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UK & EU Economies post Brexit

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10 hours ago, DAVID SNOW said:

Ashamed? LOL

Its those on the left/far left, who are ashamed, ashamed to be British!

Now get over it, and let this great country get on....

:rofl: Were you listening to Land of Hope and Glory when you posted that, Dave? Nowt quite like massaging one's inner Alf Garnet, eh?

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8 hours ago, nick sussex said:

As much as I hated the result Mike I can't see a situation where the result is reversed. At the end of the day I don't really blame the Leave voters but Cameron because he made that decision to call it when he was warned it was very risky. He was too arrogant and overly confident and thought because he got away with it with the Scottish referendum that he would be lucky again.

We can debate the campaigns and how the vote turned into a proxy for other issues not related to the EU but we can't turn the clock back, its happened. It's upto parliament now to make sure they scrutinize and hold the government to account and make sure the rabid EU hating wing of the Tories doesn't take over the agenda.

What happens to the UK in the years ahead is hard to say but the constitutional mess left by this vote is going to be very hard to overcome, GB is less united now than at any time in recent history. Two weeks of jingoistic flag waving during the Olympics was just papering over the widening cracks.

 

Spot on, there is no way on gods green earth there will be a reversal of decision, a second referendum or even a referendum to ratify what the Brexit negotiators finally agree. The only input on the subject will now come from parliament, Eddie Izzard, Richard 'I can't ride a bike' Branson and Bob 'the nob' Geldof et al might as well shut their pie holes and move on, because we are leaving the EU and that is that. 

Also completely agree that this whole thing has created an enormous constitutional mess, but it is a mess that will be sorted because ultimately there is no other option. The people have spoken, their will must and will be obeyed, whether you, I or anyone else likes it or not.....it's called democracy. 

Edited by coldcomfort

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9 hours ago, nick sussex said:

As much as I hated the result Mike I can't see a situation where the result is reversed. At the end of the day I don't really blame the Leave voters but Cameron because he made that decision to call it when he was warned it was very risky. He was too arrogant and overly confident and thought because he got away with it with the Scottish referendum that he would be lucky again.

We can debate the campaigns and how the vote turned into a proxy for other issues not related to the EU but we can't turn the clock back, its happened. It's up to parliament now to make sure they scrutinize and hold the government to account and make sure the rabid EU hating wing of the Tories doesn't take over the agenda.

What happens to the UK in the years ahead is hard to say but the constitutional mess left by this vote is going to be very hard to overcome, GB is less united now than at any time in recent history. Two weeks of jingoistic flag waving during the Olympics was just papering over the widening cracks.

 

Nick..

I suspect that one of the most sensible posts of the week. Yet it has no likes!!!

This tells me a lot about the posters on this forum, as it shows they clearly are not interested in actuality.

I do not understand why you had to add in  the last sentence though, as in a few months time the Olympics will be forgotten.

Do you not also think that the Brussels effort at claiming to be top of the medal table was in anyway jingoistic?

People on both sides will argue their own sides point of view (whether personal or political) and totally ignore the rest.

I tip my hat to you (yes I know the French version!), since you are clearly more adaptable.

Certain people on here are running around like headless chickens, looking for anything and everything that they think shows that we were all misled. It is a total waste of time.  We were not misled, we were miss-informed - by the 'Remain' campaign. The people saw through it and did not believe it

I always thought that the bulldog spirit would play a part in the result. English people do not like being fed obvious dog do-do's!! This could always have been expected from certain 'leave'  people, but not from our top ministers!.  (I speak as someone who was 'pro' Cameron (and Osborne), but their attempt to hoodwink the conservative and neutral  voters clearly failed).

The posts on here show that their messages were believed more by 'remainers' than by the neutral people (where the result of the referendum lay), as most of them felt antagonized by the bullsxxt.. 

Many people are now hoping that the forecast recession will hit England, Wales and NI. I say this because clearly Scotland is immune to everything bad that could happen!  

I was unhappy when Cameron took the ultimate step and resigned when he had said a week before that he would remain, but looking back now, he left himself no alternative. That caused total confusion.

May now has a very difficult job. I see from this morning' s press that she is asking everyone in her cabinet for their versions of Brexit.

It is 'remainers' only hope of a watered down Brexit.

It is now clear that a re-run of the ref will not occur. . 

MIA

.

.

