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http://www.euronews.com/2017/04/25/us-insurer-fm-global-picks-luxembourg-as-eu-hub-amid-brexit-concerns

U.S. insurer FM Global picks Luxembourg as EU hub amid Brexit concerns

U.S. commercial property insurer FM Global is planning a European hub in Luxembourg following Britain’s decision to leave the bloc...

 

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38 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Dave...

Ok I thought that you liked the post, because of it consequences.

Again in your response you refer to  terms totally 'dictated  by the UK'..

I do not think this represents the views of what many leavers think.

I posted in this thread above. In the Art 50 document, May spoke  about 'the best for both the UK and the EU'.  How do you interpret that to be the terms dictated by the UK? To me it indicates that a period of negotiation is being requested.

The outcome is still to be determined.

 No leaver expects the UK to be able to have all that is being requested.

Your final two paragraphs indicate that you think that most countries will be pleased to get rid of the UK. Just wait until Germany refuses to make up the shortfall and then you will see quite a change in their positions.   

Many of the remainers on here expect that the EU will attempt to intimidate May and that she will come home with a crap deal, (Nearly said with her tail between her long legs!:sorry:).                  This will not happen.

She will not be able to do that. That is what DC did. She knows that the public and more than likely the parliament)  will not accept that sort of deal 

I am afraid that with her large majority and having been handed her mandate by Labour, she will just walk away..

Clearly ;the EU will play hardball in order to get the best deal possible for the EU.  But that should mean that they do NOT  enter into discussions with a position that both sides can eventually agree to..  

You all seem to be happy about this,  and yet it will end up with worse terms for the UK, than if the EU are realistic about the situation, and attempt to meet at least some of the UK's demands.

It will not mean that much for the EU, but will indicate to the rest of the world that they can be flexible, and we could help to prepare a better trade future for the world.. The story about other countries wanting the same deal is a pie in the sky argument..

We are the second largest provider for the EU (behind Germany). They will be mad to totally ignore our requests. OK some are difficult others will possibly be more difficult, but nothing should be impossible with good will on both sides..

You guys are virtually all anti-UK and want to cheer the EU on.   Mike has admitted many times that this true, He cares more about a federal EU than he does about the UK.  I do not share that view.

His position will end up with the UK having the worst of all results. I am not blaming him but that is the effect of what will happen now that May has a mandate. That is the change that May's decision has made. I can see that Mike does not like it. But his one scenario of remaining in the EU has  now being taken away from him.

MIA

Oh dear MIA you do get confused - for us remainers it is not a case of choosing the UK or the EU - it is a case of choosing both with the UK remaining within.

As far as federalisation goes from where I am looking the average Brit will get more freedom, more prosperity and more justice under an EU federal state than what he would get in the UK which is heading increasingly in the direction of a one party state which is not a healthy state for democracy.

The arrogance of your remarks,

'The outcome is still to be determined.

No leaver expects the UK to be able to have all that is being requested.

Your final two paragraphs indicate that you think that most countries will be pleased to get rid of the UK. Just wait until Germany refuses to make up the shortfall and then you will see quite a change in their positions.   

Many of the remainers on here expect that the EU will attempt to intimidate May and that she will come home with a crap deal, (Nearly said with her tail between her long legs!).                  This will not happen.

She will not be able to do that. That is what DC did. She knows that the public and more than likely the parliament)  will not accept that sort of deal'

is overwhelming - you clearly do not understand the raison d'etre behind the EU and when push comes to shove they are likely to say adieu, adios,  auf wiedersehen, adéu, addio, do widzenia, viszontlátásra, farvel, slán, ahoj, adjö, mar sin leat ( yes likely those as well) amongst others.

For your further study I attach the below link and you talk about changing history - it's more like a reversal back to the 'dark ages'.

This brave experiment is still working and it need our support, not trying to grab all we can out of it. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

Edited by mike Meehan

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3 hours ago, kar999 said:

Britain has chosen to walk away from the EU and therefore forfeits financial passporting rights under the EU rules that govern those rights.

