 3rd week January

2014/15 Nothing 

2013/14 Nothing

2012/13 1 day after a bad storm brought power cuts

2011/12 Nothing

Before that the only notable winters I remember since I moved here were

2004- close on 2 1/2 feet of drifting snow to the north of the house

2009/10 - Hell, theres no other word for it. Snowed on and off from October until early May( 1st week May2 foot drifts outside the house, ploughs still being used). Snow was on the ground from Nov-March. The paddock was inaccessible, 100cm+. Maximum daytime temperatures never got above -15c during Dec for 3 days at night it was much colder. January 2010, -25c displayed on car temp indicator - Aberdeen was at -19c so plausible.  Seriously I could write a book about winter 2009/2010 up here.

2010/11  Decent winter but nothing approaching 2009/10

 

 

[Gustywind]

Not sure about some of your dates Norrona, have you merged December 10 in with the winter 09/10? Surely those Dec temp records must be for Dec 10, not Dec 09?

What about end of March 13, didn't you get snow during that period?

[I remember Atlantic 252]

not liking 06Z. zonality returns around 9th Jan, snow in Scotland, wet average south

[Norrona2015]

7 minutes ago, Gustywind said:

Not sure about some of your dates Norrona, have you merged December 10 in with the winter 09/10? Surely those Dec temp records must be for Dec 10, not Dec 09?

What about end of March 13, didn't you get snow during that period?

Getting old so muddled up dates is possible, as is self soiling.

09/10 was when the local bridge filled with water either side, froze, and twisted away from the banks so it must have been spectacularly cold for that to happen:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-10738174

Early Jan 2010 I was taking the car into Aberdeen to get looked at...again. I took a picture of the dash that showed -25c to let the service manager see just how cold it was. I'm pretty sure December 2009 was the period the temperatures plummeted for 3 days. The local plumber took to phoning customers urging them not to turn the central heating off. He's never done that prior or before in the 13 years I've lived here.

It did snow during March 2013 as I remember test driving a Defender in truly horrendous driving conditions. But as March isn't a traditional winter month I didn't include it.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Norrona2015

[snowray]

2 hours ago, mountain shadow said:

We are seperated to that landmass by only 22 miles.

The issue is around the Greenland area where it is virtually impossible to get decent height rises. 

The pattern always pushes East as we near T+0, sending the cold to Greece.

That is half the meteorological Winter gone without a snow flake for most in this front loaded Winter.

Exactly, the blocks set up but in all the wrong places. I was born in February and was told by various people that it was always very cold with ice and some snow about around the time of my birthday, I mean I knew about 1962/63 but every year, cold? 

So anyway I looked right through the historic charts for February 1960-1970 and found that every single year apart from one (which looked a bit like recent UK winters think it may have been 1961) had some sort of Northern blocking for the UK turn up at some point in February, and lots of Greenland highs. Maybe I will get round to posting the charts sometime. It just seems that something changed after 1970 when blocking starts to turn up more and more to our South and over Europe generally and Winters in the UK and Western Europe generally become more zonal.

[stainesbloke]

1 hour ago, northwestsnow said:

While you are correct about the location of the UK as someone who is in their mid 40s i saw loads of snow in the late 70s and pretty much all the way through the 80s , our geographical location didnt seem to stop the cold spells then...

I'm the same age as you and whilst we had some decent snowfalls in four 80's winters, most were only week-long cold spells if that and the rest of those winters were nothing memorable. We are likely just going through a cycle of milder winters unfortunately (barring 2010 of course). Frustrating but that's the UK for you, summer or winter often things don't go well

[snowray]

1 hour ago, snowblizzard said:

Yes, cold spells that probably only lasted 3-5 days

But, not sustained cold winters.

I would be happy with a 3-5 day cold spell with a few Wintry showers around, even a little settling snow, but we are not even getting one of these cold snaps, and I don't just mean a frost, in 3/4 years now. 

[The Wolf]

The way it is going game over winter. Always 10 days away and then watered down to nothing. Greece buried in snow by the end of the week and we get drab nothingness. Dire stuff.

 

[cyclonic happiness]

1 hour ago, snowray said:

I would be happy with a 3-5 day cold spell with a few Wintry showers around, even a little settling snow, but we are not even getting one of these cold snaps, and I don't just mean a frost, in 3/4 years now. 

I'd be happy with a toppler, which snowed and stuck for 24 hours.

Has anyone noticed too that it barely ever snows during the daytime nowadays?

 

[John88B]

3 hours ago, shotski said:

Rose tinted glasses maybe ? You tend to remember memorable events and forget the naff winters. That's certainly true in my case. 

Very true. It's like any memories in life, we remember the big events and great times but we forget the mundane times which make up a huge proportion of life. The vast majority of British weather, like life in general, is mundane so easily forgotten whereas the great storms, snowfalls, heatwaves etc stand out in our memories because they were stand out events and they happened rarely.

Rest assured, throughout our lifetimes, we will continue to get plenty more big snowfalls, big freezes, heatwaves etc when the conditions are right but they will never be really common events because they never were!

Edited January 2, 2017 by John88B

[Fat Bloke]

Had more frosts than last year here  if it helps but you all know come easter will be cold with snow showers etc as per normal and will kill off my marigold tree as usual each year.

[Iceaxecrampon]

15 hours ago, Snowstalker said:

This will be our 4th snowless winter in the far south east Kent.  

My now 5 year old daughter hasnt even seen any snow yet!

The situation is beyond dire. How about Cumbria at Half term?

If we go another winter with no snow my next holiday will be to somewhere that has snow cover just so i can get a snow fix....

 

 

How about Cumbria at Half term?

[V for Very Cold]

Back from a walk in the country..... nice to see the ground firming up.... few more frosts and we'll be ready for snow.... yeah right! Lol

[AderynCoch]

5 hours ago, cheese said:

And those 22 miles make a big difference. It means Paris is colder than London in winter despite being 200 or so miles further south. 

And in any case, 22 miles is the distance between the very narrowest point of the channel between Dover and Calais. If all of the UK's south or east coast was just 22 miles from the continent it might make more of a difference. It's the same in summer - normal for heatwaves to miss the UK while affecting Benelux and northern France.

For a weather forum, people on here seem to have a poor understanding of weather/climate.

Paris is colder than London in winter mainly because it's further away from the sea. Brest is on the European mainland but has warmer winters than London because it's right on the Breton coast sticking out into the Atlantic. As well as Britain being an island, nowhere here is very far from the sea.

Heatwaves which affect Benelux but miss the UK occur due to the weather pattern setting up too far east, not because the heat swerves the sea. It's just a slightly more eastward variation on the incredibly frustrating SE vs Rest scenario (the worst summer setup in my eyes).

I'm sure everyone here (well, most of us at least) understands that continentality is an important factor when it comes to climate, but mountain shadow is right. We're not getting the rub of the green with the synoptics. Having said that I think back to last "winter" and remember that things could be a lot worse right now.

Edited January 2, 2017 by AderynCoch

[Dancerwithwings]

16 hours ago, Snowstalker said:

This will be our 4th snowless winter in the far south east Kent.  

My now 5 year old daughter hasnt even seen any snow yet!

The situation is beyond dire.

If we go another winter with no snow my next holiday will be to somewhere that has snow cover just so i can get a snow fix....

March 2013 for me, but mine was only a toddler....A spot of sledging was out of the question a that age, so she's awaiting her first remembered snowfall like yours... I must mention the days of waiting for the first flake to fall for us was just great (still is) today kids are to preoccupied with their phones/devices/gaming and all that to be bothered....how times have changed 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by Dancerwithwings