 

Edited by Midlands Ice Age

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9 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Nick..

I suspect that one of the most sensible posts of the week. Yet it has no likes!!!

I liked it. This part was spot on:

Quote

What happens to the UK in the years ahead is hard to say but the constitutional mess left by this vote is going to be very hard to overcome, GB is less united now than at any time in recent history. Two weeks of jingoistic flag waving during the Olympics was just papering over the widening cracks.

 

Edited by scottish skier

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8 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

I liked it. The part was spot on:

 

SS..

Not when I quoted it you hadn't!.

I see you quoted the last paragraph in your reply, when I clearly stated that it was the last sentence I had referred too.

Talk about deliberate misrepresentation!.. You seem to be making an art form of it!

The UK is clearly in a constitutional crisis. But this was going to happen anyway due to your efforts. The SNP has been around longer than the referendum. The referendum just enabled you to force it onto the table, more quickly.

You are a highly political animal!. People are latching on to what you are about.

Whether you get your  way, is very uncertain..

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8 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

SS..

Not when I quoted it you hadn't!.

I see you quoted the last paragraph in your reply, when I clearly stated that it was the last sentence I had referred too.

Talk about deliberate misrepresentation!.. You seem to be making an art form of it!

The UK is clearly in a constitutional crisis. But this was going to happen anyway due to your efforts. The SNP has been around longer than the referendum. The referendum just enabled you to force it onto the table, more quickly.

You are a highly political animal!. People are latching on to what you are about.

Whether you get your  way, is very uncertain..

I didn't misinterpret anything. I just said I too agreed with Nick's post and that I thought the last bit paragraph bang on. I never mentioned anything you said at all.

And I voted to remain in union with the rest of the UK in June. I also did that in September 2014. The European Union.

It is you that voted for an end to unionism / major constitutional change. 

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54 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Nick..

I suspect that one of the most sensible posts of the week. Yet it has no likes!!!

I read what he is saying and he is correct in that the vote result will not be reversed but that does not mean it will ever be implemented fully either. No sensible government will implement a policy that would be ultimately destructive for its country - long negotiations will establish something that is a compromise. Neither side may be wholly satisfied but in the end it is how democracy does things or at least should be.

Hope you had a nice holiday - picked a great week weatherwise. :)

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10 hours ago, nick sussex said:

As much as I hated the result Mike I can't see a situation where the result is reversed. At the end of the day I don't really blame the Leave voters but Cameron because he made that decision to call it when he was warned it was very risky. He was too arrogant and overly confident and thought because he got away with it with the Scottish referendum that he would be lucky again.

We can debate the campaigns and how the vote turned into a proxy for other issues not related to the EU but we can't turn the clock back, its happened. It's upto parliament now to make sure they scrutinize and hold the government to account and make sure the rabid EU hating wing of the Tories doesn't take over the agenda.

What happens to the UK in the years ahead is hard to say but the constitutional mess left by this vote is going to be very hard to overcome, GB is less united now than at any time in recent history. Two weeks of jingoistic flag waving during the Olympics was just papering over the widening cracks.

 

Cameron was arrogant and smug as soon as he won the majority you could see it in his face. Every priministers questions you could see it written all over his face even before that, and before corbyn. He could do no wrong. After his majority win he really thought he had the majority of the electorate with him, and didn't think he was risking anything. He misjudged the amount of UKIP voters who voted conservative just to get the ref vote. I'm sure even farage knew that was the reason he didn't win some of the seats he thought he would. 

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Putting aside all the babble about making sure that 'Brexit means Brexit' (or whatever that's supposed to mean) for a moment, the biggest single hurdle is a very simple one: even the Brexiteers themselves appear to be utterly clueless as to the eventual outcome...

Are there still no actual plans?

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5 minutes ago, Ed Stone said:

Putting aside all the babble about making sure that 'Brexit means Brexit' (or whatever that's supposed to mean) for a moment, the biggest single hurdle is a very simple one: even the Brexiteers themselves appear to be utterly clueless as to the eventual outcome...

Are there still no actual plans?

Parliaments holiday finishes soon, may be we'll start to hear about intentions soon, I hope so anyway, I also hope it settles things down economically for a bit. That really should be the first priority.

Personally I don't think they should have gone on holiday at all this year, they should have stayed in office and started working on problems associated with brexit immediately. 