Simple really.

 

Indeed

Why on earth are the opposition parties letting all this go under the radar? Why aren't Corbyn and Farron shouting out the fact that May is about to give away the main reason why the City of London is so successful? Though of course it doesn't matter as we have so many other income sources in this country.... oh, oops!

Edited by Man With Beard

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3 hours ago, mike Meehan said:

No doubt at some time in future it will come back to bite them in the posterior - eventually the people will catch on and they are not likely to be very forgiving.

Mike..

I thought you were one of the people claiming May was chicken. Seems like you have just destroyed that argument.

MIA

2 hours ago, nick sussex said:

So if France was leaving you'd be against London trying to get a bit of extra business. And I still don't understand why you keep suggesting that you might want to stay in the EU under different conditions.

You keep moaning about the EU and its apparent real feelings towards the UK, given the UK is leaving don't you think some in the EU might be questioning the real feelings of the UK towards it.

Solidarity, unity, 40 years of co-operation all down the toilet so the EU won't be lectured to on this matter. There was real sadness in Brussels at the UK leaving,  when the going got a little tough the UK didn't want to know.

 

 

France is trying to take advantage and wants to put a red line in to ensure that  the UK has a hardexit.

I do happen to believe that the UK would not do this, if the situation was reversed. They are trying to influence the position of a democratic decision in another country. They did not need to put a red line into the discussions.. Only Blair is allowed to do that sort of thing!,

France will get nothing of the CITY businesses,  as it does not have the services required and it is not trusted by the rest of the world in terms of taxation and business support..

MIA

 Edit...Not sure what happened above I seem to have got a previous reply tied up with the latest one.

Edited by Midlands Ice Age

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5 minutes ago, mike Meehan said:

Oh dear MIA you do get confused - for us remainers it is not a case of choosing the UK or the EU - it is a case of choosing both with the UK remaining within.

As far as federalisation goes from where I am looking the average Brit will get more freedom, more prosperity and more justice under an EU federal state than what he would get in the UK which is heading increasingly in the direction of a one party state which is not a healthy state for democracy.

The arrogance of your remark, '

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

Mike..

The problem is Mike that what you want from the talks is not  what most remainers  want.

You confuse your desires with those of most of the remainers in the referendum. They have flown the nest now, They are urging May to get on with it! 

You will find that you have been cuckolded very shortly.

MIA

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nestle-cut-300-jobs-workforce-blue-riband-production-poland-eu-brexit-a7701206.html

Nestlé set to cut 300 UK jobs and move production of Blue Riband bars to Poland

Nestlé announced proposals to move production of the iconic Blue Riband chocolate bar from the UK to Poland resulting in around 300 job losses, following increasing import costs and uncertainty over how the Government will handle Brexit.

 

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3 hours ago, mike Meehan said:

Further biased opinions unsupported by facts.

There were no facts in my post apart from those of the French  putting a red card into the discussions.

Your seem to be suggesting that It is a totally unnecessary thing for them to do? It is definitely taking us further away from staying in the EU.

Is that really what you want?

That is  the most probable outcome, now

MIA

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23 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Mike..

I thought you were one of the people claiming May was chicken. Seems like you have just destroyed that argument.

MIA

France is trying to take advantage and wants to put a red line in to ensure that  the UK has a hardexit.

I do happen to believe that the UK would not do this, if the situation was reversed. They are trying to influence the position of a democratic decision in another country. They did not need to put a red line into the discussions.. Only Blair is allowed to do that sort of thing!,

France will get nothing of the CITY businesses,  as it does not have the services required and it is not trusted by the rest of the world in terms of taxation and business support..

MIA

 Edit...Not sure what happened above I seem to have got a previous reply tied up with the latest one.

Well to be honest MIA it does not have to be a Brexit at all - it all depends on whether Mrs May is prepared to her own people and country down the swannee for the sake of her own personal power and prestige together with that of her cronies.

