Summer 2016

[stainesbloke]

1 hour ago, Mapantz said:

.. because you're doing it in every single post. We live in the UK, the weather will always be topsy-turvy, year to year, decade to decade. If you cannot get on in life without moaning about it being a cloudier Summer than others, then you've got an unhealthy problem.

Everytime I pop in here, I swear i've read all the posts before, yet we're another 5 pages in..

 

Unhealthy problem? Fetish? Bit harsh. Maybe many of us are getting depressed having to endure gloomy grey skies on a near constant basis in what is supposed to be 'summer'. Made worse by the last decade producing often similar conditions. Sunshine is healthy, mood-lifting, vitamin D producing goodness; this filth masquerading as our recent climate really isn't. And moaning about the weather is a British right!

Edited August 2, 2016 by stainesbloke

[Wildswimmer Pete]

Just posted this report under North West England regional weather reports:

"After a dull start the rain started which kept on until around 1-2pm when it cleared.  Presumably it was a warm front because although remained cloudy with a couple of bright intervals, the temp shot up to 23C. That was as measured using the accurate glass thermo I use for water temperatures.  We went swimming in the Afon Dyfrdwy at Bangor-is-y-Coed followed by a pub lunch at the adjoining Royal Oak.  Water temp 17C/63F which is about right for the time of year."

OK it was in North Wales but not far from the Cheshire border (Afon Dyfrdwy = River Dee).  Under usual circumstances today would have been regarded as overcast and pretty meh.  Given what we've endured during the past two months today's offering was half-decent.

[Mapantz]

8 minutes ago, stainesbloke said:

Unhealthy problem? Bit harsh. Maybe many of us are getting depressed having to endure gloomy grey skies on a near constant basis in what is supposed to be 'summer'. Made worse by the last decade producing often similar conditions. Sunshine is healthy, this filth masquerading as our recent climate really isn't.

It's not harsh at all. Surely you're wise enough to know what the UK can be dealt with in weather terms? If people are getting depressed about the amount of cloud (not referring to SAD) then it does suggest that there is an issue. Unless you're not leaving the house on cloudy days, you're still going to get a dose of UV, regardless. I honestly have never seen such whining before! I can imagineif it was a whole month of clear skies, then someone would be complaining that the sky isn't blue enough.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Mapantz

[Wildswimmer Pete]

17 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

That's not what I was referring to. I should, perhaps, change problem to fetish.   

That's even more insulting. Those of us (myself included) who are "moaning" are suffering from SAD which isn't normal depression. It's a condition caused by a neurochemical problem and it can't be "snapped out" of.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Wildswimmer Pete

[B87]

10 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

It's not harsh at all. Surely you're wise enough to know what the UK can be dealt with in weather terms? If people are getting depressed about the amount of cloud (not referring to SAD) then it does suggest that there is an issue. Unless you're not leaving the house on cloudy days, you're still going to get a dose of UV, regardless. I honestly have never seen such whining before! I can imagineif it was a whole month of clear skies, then someone would be complaining that the sky isn't blue enough.

I never moaned much in the summer of 2007 because at the time it was just a blip, and it's expected to have a couple of crap summers per decade, a couple of good ones, and the rest normal.  We've been having lots of poor summers recently, and only 2 average or good ones.

I like the normal climate of SE England, which this isn't.  If this was our long term average, I would have emigrated by now.

Edited August 2, 2016 by B87

[Mapantz]

53 minutes ago, Wildswimmer Pete said:

That's even more insulting. Those of us (myself included) who are "moaning" are suffering from SAD which isn't normal depression. It's a condition caused by a neurochemical problem and it can't "snapped out" of.

I haven't referred to SAD in any of my posts, none of them were directly or indirectly pointing towards SAD either. No insult was intended.

Your thread is here if you want to talk about it:

 

Edited August 2, 2016 by Nick L

[stainesbloke]

33 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

It's not harsh at all. Surely you're wise enough to know what the UK can be dealt with in weather terms? If people are getting depressed about the amount of cloud (not referring to SAD) then it does suggest that there is an issue. Unless you're not leaving the house on cloudy days, you're still going to get a dose of UV, regardless. I honestly have never seen such whining before! I can imagineif it was a whole month of clear skies, then someone would be complaining that the sky isn't blue enough.