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I do hope you're right, Alexis...But, with conference season and autumn recess fast approaching, I rather suspect it'll be a good while yet before anything much gets done...

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4 minutes ago, Ed Stone said:

I do hope you're right, Alexis...But, with conference season and autumn recess fast approaching, I rather suspect it'll be a good while yet before anything much gets done...

They get more brakes then school teachers by the sounds of things, wish I had know that, might have tried to make a career in politics :rofl:

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17 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

Parliaments holiday finishes soon, may be we'll start to hear about intentions soon, I hope so anyway, I also hope it settles things down economically for a bit. That really should be the first priority.

Personally I don't think they should have gone on holiday at all this year, they should have stayed in office and started working on problems associated with brexit immediately. 

Can't imagine that they'll announce what they want from Brexit until after the Autumn statement. 

 

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17 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

They get more brakes then school teachers by the sounds of things

Indeed!

2016-17 Commons sessions

Easter 24 March 2016 - 11 April 2016

Early May Bank Holiday 28 April 2016 - 3 May 2016

Whitsun 26 May 2016 - 6 June 2016

Recess 15 June 2016 - 27 June 2016

Summer 21 July 2016 - 5 September 2016

Conference 15 September 2016 - 10 October 2016

November 8 November 2016 - 14 November 2016

Christmas 20 December 2016 - 9 January 2017

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49 minutes ago, Ed Stone said:

Putting aside all the babble about making sure that 'Brexit means Brexit' (or whatever that's supposed to mean) for a moment, the biggest single hurdle is a very simple one: even the Brexiteers themselves appear to be utterly clueless as to the eventual outcome...

Are there still no actual plans?

And whose fault is that? The Leave camp were not, are not and never will be responsible for formulating a Brexit strategy/plan, that was, is and will remain the responsibility of HM Government or those they appoint. As Alexis alluded to above, the real problem here as the arrogance of Cameron, who in never even countenancing the possibility of a Leave vote clearly had no plan B in place should it happen.

Therefore the fault for the current malaise lies firmly with Dodgy Dave and his arrogant cronies, who simply but spectacularly misread the mood of the British public. 

Edited by coldcomfort

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2 hours ago, Ed Stone said:

:rofl: Were you listening to Land of Hope and Glory when you posted that, Dave? Nowt quite like massaging one's inner Alf Garnet, eh?

No.

And, If you are comparing me to the TV character , who , if I remember correctly was a bigot and a racist, then fine, but as you don't actually know me, the only way you could back up your ridiculous snipe, would be to post up an example or 10, of my racist and bigoted posts!!.. If not, then imo, you and your comment will look stupid..:)

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14 minutes ago, coldcomfort said:

And whose fault is that? The Leave camp were not, are not and never will be responsible for formulating a Brexit stately/plan, that was, is and will remain the responsibility of HM Government or those they appoint. As Alexis alluded to above, the real problem here as the arrogance of Cameron, who in never even countenancing the possibility of a Leave vote clearly had no plan B in place should it happen.

Therefore the fault for the current malaise lies firmly with Dodgy Dave and his arrogant cronies, who simply but spectacularly misread the mood of the British public. 

While I agree on Dave and co's arrogance, do you have any idea how ridiculous it sounds to demand that people against England & Wales leaving the EU should be responsible for putting together and implementing a plan for this because the leave camp singularly failed to do so.

This is like the SNP abdicating responsibility in the event of a Yes to Scottish independence and demanding the Tories deal with it / take the flack if it all goes wrong.

It seems a lot of leavers just want to put the responsibility / blame if things go wrong onto anyone but themselves. Boris running away from being PM is case in point.

Edited by scottish skier

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1 minute ago, coldcomfort said:

And whose fault is that? The Leave camp were not, are not and never will be responsible for formulating a Brexit stately/plan, that was, is and will remain the responsibility of HM Government or those they appoint. As Alexis alluded to above, the real problem here as the arrogance of Cameron, who in never even countenancing the possibility of a Leave vote clearly had no plan B in place should it happen.

Therefore the fault for the current malaise lies firmly with Dodgy Dave and his arrogant cronies, who simply but spectacularly misread the mood of the British public. 

Ah, the arrogance and "not my problem guv" attitude that has put the country in this mess. I'm reminded of the Simpsons episode where Homer is elected Mayor under the slogan "Can't someone else do it!"

