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Winter 2016/2017: Preliminary Prediction


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Posted
  • Location: Alston, Cumbria
  • Weather Preferences: Proper Seasons,lots of frost and snow October to April, hot summers!
  • Location: Alston, Cumbria

As promised I have piece together macroscale developments of sea-surface temperature and regional wind/pressure anomalies to provide a preliminary forecast for the coming winter.During October the global winds, pressure and temperature-patterns across the Northern Hemisphere gravitate towards their winter states, which they will tend to retain until late March.

First thing though we need to list what we know so far:

1) Sea surface temperatures are, in general well above normal across the North Atlantic with anomalies close to 4C for early October in the European Arctic section with anomalies of +6C off the eastern coast of the USA and in the Baltic. The section is part of the mid-North Atlantic about 45 to 55N and 20 to 40W where sea surface temperatures are up to 2C colder than usual. Such warmer than usual waters around the UK would directly warm any winds blowing over them more and would tend to support milder weather and more evaporation from the warmer seas would support increased rainfall. The cool patch in the North Atlantic is sufficiently far west for it to cause the southern part of the strong upper Westerlies to re-curve south over it and just to the east whilst the upper air would be encouraged to "re-curve" northwards having crossed the warmer waters around Britain: This would place an upper trough near to the UK and enhance wet, windy weather.  

2) The North Pacific north of 20N is substantially warmer than normal with sea surface temperature anomalies generally 3 to 4C warmer than normal for early October. However the Equatorial central and eastern Pacific is colder than usual with anomalies up to 2C below normal. The development of La Nina with cool equatorial waters would promote weaker north-easterly Trade Winds over the Pacific between the Equator and a weaker subtropical high-pressure belt centred over warmer than usual waters of the North Pacific around 30 to 35N: Weaker NE Trade Winds impart less westerly atmospheric angular momentum (AAM) to the Northern Hemisphere's atmospheric circulation through frictional interaction with the sea-surface- particularly as less wind means a calmer sea-surface with very low coefficient of friction. There is correspondingly need for less of a sink for accumulated westerly momentum in higher latitudes which implies weaker westerlies reaching Britain with a correspondingly higher chance of cold-air outbreaks from Russia or the Arctic. 

3) Arctic sea-ice extent has recovered remarkably during September and it's extent is close to the seasonal norm east of Greenland but the sea-ice extent remains some 500 km north of its normal October extent north of Alaska and the extreme east of Siberia. Open waters in the Arctic Ocean surrounding the sea-ice remains substantially (i.e. widely up to 4C warmer than normal for October however): This is likely to encourage the Circumpolar Vortex to be contracted as well as displaced towards the UK by up to 200 km, however the warmth of Arctic seas would encourage the strong baroclinic gradients to be shifted towards the Arctic. This lends support to deeper depressions encircling the Arctic close to 70N, particularly in the North Atlantic sector and the warmth of the oceans just to the south of them means rather more moisture latent-heat potential to fuel these storms. The northwards displacement of the Westerlies is likely to encourage them to be strong in any case because they have to blow harder closer to the axis of the Earth's rotation to offset the tropical, subtropical and polar easterlies as required by Conservation of Angular Momentum laws.

4) Also supportive of a mild wet and windy winter is the fact that the Quasi Biennial Oscillation (QBO) at 30mb high above the Equator remains in Westerly phase. During August these stratospheric Equatorial Winds averaged just over 10 metres per second (23 mph) from the west. These stratospheric winds feed down into the general circulation and reach the mid-latitude jet-streams and Westerlies over three or four months. This suggests (strongly) that the coming winter will be mild wet and stormy.