But it's not just about UV levels. I spend most of my days off outdoors (have 2 allotments and just like being outside generally). I don't know if I'm suffering from the effects of SAD or not; what I do know is that sunshine and blue skies (in winter too) is such a huge tonic. Of course one must be realistic; this is the UK. Cloud has always been quite plentiful. But it's the cumulative run of dreary gloom that is a real problem. I expect a couple of crap summers per decade (along with a couple of good ones, the rest average) but it's just relentless. I live near London, not Glasgow or Belfast. Endless low pressure, gloom, wind. Boring as hell too! 

Edited August 2, 2016 by stainesbloke

[Mapantz]

5 minutes ago, stainesbloke said:

But it's not just about UV levels. I spend most of my days off outdoors (have 2 allotments and just like being outside generally). I don't know if I'm suffering from the effects of SAD or not; what I do know is that sunshine and blue skies (in winter too) is such a huge tonic. Of course one must be realistic; this is the UK. Cloud has always been quite plentiful. But it's the cumulative run of dreary gloom that is a real problem. I expect a couple of crap summers per decade (along with a couple of good ones, the rest average) but it's just relentless. Endless low pressure, gloom, wind. Boring as hell too!

Well, it's funny because the latest MetO map, showing sunshine percentages for July, puts your area as seeing more sunshine than me. I recorded 149.1hrs, with the MetO regional average being 203.1, and it was pretty darn sunny here. If it wasn't full on sunshine, it was definitely bright and not overcast. I don't get why you're saying endless low pressure? We haven't had endless low pressure? You may have seen above average rainfall in June, but that was localised areas, because I didn't get it. July has been bone dry for much of the country, and it has been sunny for many, despite not hitting "The averages" it's a complete exaggeration.

[Evening thunder]

Another month over so how did conditions actually fare across the country as a whole when averaged?

Mean maximum temperatures were generally a little cooler than normal towards the North and West, a little warmer than normal in the East, and average in between:



With regards to rainfall was wetter in the north and dry in the south (very dry in places)

and for sunshine, western areas generally a bit duller than normal, especially NW Scotland, many central and eastern areas near average, in fact slightly above in places (Sorry I can't tell you what time of day it occurred...)
 
(Except for Heathrow where clearly there has been a very cloudy anomaly too small to be picked up by these maps, for like the 33rd summer month in a row  )

Most places east of a line from Dorset up to Yorkshire saw over 200 hours of sun (presumably CS recordings or corrected to CS). I have more basis to moan than those in the SE.. and if an average July sunshine wise there causes SAD in the population that does suggest something else (such as our indoor lifestyle) is the problem.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Evening thunder

[Gael_Force]

39 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

It's not harsh at all. Surely you're wise enough to know what the UK can be dealt with in weather terms? If people are getting depressed about the amount of cloud (not referring to SAD) then it does suggest that there is an issue. Unless you're not leaving the house on cloudy days, you're still going to get a dose of UV, regardless. I honestly have never seen such whining before! I can imagineif it was a whole month of clear skies, then someone would be complaining that the sky isn't blue enough.

The feel good is not about UV, it's strong, bright light that is missing when it is cloudy. You are being far too harsh on people who are not moaning for the hell of it. If you don't like put on ignore or skip the posts but this level of moaning should alert you to the fact that it is not just this year but a cumulative effect.

[stainesbloke]

7 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

Well, it's funny because the latest MetO map, showing sunshine percentages for July, puts your area as seeing more sunshine than me. I recorded 149.1hrs, with the MetO regional average being 203.1, and it was pretty darn sunny here. If it wasn't full on sunshine, it was definitely bright and not overcast. I don't get why you're saying endless low pressure? We haven't had endless low pressure? You may have seen above average rainfall in June, but that was localised areas, because I didn't get it. July has been bone dry for much of the country, and it has been sunny for many, despite not hitting "The averages" it's a complete exaggeration.