From the different news items coming in all the time it strikes me that that would be a pretty poor choice.

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37 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

I posted in this thread above. In the Art 50 document, May spoke  about 'the best for both the UK and the EU'.  How do you interpret that to be the terms dictated by the UK? To me it indicates that a period of negotiation is being requested

Hello MIA,

How can you believe anything this woman says?

Prior to the Referendum she spoke before financiers and is recorded as saying to leave the EU would be an absolute disaster. In order to further her own career she was willing to swallow her convictions in favour of self promotion.

I find it incredible that you consider the EU is at fault for attempting to protect their citizen's best interests, if only our Government would do the same instead of following the demands of a noisy but currently fairly small faction to the right of the party. My concern with the inevitable projected landslide victory more of the right will be elected. People when voting for all parties rarely look at each individual's credentials and if they are extreme left in the Labour Party or extreme right in the Conservative party. All they do when they arrive at the Polling station is put a cross against the name attached to a political party

Kind Regards

Dave

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23 minutes ago, mike Meehan said:

 

As far as federalisation goes from where I am looking the average Brit will get more freedom, more prosperity and more justice under an EU federal state than what he would get in the UK which is heading increasingly in the direction of a one party state which is not a healthy state for democracy.

The arrogance of your remark, '

 

 

Mike....

I think that we all know that that is what you are desperately want.

By far the vast majority of the public do not share your desires and  want this to happen!

As you say above  'the arrogance of your remark'.  The referendum nailed this. You lost it, by not convincing the required number of people.

Still you accuse other people (me)of being arrogant!

Wow...

 

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20 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Mike..

The problem is Mike that what you want from the talks is not  what most remainers  want.

You confuse your desires with those of most of the remainers in the referendum. They have flown the nest now, They are urging May to get on with it! 

You will find that you have been cuckolded very shortly.

MIA

You're a fine one to talk about being cuckolded - in any case how do you know what the remainers want - apart from these off the cuff remarks you are not showing any evidence of where you get your opinions, except for being naturally biased against the EU.

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3 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Mike....

I think that we all know that that is what you are desperately want.

By far the vast majority of the public do not share your desires and  want this to happen!

As you say above  'the arrogance of your remark'.  The referendum nailed this. You lost it, by not convincing the required number of people.

Still you accuse other people (me)of being arrogant!

Wow...

 

You appear to have given plenty of evidence of this so far and again, how do you know what the vast majority of the public want?

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MIA you seem to be manufacturing a lot of drama that the EU is going to try and shaft the UK.

I don't see that happening and really its going to be a fair deal for both sides which respects the reality of the situation. Any deal though will not be as beneficial as the UK's current trade relationship because May has delivered red lines which means its impossible to have those same benefits.

Its May who has said no further contributions , no freedom of movement , no ECJ jurisdiction, no customs union.

Much is made that other countries have FTA"s with the EU with no FOM however free trade deals are not completely free of tariffs and often have non-tariff barriers, and they generally are still restrictive on services.

Instead of berating the EU why not turn some of that onto May who has chosen this course, in a desperate attempt to appease her backbenchers and look like a tough negotiator she has taken options off the table.

I very much hope that both sides can come to a  deal, I'm not here cheering for failure to prove some point, I certainly don't want the UK to be punished or suffer. You should stop suggesting that Remainers are being anti the UK, however we have to be realistic as to what the outcome might be.

I'm confident there will be a deal and it might be a good one if May can make some compromises and if she does I'm sure the EU will reciprocate.

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

 

France will get nothing of the CITY businesses,  as it does not have the services required and it is not trusted by the rest of the world in terms of taxation and business support..

Utter tosh

I'm not sure what part of the UK losing passporting rights people don't understand. It's an EU privilege that is not ours to keep.

Financial passporting by the UK has been given away when we opted to leave the EU. It's up for grabs by Paris, Frankfurt or Dublin as they will be in EU and we won't. Simple really. 

It's not about who's got the best services. The EU rules clearly state we can't play anymore. It's their ball not ours. 