5) The Sun is now entering the quiet phase towards the end of Schwabe cycle 24: Indications are that the Sun is indeed going quieter than it has been for a few years. An active Sun produces Solar Flares which interact with the atmospheric circulation to increase the strength of the Circumpolar Vortex. Instead few (if any) magnetic storms from the Sun will be interacting with the Earth's atmosphere and instead (if anything) that just leaves tidal friction due to the Sun and Moon which affects the atmosphere as well as the oceans. The tidal effects on the atmosphere are very weak but these act to reduce the Earth's rotation by very mall amounts (these are significant over time, which is why Leap Seconds are added at the end of each year). The net effect of all this (weak phase of Solar Cycle, atmospheric tidal friction) would be to weaken the Westerlies a little.

6) At least until mid November, the fact that sea-surface temperatures in the tropical Atlantic and Pacific just north of the Equator is likely to enhance tropical storm activity. More hurricanes and typhoons with strong easterlies on their northern flanks that enter the Northern Hemisphere circulation add Westerly AAM to the global atmospheric circulation. This increases the need for stronger Westerlies in higher latitudes to counter-balance them: This strongly hints to late autumn/early winter being wet, mild and stormy. However, from late January onwards the Intertropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) will be south of the Equator and the fact that sea-surface temperatures in tropical waters just south of the Equator are also warmer than normal now suggests more tropical storms will occur there; Southern Hemisphere tropical depressions (sliding westwards along the ITCZ) have strong westerlies on their northern flank and it is these that will affect the Angular Momentum Budget of the Northern Hemisphere circulation by removing Westerly AAM through frictional impact with the underlying surface: This points to weaker Westerlies coming across the North Atlantic in January/February which would, other things being equal, increase the chances of much colder, drier spells reaching Britain from the east.  

We can now put all this together to get some sort of prediction for Winter 2016/17:

(Continued below)

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Posted
  • Location: Highland Scotland
  • Location: Highland Scotland

Well winter 2014 was milder than the poor winter of 2012 in the Scottish mountains. No lift served Snowsports the whole of March in 2012, unprecedented since commercial operations begun. Yet 2 years on an even milder winter delivered the most snow to Western mountains in living memory. A re-run of 2014 I'd take (going to get lynched by most for saying that probably)!  

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Posted
  • Location: Tullynessle/Westhill
  • Weather Preferences: Cold and snowy or warm and dry
  • Location: Tullynessle/Westhill
38 minutes ago, skifreak said:

Well winter 2014 was milder than the poor winter of 2012 in the Scottish mountains. No lift served Snowsports the whole of March in 2012, unprecedented since commercial operations begun. Yet 2 years on an even milder winter delivered the most snow to Western mountains in living memory. A re-run of 2014 I'd take (going to get lynched by most for saying that probably)!  

Not by me. Although that winter was relentlessly wet even on the East coast of Scotland, which normally benefits from the 'rain shadow', I've never seen snow depths so deep at Glenshee. The problem then of course was getting there when it wasn't blowing a hoolie.

Ian, thanks for the forecast, even if personally I hope it's wrong I do appreciate the effort it must have taken to compile.

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Posted
  • Location: Alston, Cumbria
  • Weather Preferences: Proper Seasons,lots of frost and snow October to April, hot summers!
  • Location: Alston, Cumbria

Gavin's latest update for the Winter going for a milder than normal season again this year. Interesting that he makes reference to the weak La Nina, the Westerly phase of the QBO and sea-surface temperatures being above normal in the North Pacific. The position of the "Cold Blob" in the North Atlantic being supportive of a mild wet winter because it locks the Polar Front Jetstream into a pattern that sweeps deep depressions to the north of Britain is also interesting. 

These factors, along with likely Sunspot activity (which Gavin also covered), are the ones to look at in making a long -range seasonal forecast at this time of year. You can watch Gavin's prediction for the coming Winter here :

 

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Posted
  • Location: Shoeburyness, SE Essex
  • Weather Preferences: Cool clear sunny weather all year.
  • Location: Shoeburyness, SE Essex

Thanks for your time in this expansive forecast.

Always a pleasure to read.

Can you tell me against yours and Gavin's ideas, why the MO are hinting at what appears to be quite consistently pointing towards high pressure to the north and lower pressure to the south.