My area records more sunshine than yours doesn't it? And July was below average here too. Average here isn't too bad actually. But again, July, although not awful, was below average and followed an utterly dreadful June. That's the 2 best months of summer over with less than one week of very good weather between them. Not great at all and certainly not darn sunny here! August ain't looking too hot either, bar maybe one or two days later this week. 

So you're saying there hasn't been trough domination this summer? Just because it hasn't rained much? 

Edited August 2, 2016 by stainesbloke

[Wildswimmer Pete]

6 minutes ago, Gael_Force said:

The feel good is not about UV, it's strong, bright light that is missing when it is cloudy. You are being far too harsh on people who are not moaning for the hell of it. If you don't like put on ignore or skip the posts but this level of moaning should alert you to the fact that it is not just this year but a cumulative effect.

When discussing SAD while most studies come to the conclusion that the controlling factor is the intensity of light that falls on the retina during the waking hours.  However some research maintains that skin exposure to bright light can moderate the effects of SAD. This isn't linked with the action of UV on the skin, it's a separate process - you don't need to use a sunlamp.

 

[stainesbloke]

11 minutes ago, Evening thunder said:

Another month over so how did conditions actually fare across the country as a whole when averaged?

Mean maximum temperatures were generally a little cooler than normal towards the North and West, a little warmer than normal in the East, and average in between:



With regards to rainfall was wetter in the north and dry in the south (very dry in places)

and for sunshine, western areas generally a bit duller than normal, especially NW Scotland, many central and eastern areas near average, in fact slightly above in places (Sorry I can't tell you what time of day it occurred...)
 
(Except for Heathrow where clearly there has been a very cloudy anomaly too small to be picked up by these maps, for like the 33rd summer month in a row  )

Most places east of a line from Dorset up to Yorkshire saw over 200 hours of sun (presumably CS recordings or corrected to CS). I have more basis to moan than those in the SE.. and if an average July sunshine wise there causes SAD that does suggest something else (such as our indoor lifestyle) is the problem.

But you can't just take one month in isolation and state, rather facetiously, that we have a 'problem'. Perhaps the last decade and its abnormal count of vile summers adds up in a sort of cumulative effect? Is wishing for above average sunshine and temperatures so wrong in this instance?

[reef]

14 minutes ago, Evening thunder said:

Another month over so how did conditions actually fare across the country as a whole when averaged?

Mean maximum temperatures were generally a little cooler than normal towards the North and West, a little warmer than normal in the East, and average in between:

With regards to rainfall was wetter in the north and dry in the south (very dry in places)

and for sunshine, western areas generally a bit duller than normal, especially NW Scotland, many central and eastern areas near average, in fact slightly above in places (Sorry I can't tell you what time of day it occurred...)

(Except for Heathrow where clearly there has been a very cloudy anomaly too small to be picked up by these maps, for like the 33rd summer month in a row  )

Most places east of a line from Dorset up to Yorkshire saw over 200 hours of sun (presumably CS recordings or corrected to CS). I have more basis to moan than those in the SE.. and if an average July sunshine wise there causes SAD in the population that does suggest something else (such as our indoor lifestyle) is the problem.

Those charts pretty much confirm what my own readings showed for July. We had:

Mean Max: 21.9C (+1.3C)
Mean Min: 13.0C (+0.0C)
Mean: 17.5C (+0.7C)

Rainfall: 40.2mm (74%)
Sunshine: 214hrs (108%)

A very decent month overall. It was the 10th warmest since 1980 and 5th sunniest since 2001. We also recorded a maximum of 28.8C on the 19th which was the highest since 2006.

 

[Mapantz]

12 minutes ago, stainesbloke said:

So you're saying there hasn't been trough domination this summer? Just because it hasn't rained much? 

No, I'm saying that you're over exaggerating by saying constant low pressure, gloom and wind. You must have your own system that follows you around, because it has not been like that here.

(This is not to do with your post btw):

Why are people suddenly jumping at me about SAD? I haven't mentioned anything to do with it in my posts, so I don't understand why people are jumping to conclusions and accusing me of berating people with it. I know people who suffer with it myself, and wouldn't dream of questioning the condition.