It really is that simple. No license. Game over, early bath.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Man With Beard said:

Indeed

Why on earth are the opposition parties letting all this go under the radar? Why aren't Corbyn and Farron shouting out the fact that May is about to give away the main reason why the City of London is so successful? Though of course it doesn't matter as we have so many other income sources in this country.... oh, oops!

You're not supposed to talk about the rich overseas accounts - we are still trying to pretend they don't exist just in case that wicked EU gets their hands on them.

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I haven't posted in this particular thread for quite a while but have been reading the familiar exchanges that have been present for months now . My views have not changed and I don't really have anything new to add in terms of opinion I still strongly believe we will be better off out over the years ahead after the initial problems it will bring economically . I've said it already as the usual posters know and it's not worth getting back in to the hamster wheel . @Mia you are preaching to the converted and vice Versa. I can come back in here in May and it will be the same  . I am not knocking anyone here I'm talking about the general trend of this thread going round in circles because of strong beliefs which is great .

Anyway the real reason for popping in was to post this article .

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-trade-deal-uk-no-eu-needed-think-tank-claims-a7701966.html?amp

Mark

Edited by Mark wheeler

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Thanks for the post Mark. Some interesting positive remarks until you get the Financial Services section towards the end of the article.

 

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Although Canary specialised in blowing the lid off things I cannot think that this is not without foundation and for my part I have had quite enough of the government having the audacity and the arrogance to treat us like mugs in an effort to achieve their end game.

It is not democracy - it is government via stealth.

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/04/23/investigation-gone-live-could-wreck-tory-election-game-plan/

An investigation has gone live that could wreck the Tories’ election game plan:

A new investigation is looking into Leave.eu, one of the two pro-Brexit campaigns in the 2016 EU referendum. The outcome of this and another investigation into Leave.eu, as well as a separate investigation into Vote Leave, could prove damaging to Prime Minister Theresa May. Because the Conservative Party now entirely defines itself with Brexit. So, consequently, if the Brexit vote is proved fraudulent, the Tory’s 2017 general election campaign will be seriously undermined.

And the timing of this new investigation could not be worse. Because May has also announced she will back Tory MPs under police investigation for alleged election expenses fraud.

Leave.eu investigations

In March, the Electoral Commission agreed to examine alleged undeclared spending by the Leave.eu campaign, one of two that promoted Brexit. This relates to alleged ‘in-kind’ payments to a US data intelligence firm, Cambridge Analytica (CA).

That investigation is now live. A spokesman for the Commission said:

"The Electoral Commission has begun an investigation into Leave.eu’s referendum spending return. This followed an assessment which concluded that there were reasonable grounds to suspect that potential offences under the law may have occurred."

The Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) is also investigating Leave.eu for possible misuse of data.

Vote Leave investigation

Separately, the Electoral Commission is investigating alleged undeclared spending [paywall] by Vote Leave. This was the official pro-Brexit campaign backed by Tory MPs Boris Johnson and Michael Gove.

In the final stage of the EU Referendum campaign, Vote Leave gave £625,000 to BeLeave, a pop-up Brexit group, organised by 23-year-old Darren Grimes.

In a letter dated 14 February 2017, Labour MP Stephen Kinnock claimed that the Vote Leave campaign may have been guilty of spending above the legal limit. Kinnock also said that Vote Leave had close involvement with Grimes.

BeLeave used the money to pay for the services of a Canadian company, AggregateIQ. It is alleged that Vote Leave itself paid a total of £3.5m to AggregateIQ, which was formerly linked to CA’s Canadian division.

Voter manipulation

But these investigations are not just about alleged overspend.

CA’s technology and US consultant Gerry Gunster were the driving force behind Leave.eu’s campaign. Its strategy involved targeting people, drawing from a database of more than a million people that was built by harvesting social media data.