Its a constructive question, does the EC 42/ Glosc see some thing we/you don't or is it just numbers which are likely to change.

To be fair they have been pretty good in recent times.

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Posted
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
On 10/10/2016 at 08:20, seaside 60 said:

Thanks for your time in this expansive forecast.

Always a pleasure to read.

Can you tell me against yours and Gavin's ideas, why the MO are hinting at what appears to be quite consistently pointing towards high pressure to the north and lower pressure to the south.

Its a constructive question, does the EC 42/ Glosc see some thing we/you don't or is it just numbers which are likely to change.

To be fair they have been pretty good in recent times.

From what I read from posters who access to those long range models, the ECM seasonal goes for high pressure to the north and low to the south as you say but the latest Glosea update has gone back to a mild winter. The November update will be crucial. 

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Posted
  • Location: Kensington
  • Location: Kensington
16 minutes ago, karyo said:

From what I read from posters who access to those long range models, the ECM seasonal goes for high pressure to the north and low to the south as you say but the latest Glosea update has gone back to a mild winter. The November update will be crucial. 

It all depends what you mean by Mild Karyo,  The Glosea is a watered down version of the September update which mainly goes for average conditions across the Uk,  However far to early to call  what the seasonal outlook well be, never mind trying to put temperature values and rainfall amounts  on each month

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Posted
  • Location: Cheddington, Buckinghamshire
  • Weather Preferences: Winter: Cold & Snowy, Summer: Just not hot
  • Location: Cheddington, Buckinghamshire
23 minutes ago, karyo said:

From what I read from posters who access to those long range models, the ECM seasonal goes for high pressure to the north and low to the south as you say but the latest Glosea update has gone back to a mild winter. The November update will be crucial. 

Wouldn't say it's crucial, doesn't really have any bearing on what's actually going to happen and may well be completely wrong.

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Posted
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
1 hour ago, Nick L said:

Wouldn't say it's crucial, doesn't really have any bearing on what's actually going to happen and may well be completely wrong.

As it is the last update before winter starts it is crucial. 

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Posted
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
1 hour ago, weirpig said:

It all depends what you mean by Mild Karyo,  The Glosea is a watered down version of the September update which mainly goes for average conditions across the Uk,  However far to early to call  what the seasonal outlook well be, never mind trying to put temperature values and rainfall amounts  on each month

Ian F said it was going for above average temperatures (albeit slightly) so that's in the mild category. Still better than last winter of course.

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Posted
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
  • Weather Preferences: Thunder, snow, heat, sunshine...
  • Location: Beccles, Suffolk.
17 minutes ago, karyo said:

As it is the last update before winter starts it is crucial. 

Crucial to what, karyo?

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Posted
  • Location: Peterborough
  • Weather Preferences: Hot summers /snowy winters
  • Location: Peterborough
37 minutes ago, karyo said:

Ian F said it was going for above average temperatures (albeit slightly) so that's in the mild category. Still better than last winter of course.

Could you post the link to where Ian has said it is going for above average temps please . I can not find anything on netweather or twitter. Cheers Darren

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Posted
  • Location: Cheddington, Buckinghamshire
  • Weather Preferences: Winter: Cold & Snowy, Summer: Just not hot
  • Location: Cheddington, Buckinghamshire
43 minutes ago, karyo said:

As it is the last update before winter starts it is crucial. 

But why? For forecasting purposes perhaps but it will have absolutely no bearing on the winter itself.

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Posted
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
7 minutes ago, Nick L said:

But why? For forecasting purposes perhaps but it will have absolutely no bearing on the winter itself.

It won't affect the winter outcome of course but it has done pretty well in recent years. 