[Nick L]

Way too much doom and gloom regarding this summer IMO. Hasn't been half as bad as some are claiming.

[Evening thunder]

4 minutes ago, stainesbloke said:

But you can't just take one month in isolation and state, rather facetiously, that we have a 'problem'. Perhaps the last decade and its abnormal count of vile summers adds up in a sort of cumulative effect? Is wishing for above average sunshine and temperatures so wrong in this instance?

True, but the data doesn't show the past decade has been that unusual as I have tried to say before, even if we've had a few more poor ones than in the earlier 2000s and 90's
 

Hardly a dent in the average figure there. 

I'm afraid that, not sure if intentional but the real impression I've got from this thread recently is it seems the data and stats are irrelevant as they often show different to, and get in the way of peoples moaning (aimed at a few people not anyone in particular).

I wasn't meaning people have a 'problem' themselves, more that I can only conclude based on the data such as that graph above, that either people often got SAD from past poor summers, or that a factor external to climate has increased the prevalence of SAD recently.

 

6 minutes ago, Mapantz said:

Why are people suddenly jumping at me about SAD? I haven't mentioned anything to do with it in my posts, so I don't understand why people are jumping to conclusions and accusing me of berating people with it. I know people who suffer with it myself, and wouldn't dream of questioning the condition.

Don't worry, it happened to me before when I tried bring in actual data.

[stainesbloke]

25 minutes ago, Evening thunder said:

True, but the data doesn't show the past decade has been that unusual as I have tried to say before, even if we've had a few more poor ones than in the earlier 2000s and 90's
 

Hardly a dent in the average figure there. 

I'm afraid that, not sure if intentional but the real impression I've got from this thread recently is it seems the data and stats are irrelevant as they often show different to, and get in the way of peoples moaning (aimed at a few people not anyone in particular).

I wasn't meaning people have a 'problem' themselves, more that I can only conclude based on the data such as that graph above, that either people often got SAD from past poor summers, or that a factor external to climate has increased the prevalence of SAD recently.

Maybe. Of course the graphs you post are useful to a degree but they don't take into account important factors such as what times of the day are sunny etc. A couple of hours sunshine at each end of a day might give average sunshine totals but completely miss out the fact that the majority of the workable day, and the part of the day with strongest, most penetrating solar radiation, is blocked by heavy cloud. This, in my experience and observation, has been the case in summer this last decade far more frequently than in previous years. Hence my personal moaning, but I can understand people don't want to hear it. 

[Weather-history]

On 28 July 2016 at 14:05, B87 said:

 

The Augusts we've been getting since 2006 are NOT normal British summer weather.

A run of poor specific months is not unprecedented.

The Augusts of the 1920s were generally poor months and at times particularly cool, whilst the Augusts of the 1930s tended to be warmer with notable heatwaves

1920s decadal August average: 15.0
1930s decadal August average: 16.3

Number of days with a daily CET mean of 20.0C+

1920s: 1
1930s: 17

There was only one August in the 1920s that breeched the 16.0 CET mark: (1926: 16.2)
There were 7 August in the 1930s that breeched the 16.0 CET mark and 2 that breeched the 17.0 CET mark (1932: 17.1; 1933: 17.6)

The Augusts of the 1930s tended to be drier as well

1920s August rainfall average: 89.9mm
1930s August rainfall average: 65.9mm

There were no sub 50mm Augusts in the 1920s, there were 4 in the 1930s.

There were a run of wet Augusts from about 1946 to 1963. There were odd dry ones thrown in but they were a whole bunch over 100mm.

 

Edited August 3, 2016 by Weather-history

[reef]

5 hours ago, Weather-history said:

A run of poor specific months is not unprecedented.