And Leave.eu financier Arron Banks was confident why the Brexit result turned out the way it did:

interesting,since we deployed this technology in leave.eu we got unprecedented levels of engagement. 1 video 13m views. AI won it for leave https://t.co/mlB3TSyrSk

— Arron Banks (@Arron_banks) January 30, 2017

Indeed, Paul Stephenson, the communications director of Vote Leave, stated that both AggregateIQ and its founder Zack Massingham were:

instrumental in helping the Leave campaign win. Together with our digital director, Henry De Zoete, they transformed Vote Leave’s digital offering. And helped us to contact voters over one billion times online.

And on its website, AggregateIQ prominently displays a quote by Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings, an expert on ‘data science’:

The Trump-Farage connection

CA is US-based and specialises in “behavioural change” technologies (like artificial intelligence and psychometrics) that target the emotional triggers of social media users. In short, it’s about persuading people, without their knowledge, to act in a certain way or adopt certain attitudes.

A further clue as to what these technologies mean is provided by CA’s British-based parent company SCL. It offers a similar range of services. These include “behavioural microtargeting‘. It defines that as:

… advanced data analytics, to identify groups of voters who share demographics, political beliefs and lifestyle, and use this insight to create unique messages designed to resonate with them.

Again, very useful for election management.

The puppet masters

Then there’s the matter of who runs and owns these companies.

Billionaire Trump supporter Robert Mercer is reportedly a financial backer of CA. And Mercer is not only Trump’s main financial backer too, but he also funds Breitbart News. And former Breibert Executive Chairman Steve Bannon (a prominent Trump’s confidante) also happens to be a board member of CA.

And it was Mercer who persuaded UKIP’s Nigel Farage that CA would be “useful” to Leave.eu. The head of communications for Leave.eu, Andy Wigmore, said CA “were happy to help”. But Leave.eu has previously denied that CA has “worked in British politics”.

A very Tory ‘coup’

Then the EU referendum result saw the Tory far-right essentially stage a ‘coup’ of their own party.

But should voter manipulation and other allegations against the Brexit campaigns be fully substantiated, inevitably there will be collateral damage. And possibly another ‘coup’, though this time via the ballot box.

Then there is this:

Oh with intent to deceive what a tangled web they weave.

Reason for Election.jpg

Edited by mike Meehan

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-tory-defects-lib-dems-brexit-theresa-may-surrey-councillor-christine-elmer-strategy-a7701106.html

Good on her - we need a few more who put country, conscience and service to public before their own personal ambitions.

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15 hours ago, kar999 said:

 

Utter tosh

I'm not sure what part of the UK losing passporting rights people don't understand. It's an EU privilege that is not ours to keep.

Financial passporting by the UK has been given away when we opted to leave the EU. It's up for grabs by Paris, Frankfurt or Dublin as they will be in EU and we won't. Simple really. 

It's not about who's got the best services. The EU rules clearly state we can't play anymore. It's their ball not ours. 

It really is that simple. No license. Game over, early bath.

 

 

 

 

Kar..

It is not utter tosh...You are simply believing the EU negotiating position.

Think it through..

1) Passeporrting...it was mainly set up to enable a quick start up amongst the EU.to give them rapid access to cash for funding of their world wide trade.....

Most of the fund raising for their imports and exports is carried out through London.

2) I think one bank has said they will move to Paris. They are one of the French National banks.   Paris is not seen as the best place to be for, as I mentioned already,  for services and taxes. No one wants to move there!.

3) A coupe of banks have said they would move their head office - one to Dublin, one ( I think) to Brussels or the Hague. Possibly Morgan Stanley who throughout have been the EU's major supporter .probably they expect a lot of future business!.

3) Most of the world wide banks (excluding HSBC!),seem to think that they have already done enough by setting up branch offices within the EU, to get around passeporting and the sharing of the same laws deal (equivalance), Passeporting has been virtually dead for quite a while now. It was mainly used for allowing a rapid build up of trade in the very early days when the EU wanted rapid access to the world's capital markets.. Equivalence is where most of them are concentrating. 

Most banks expect to have to move only a very few of the City staff.(less than 1000 overall).