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Posted
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
17 minutes ago, feno13 said:

Could you post the link to where Ian has said it is going for above average temps please . I can not find anything on netweather or twitter. Cheers Darren

ENSO thread p 34: 

 

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Posted
  • Location: Horsham, West sussex, 52m asl
  • Location: Horsham, West sussex, 52m asl
1 hour ago, karyo said:

Ian F said it was going for above average temperatures (albeit slightly) so that's in the mild category. Still better than last winter of course.

No he didn't, to quote Ian-

"Ah, but still looks a pretty interesting winter period, for various reasons. Some key differences versus EC, but still quite distinct from the output we were looking at this time last year, for winter 15-16!

November is always the more critical point when we expect (hope!) to see closer consensus between these models. Still a way to go before it's worthwhile hanging hat on any particular broad outcome for this winter."

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Posted
  • Location: Newton Poppleford, Devon, UK
  • Weather Preferences: Snow, Thunderstorms, High Winds.
  • Location: Newton Poppleford, Devon, UK

I just think it will snow at least once this Winter here.

Edited by Grimers
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Posted
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
  • Location: Brighton (currently)

Bobbydog, if you see at the comment he made before the one you quoted you will see that the Glosea doesn't agree with the ECM sadly. Fingers crossed for a better November update.

By the way, thanks for posting his second quote which also confirms that November is the critical (I said crucial) point! Somebody nobody questioned him when he used that word :-)

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Posted
  • Location: Surrey and SW France.
  • Location: Surrey and SW France.
26 minutes ago, karyo said:

Bobbydog, if you see at the comment he made before the one you quoted you will see that the Glosea doesn't agree with the ECM sadly. Fingers crossed for a better November update.

By the way, thanks for posting his second quote which also confirms that November is the critical (I said crucial) point! Somebody nobody questioned him when he used that word :-)

I would not get too hung up on what the seasonal models are showing at this stage of Autumn. Mr Fergusson mentions three models - the three that were used in the winter '15/'16 forecast - how did they perform for last winter from the early November run?

GloSea5, ECMWF and Met France monthly mean sea level pressure for December, January and February. Below, the reanalysis for each of the months.

14bfe62619bc4143f017f3c79948a635.png

73003532248b15ce16bb55ed338af35c.png97c4e4a30da0f907c3c4f7969c4c94d1.pngaf2b8637288e8f6f27bf4573eac64033.png

As you can see, there were months/models well off the mark with their November runs. Because the models run regularly throughout winter, we get updates and these tend to skew perceptions that the early forecast was better than it actually was.

 

 

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Posted
  • Location: Brighton (currently)
  • Location: Brighton (currently)

From the above I can see that Meteo France was way off the mark but Glosea and ECM did reasonably well.

That's what I see. I am not expecting any model to get it spot one but that two did well.

 

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Posted
  • Location: Near Romford Essex.
  • Location: Near Romford Essex.
2 hours ago, karyo said:

Bobbydog, if you see at the comment he made before the one you quoted you will see that the Glosea doesn't agree with the ECM sadly. Fingers crossed for a better November update.

By the way, thanks for posting his second quote which also confirms that November is the critical (I said crucial) point! Somebody nobody questioned him when he used that word :-)

How so true Karyo!

Anyway, it must be obvious that a winter update issued in November, 'should' be nearer the mark, than one released a month or two earlier?

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Posted
  • Location: Horsham, West sussex, 52m asl
  • Location: Horsham, West sussex, 52m asl
5 hours ago, karyo said:

Bobbydog, if you see at the comment he made before the one you quoted you will see that the Glosea doesn't agree with the ECM sadly. Fingers crossed for a better November update.

By the way, thanks for posting his second quote which also confirms that November is the critical (I said crucial) point! Somebody nobody questioned him when he used that word :-)

Karyo. Here is the comment he made before-

"GloSea5 was out today. Quite a different take on things... "

That does not say it will be a mild winter. It leads nicely on to the comment I quoted, ie "key differences versus the EC".

The EC said negative NAO all winter. Glosea differs. How? We don't actually know. At this stage neither is right yet. As he pointed out.

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