Like the screaming child who knows what they don't want, but shouts NO to every other solution. The Brexiteers are that bunch of petulant children, and I'm afraid we have an awful lot of tantrums to get through, before they slam the bedroom door and spend the next metaphorial week sulking.

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.Ah! I can now add petulance to the list of insults! (we've already had arrogance)

Never forget that petulant children quickly work out how to achieve what they want, berating them never gets you anywhere.

The government should have had at least some plans ready for either result - they were the ones asking the question.

Now we need to get Ministers and the civil service working together.

 

 

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12 hours ago, davehsug said:

In that respect you're right of course, they did not "pass the mandate". If you believe in the sovereignty of parliament, you have to decide whether the considered & informed opinion of about 70% of MPs, trumps that of 37% of the electorate.

Yes

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54 minutes ago, davehsug said:

Ah, the arrogance and "not my problem guv" attitude that has put the country in this mess. I'm reminded of the Simpsons episode where Homer is elected Mayor under the slogan "Can't someone else do it!"

Like the screaming child who knows what they don't want, but shouts NO to every other solution. The Brexiteers are that bunch of petulant children, and I'm afraid we have an awful lot of tantrums to get through, before they slam the bedroom door and spend the next metaphorial week sulking.

Irony Alert!! Irony Alert!! Irony Alert!! :yahoo:

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3 hours ago, coldcomfort said:

Spot on, there is no way on gods green earth there will be a reversal of decision, a second referendum or even a referendum to ratify what the Brexit negotiators finally agree. The only input on the subject will now come from parliament, Eddie Izzard, Richard 'I can't ride a bike' Branson and Bob 'the nob' Geldof et al might as well shut their pie holes and move on, because we are leaving the EU and that is that. 

Also completely agree that this whole thing has created an enormous constitutional mess, but it is a mess that will be sorted because ultimately there is no other option. The people have spoken, their will must and will be obeyed, whether you, I or anyone else likes it or not.....it's called democracy. 

You and I have very different ideas of what constitutes a democracy - I don't call getting a result through appealing to peoples baser instincts through telling lies and making false promises, democratic.

The conduct of the leave campaign was tantamount to the rabble rousing of a mob where fair and considered decisions by a sizable number of the voters were unlikely, hence their slight majority.

We elect our representatives in parliament to make decisions on our behalf - it may be that they will decide that after due deliberation and a vote decide that a brexit is not the best thing for our country after all - who knows, none of us can prejudge the outcome of this. 

In the meantime I will cross my fingers and toes, hope for the best

 

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1 hour ago, scottish skier said:

While I agree on Dave and co's arrogance, do you have any idea how ridiculous it sounds to demand that people against England & Wales leaving the EU should be responsible for putting together and implementing a plan for this because the leave camp singularly failed to do so.

This is like the SNP abdicating responsibility in the event of a Yes to Scottish independence and demanding the Tories deal with it / take the flack if it all goes wrong.

It seems a lot of leavers just want to put the responsibility / blame if things go wrong onto anyone but themselves. Boris running away from being PM is case in point.

There is nothing ridiculous about it, because it is the job of those in government to implement the will of the people, not to only implement the bits they agree with. They now have a very important job to do, so they need to leave the dummy throwing about the result to the likes of the many remainers on here, who since Jun 24th have turned whinging and whining into something an art form.

Edited by coldcomfort

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5 minutes ago, coldcomfort said:

There is nothing ridiculous about it, because it is the job of those in government to implement the will of the people, not to only implement the bits they agree with. They now have a job to do and they need to leave the dummy throwing about the result to the likes of the many remainers on here, who since Jun 24th have whinging and whining something an art form.

What's the will of the people?

The leavers have not specified this. They're asking Remain politicians to implement something they have not specified.

What about in the EEA with full freedom of movement, adherence to EU laws but no say in these, and membership financial contributions to the EU largely as now? That would be 'out of the EU' as per the ballot question.

Edited by scottish skier

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1 hour ago, DAVID SNOW said:

No.

And, If you are comparing me to the TV character , who , if I remember correctly was a bigot and a racist, then fine, but as you don't actually know me, the only way you could back up your ridiculous snipe, would be to post up an example or 10, of my racist and bigoted posts!!.. If not, then imo, you and your comment will look stupid..:)

Apologies Dave...It was meant as a joke, and nowt else. And, you are quite right, my comment does look stupid...It was never supposed to anything different...:D

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