Winter 2015/16

[Nick L]

True but you disagreed, you said collectively we cope well, maybe you should say that we don't but there's not much you can do rather than we cope well. London 09 another eg.

 

I probably phrased it badly. I meant that the authorities generally don't cope badly with it. There are instances where they're caught out of course, but on the whole I think they deal with winter weather reasonably well. It's only the high profile snow events where things go belly up, but given the resources available to them they're fighting a losing battle sometimes.

[cheese]

If you go to Helsinki or Stockholm during the first snowfall, there will be chaos - no question about it. People even in the snowiest climates are often caught off-guard by the first snowfall.. but in these climates, the snow is likely to stick around most of the winter, so it's a case of deal with it or shut down for 3 months, whereas in the UK, our snowfalls are usually short-lived, unless it's 1962/1963. That's why Stockholm Arlanda airport has state-of-the-art snow  removal equipment, but London Heathrow does not.. and to be honest you'd find it hard to justify the cost for a 2009-type snowfall that only occurs every few years.

 

Snow chaos in Finland, after a surprise heavy snowfall:

 

 

Like Nick says, the authorities do well - it's usually the general public causing the problems.

Edited October 16, 2015 by cheese

[cheeky_monkey]

If you go to Helsinki or Stockholm during the first snowfall, there will be chaos - no question about it. People even in the snowiest climates are often caught off-guard by the first snowfall.. but in these climates, the snow is likely to stick around most of the winter, so it's a case of deal with it or shut down for 3 months, whereas in the UK, our snowfalls are usually short-lived, unless it's 1962/1963. That's why Stockholm Arlanda airport has state-of-the-art snow  removal equipment, but London Heathrow does not.. and to be honest you'd find it hard to justify the cost for a 2009-type snowfall that only occurs every few years.

exactly..this also true for Canada..chaos ensue when snow first strikes for a few days then it becomes the norm for the rest of winter.

[feb1991blizzard]

I probably phrased it badly. I meant that the authorities generally don't cope badly with it. There are instances where they're caught out of course, but on the whole I think they deal with winter weather reasonably well. It's only the high profile snow events where things go belly up, but given the resources available to them they're fighting a losing battle sometimes.

 

 

TBH I think its very regionalised, since I've been here they've coped really well (2010 July), but I'm wandering if that's only because in 09/10 this place got crippled and I'm wondering if that taught them a lesson or not, they do have snow warning signs up all the year round and just turn the flashing light on to tell you to prepare to stop in x distance, if anyone wonders about the trans pennine routes by the way it isn't worth the bother of carring on if a light is flashing, it says the road is closed (technically its not - they cant stop you driving further) but they are there for a reason and you will just run straight into a 7ft drift if you carry on.

who does cope well?

 

Refer you to my reply to Nick L. (The Pennines considering how much snow there is)

[Nick L]

The problem is people only remember the events where chaos ensues thanks to cold and snow. In many areas, the gritters are out most nights in the depths of winter (if it's clear and calm with an air temp of 3c or below, then the chances are they're gritting) and in the majority of cases they do the job well. It's like how the public perceive weather forecasts to be "always wrong" - of course they're not, but people only tend to remember when it goes wrong.

[Methuselah]

 

Refer you to my reply to Nick L. (The Pennines considering how much snow there is)

The same is true of the Scottish Highlands. But, as it snows every single year (even 1989!) what else would one expect!

[feb1991blizzard]

The difference between the lower ground of the Manchester suburbs and the Pennines really is quite frightening in terms of snow. Between Sep 2008 and May 2015, my school/sixth form was up in Oldham (which actually isn't that high compared to some of the hills) and there had been many occasions where Failsworth had just had hours of rain and Oldham had a full night of heavy snow, leaving a good foot of it behind. I eventually came to learn that even if there was a slight dusting here in Failsworth, to not even bother to waste my time trying to get up to Oldham, as we would always be thrown in a room for 2-3 hours, just be told that we could go home.