The Augusts of the 1920s were generally poor months and at times particularly cool, whilst the Augusts of the 1930s tended to be warmer with notable heatwaves

1920s decadal August average: 15.0
1930s decadal August average: 16.3

Number of days with a daily CET mean of 20.0C+

1920s: 1
1930s: 17

There was only one August in the 1920s that breeched the 16.0 CET mark: (1926: 16.2)
There were 7 August in the 1930s that breeched the 16.0 CET mark and 2 that breeched the 17.0 CET mark (1932: 17.1; 1933: 17.6)

The Augusts of the 1930s tended to be drier as well

1920s August rainfall average: 89.9mm
1930s August rainfall average: 65.9mm

There were no sub 50mm Augusts in the 1920s, there were 4 in the 1930s.

There were a run of wet Augusts from about 1946 to 1963. There were odd dry ones thrown in but they were a whole bunch over 100mm.

 

Yes and its often the case in here that people are comparing to the 1989-2006 period which was highly unusual for the number of warm Augusts and above average summers on the whole. As for August, from 1994-2004 every single one was above average!

I wonder what the reaction would be if people were able to comment on forums like this in the 60s? The nine summers from 1960-1968 were all below the 30 year average and out of 9 Julys and 9 Augusts in those summers, just July 1967 was above average. In fact, the warmest August was 15.7C in that period and there was only 8 months above 15.2C out of the 27! Compare that to the 1932-50 period previous which had 17 out of 19 above average summers!

Its basically nothing unusual in the UK. We have periods of better summers and periods of worse ones.

[B87]

18 minutes ago, reef said:

 As for August, from 1994-2004 every single one was above average!

Maybe across the country as a whole, but from 1998-2005 here, they were all about average apart from 2003 and maybe 2004.  August 1994 and 1996 were average here too. Only 1995, 1997, 2003 stand out for being noticeably above normal.

1998: 23.5c/12.7c

1999: 22.8c/14.0c

2000: 23.2c/14.0c

2001: 23.5c/14.5c

2002: 23.3c/14.7c

2003: 26.4c/15.7c

2004: 23.8c/15.1c

2005: 23.2c/13.0c

Edited August 3, 2016 by B87

[weatherguru14]

Mentioning the bbc outlook 2 days ago...not giving up on summer just yet.... we are pretty certain by the middle of august we will   be under a southerly flow.. Looking at the models (if they can be believed) its looking more like a northerly.. so the good old bbc  have  only got the wind direction 180o incorrect!..

[B87]

5 minutes ago, weatherguru14 said:

Mentioning the bbc outlook 2 days ago...not giving up on summer just yet.... we are pretty certain by the middle of august we will   be under a southerly flow.. Looking at the models (if they can be believed) its looking more like a northerly.. so the good old bbc  have  only got the wind direction 180o incorrect!..

Any time anything decent has shown up on the forecast, it almost always gets downgraded.

We will probably end up with a couple of days of 24-25c at best, nothing special.

Edited August 3, 2016 by B87

[Evening thunder]

11 hours ago, stainesbloke said:

Maybe. Of course the graphs you post are useful to a degree but they don't take into account important factors such as what times of the day are sunny etc. A couple of hours sunshine at each end of a day might give average sunshine totals but completely miss out the fact that the majority of the workable day, and the part of the day with strongest, most penetrating solar radiation, is blocked by heavy cloud. This, in my experience and observation, has been the case in summer this last decade far more frequently than in previous years. Hence my personal moaning, but I can understand people don't want to hear it. 

That is true but I reckon that has occurred in past summers, especially the poorer ones. Though maybe it has happened more in recent summers compared to the 90's and before 2006 (though that was a relatively good period for summers so using that as the baseline will give a bias to more disappointing/below average results)

Weather History and Reef have said  pretty much what I have tried to, but in better terms.

[Wildswimmer Pete]

Well, my take on today's conditions are as expressed in my post on the North West Regional thread:

"What I thought was going to become another cloudfest turned out to be half-decent with long sunny intervals.  However come lunchtime the wind got up and currently blowing an F7 gale - the trees themselves here are in motion with the trunks moving slightly. Despite the wind, I didn't notice any windchill when sunbathing topless.  Liverpool ATIS reports 19C with a DP of 12C so the air isn't particularly humid."

Notably stormy for August with that autumnal low crossing Scotland.