I am afraid that I would rather trust the banks, rather than the EU in Brussels at this point in time.  

It also depends upon your perspectives. I happen to think that we will lose some finance trade to Europe. I have seen figures of less than 10%, To me this is acceptable, as I think that we will now be able to forge must greater links with New York, Singapore, Hong Kong, even Zurich, etc. This is where the future is going to be. We will probably be able to double are trade outside of the EU rules!!

This is the crucial point you are missing.

The other issue is how are these transferred banks going to raise all the finance for the EU's  imports and exports. They will not be able to deal directly with the other countries of the world!  ( Passeporting and intransigence (called equivalence) again!!). Unless they give all the other countries access to the same facilities, aka when they will clearly be seen to be punishing the UK.  I do not think that even Brussels will be able to get away with that one!!

So a lot more to it than you are prepared to acknowledge. It is not the cut and dried issue that you guys believe.

MIA

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2 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Kar..

It is not utter tosh...You are simply believing the EU negotiating position.

Think it through..

1) Passeporrting...it was mainly set up to enable a quick start up amongst the EU.to give them rapid access to cash for funding of their world wide trade.....

Most of the fund raising for their imports and exports is carried out through London.

2) I think one bank has said they will move to Paris. They are one of the French National banks.   Paris is not seen as the best place to be for, as I mentioned already,  for services and taxes. No one wants to move there!.

3) A coupe of banks have said they would move their head office - one to Dublin, one ( I think) to Brussels or the Hague. Possibly Morgan Stanley who throughout have been the EU's major supporter .probably they expect a lot of future business!.

3) Most of the world wide banks (excluding HSBC!),seem to think that they have already done enough by setting up branch offices within the EU, to get around passeporting and the sharing of the same laws deal (equivalance), Passeporting has been virtually dead for quite a while now. It was mainly used for allowing a rapid build up of trade in the very early days when the EU wanted rapid access to the world's capital markets.. Equivalence is where most of them are concentrating. 

Most banks expect to have to move only a very few of the City staff.(less than 1000 overall).

I am afraid that I would rather trust the banks, rather than the EU in Brussels at this point in time.  

It also depends upon your perspectives. I happen to think that we will lose some finance trade to Europe. I have seen figures of less than 10%, To me this is acceptable, as I think that we will now be able to forge must greater links with New York, Singapore, Hong Kong, even Zurich, etc. This is where the future is going to be. We will probably be able to double are trade outside of the EU rules!!

This is the crucial point you are missing.

The other issue is how are these transferred banks going to raise all the finance for the EU's  imports and exports. They will not be able to deal directly with the other countries of the world!  ( Passeporting and intransigence (called equivalence) again!!). Unless they give all the other countries access to the same facilities, aka when they will clearly be seen to be punishing the UK.  I do not think that even Brussels will be able to get away with that one!!

So a lot more to it than you are prepared to acknowledge. It is not the cut and dried issue that you guys believe.

MIA

And you are simple making up your own and then wanting everyone-else to believe you?

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16 hours ago, kar999 said:

 

Utter tosh

I'm not sure what part of the UK losing passporting rights people don't understand. It's an EU privilege that is not ours to keep.

Financial passporting by the UK has been given away when we opted to leave the EU. It's up for grabs by Paris, Frankfurt or Dublin as they will be in EU and we won't. Simple really. 

It's not about who's got the best services. The EU rules clearly state we can't play anymore. It's their ball not ours. 

It really is that simple. No license. Game over, early bath.

 

 

 

 

http://www.cityam.com/249639/moodys-says-uk-banks-dont-need-eu-passporting-rights

 

 

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I think, since there's enough discussion on similar lines in the politics threads with the election coming up, and the fact that this debate has become increasingly circular amongst an increasingly small group of people, we may as well lock it for the time being at least. 

Once the election is over and the Brexit negotiations begin in earnest, we will start a new Brexit thread, but for now, for those who have been hammering away in here daily since long before the referendum, you can grab a well earned break!

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