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Lauren

What action should be taken on IS in Syria?

What action should be taken against IS in Syria?  

35 members have voted

  1. 1. What action should the UK take?

    • Airstrikes only.
      3
    • Airstrikes plus ground troops.
      19
    • No airstrikes, but ground troops only.
      0
    • No airstrikes but ground troops and community based work to restore order.
      5
    • No action. Leave things as they are.
      8


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As this is currently being debated and voted, I thought it would be interesting to see what Netweather thinks. I'm going to add in a few options.

I'm not including targeting the financial support to IS, because as far as I'm aware this has been promised to be targeted by more than one country.

 

EDIT: I should have made this poll only, so please just assume this is that.

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already being discussed in the middle east thread.

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I voted for both ground troops with help from the air. But the major caveat has to be that we get a unified force and strategy in place that involves all parties be it the West, Russia, and other middle eastern countries. If we cannot get a united force together then it should be a no go.

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If ISIS is embedded in places where innocent citizens are, no.  We are not 'at war' with people, or Syria.  We are bombing what we think are ISIS targets.  Those who fund and arm them are so far above the law they will never suffer.  The butchers and deluded young ones, and their victims are pure cannon fodder in a much bigger battle.

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I saw pictures of an area recaptured from IS and the tunnels they had dug under/between the houses of the local population. Air strikes alone will not rid us of this pestilence; ground forces will be a necessity to complete the task.

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I agree with the above. I feel that after the blunders of Iraq and Afghanistan where invasion wasn't justified, we have no reluctance now to actually intervene properly when it is needed. What also made such a mess of Iraq in particular was going in with no clear end goal - we toppled Saddam but there was no vision for what happened to Iraq after that. We left too quickly.

These proposed airstrikes - simply an attempt by Cameron and countless other idiots in government to make it look like we are doing something, which is apparently better than nothing - not realising that airstrikes, not least by our very limited capability, will make no difference at all, and while current airstrikes have had somewhat limited success in killing targets, it has made no difference to the capabilities to Daesh - and certainly not their ability to orchestrate terror attacks thousands of miles away - not to mention Russia, which seems to have entered a giddy trigger-happy state is doing more harm than good by killing countless civilians in Syria - and their presence certainly isn't welcomed by the residents there.

I can't help but feel that Cameron feels a little stung by the fact that his counterparts elsewhere in the world view him as a joke - truly one of the weakest leaders in the G8 if not the weakest. A huge embarrassment to us. He clearly wants to act like a big man by waving his willy around.

The entire thing is a total mess, the people we have elected to handle situations like this are doing so poorly and it won't end well.

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56 minutes ago, summer blizzard said:

Syria should be occupied.

 

Maybe, though who occupies, and for how long?  If we take a colonial approach and reign for an unlimited length of time, the locals may become hostile.   We need to wage war on all insurgents, then ensure that the Assad government are in power prior to withdrawal.  I doubt any of us could honestly claim to support the form of government the Assad regime represents (unless a few of our more right-wing members have an appreciation for totalitarian rule), but they are the best, or perhaps least worst, option.

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The UK Government has voted FOR airstrikes 397 to 223.

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That puts us at the top of

1 minute ago, Lauren said:

The UK Government has voted FOR airstrikes 397 to 223.

That puts us at the top of the ISIS hit list, it is fine for Cameron to want to bomb Syria, he is surrounded by security all the time. Unfortunately the victims of terror will be us. Anyone who has been involved has had something terrible happen to their country. As a Londoner I am worried now more than before and if there is an attack and I see Cameron's mug on TV praying and thinking of the victims, I will be disgusted with him, as he knows how ISIS operate.

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1 minute ago, lassie23 said:

That puts us at the top of

That puts us at the top of the ISIS hit list, it is fine for Cameron to want to bomb Syria, he is surrounded by security all the time. Unfortunately the victims of terror will be us. Anyone who has been involved has had something terrible happen to their country. As a Londoner I am worried now more than before and if there is an attack and I see Cameron's mug on TV praying and thinking of the victims, I will be disgusted with him, as he knows how ISIS operate.

With respect, that's rubbish.  We were already almost certainly pretty high on their list, plus, all nations who are using or going to use airstrikes are equally likely to be the subject of an atrocity.

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11 minutes ago, lassie23 said:

That puts us at the top of

That puts us at the top of the ISIS hit list, it is fine for Cameron to want to bomb Syria, he is surrounded by security all the time. Unfortunately the victims of terror will be us. Anyone who has been involved has had something terrible happen to their country. As a Londoner I am worried now more than before and if there is an attack and I see Cameron's mug on TV praying and thinking of the victims, I will be disgusted with him, as he knows how ISIS operate.

And you think we weren't under threat already, even before tonight's vote?

A policy of internment should be brought in to lock up the dangerous ones in our midst. The intelligence services know who theydy are.

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You forget the innocent Syrian people who will be killed by this. IS enjoy putting civilians in buildings they know will get bombed. They use them as human shields. I think the poor people have suffered enough and yet we think we've got it bad.

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1 minute ago, Lauren said:

You forget the innocent Syrian people who will be killed by this. IS enjoy putting civilians in buildings they know will get bombed. They use them as human shields. I think the poor people have suffered enough and yet we think we've got it bad.

There would be innocent civilians killed anyway, even if we do nothing. 

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That's true, but our hands would have been clean. Now they will be tainted, we will have contributed to their suffering, when we could have handled the takedown of IS in a much better way.

 

 

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1 minute ago, chrisbell-nottheweatherman said:

There would be innocent civilians killed anyway, even if we do nothing. 

At least it wouldn't be us killing them though, anyway, decision is made now, if it goes wrong it will be something those who voted yes will have to live with. So for their sanity I hope these strikes do what is intended.

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Just now, Lauren said:

That's true, but our hands would have been clean. Now they will be tainted, we will have contributed to their suffering, when we could have handled the takedown of IS in a much better way.

If IS can be driven-out of Syria, we'll be helping save innumerable lives.

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6 minutes ago, chrisbell-nottheweatherman said:

If IS can be driven-out of Syria, we'll be helping save innumerable lives.

Because the airstrikes since 2014 have made so much difference. Us adding a few more bombs isn't going to change that.

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Just now, Lauren said:

Because the airstrikes since 2014 have made so much difference. Us adding a few more bombs isn't going to change that.

 

Hence why my OP in this discussion mentioned that I think that only a full-blown ground offensive  has a chance of solving the problem.

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I'm sorry, but this all seems just too damn rushed and ill thought out. How is this any different to the invasion of Iraq 14 years ago? Nothing got better. Not here, not Europe, and certainly not the middle-east and north Africa.

Then there are major issues about getting into a spat with Russia or Iran, it's utter madness that we should be going to war 'again' with no plan and no timescale.

 

Russia is doing a good enough job about weeding out daesh as it is, I mean, who have thought Turkey was in the fold with daesh?

 

This invasion is not going to stop terrorism, it's going to make it worse, the past has proved that over and over again.

 

BTW, who makes money out of this war? 

 

 

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what's the point..it will achieve nothing..except to increase the amount terrorism aimed at the UK..complete nonsense,,this is exactly what the extremists want and we have played straight into their hands.

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We need to cut off their money, they unfortunately have a lot of revenue coming in to finance their view of the world. How we do that, airstrikes, ground troops, sitting around a table taking (no, I'm not convinced the last one would work with them) is the question and better people than I can work it out. 

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