 

Yes, definitely, its not just elevation its the rugged topography around here, believe it or not the once (around Friday 27th Jan 2012), my mate drove to Oldham and it was raining here (bare in mind this is further East and North, Very rural and only a tiny bit lower than Oldham town centre), then really heavy snow over the A62 but was amazed it didn't turn back to rain when I got to Oldham (it was wet snow), then got back up A62 and blizzard conditions again, then came back into this valley and Nothing had settled at all and just sleety rain, went back again to the moterway via Oldham and blizzard again, soon turned to rain though towards Manchester.

[feb1991blizzard]

The problem is people only remember the events where chaos ensues thanks to cold and snow. In many areas, the gritters are out most nights in the depths of winter (if it's clear and calm with an air temp of 3c or below, then the chances are they're gritting) and in the majority of cases they do the job well. It's like how the public perceive weather forecasts to be "always wrong" - of course they're not, but people only tend to remember when it goes wrong.

 

Agree but its not hard to forecast what weather on a nighttime with a great big high over us in January, the problem is snow is a very hard weather type to forecast accurately for a given location in this country but unfortunately, that's when you most need a bang on the money forecast.

[Methuselah]

A man (this is true!) called 999 to say that his snowman had been stolen. It had melted!  

[Hocus Pocus]

Yep, exactly. People often overestimate the power of gritting. It's pretty useless when it comes to heavy snowfall.

During the winter of 09/10 our council ran out of grit and left many roads impassable for weeks on end, but this wasn't the fault of the council or gritting teams but more down to the fact we simply don't have the resources anymore to cope with prolonged spells of cold.

[feb1991blizzard]

I actually find that the 1-inch dustings are the most aggravating and make me hate it. They are just as disruptive as 3-foot dumpings, but are barely notable events - I mean, you only have to stand on the snow and you can see the floor through it, yet the roads and transport etc are just as screwed up.

 

I know I moan about snow and do have a bit of a dis-taste for it, but if we didn't get these crappy dustings so often, and actually had proper dumpings, then I actually wouldn't mind it as much, because at least it is a notable event. Winter 2009-10 actually ironically lies very close to me, before the annoying dustings of March 2013 (the weather in that month just annoyed me in general to be honest) and January 2015 ruined it (as well as the near car-crash incident too)

 

These are a few pictures I got in Dec 2009-Jan 2010 and early Feb 2012:

 

100_0811.JPG 100_0816.JPG 100_0817.JPG IMGP0028.JPG IMGP0030.JPG

 

 

I got a proper dumping in Late March 2013.

[Nick L]

During the winter of 09/10 our council ran out of grit and left many roads impassable for weeks on end, but this wasn't the fault of the council or gritting teams but more down to the fact we simply don't have the resources anymore to cope with prolonged spells of cold.

 

And as mentioned by others earlier, it simply isn't worth the cost of getting more resources in as it's such a rare event for so much grit to be needed. More than 9 times out of 10 the resources available will be plenty enough to cope.

[Dancerwithwings]

I got a proper dumping in Late March 2013.

Best ever spring snowfall 24cm in my back yard

[Hocus Pocus]

And as mentioned by others earlier, it simply isn't worth the cost of getting more resources in as it's such a rare event for so much grit to be needed. More than 9 times out of 10 the resources available will be plenty enough to cope.

In a way yes but this was never a problem during the 70's which saw some very mild winters mixed in-between the colder ones, I think a lot of this is down to our perception that winters would be milder and cold winters would become rarer, that and a lack of investment.

[Daniel*]

I think in Feb 2009 there a was a crippling Thames streamer that was fun lol!

One of those rare times when everything went to a standstill in capital when snow is exceptionally heavy nothing can really be done all you can do is sit back and marvel at the beauty. Lovely where's my snow?

[Nick L]

In a way yes but this was never a problem during the 70's which saw some very mild winters mixed in-between the colder ones, I think a lot of this is down to our perception that winters would be milder and cold winters would become rarer, that and a lack of investment.

 

I suspect the huge increase in cars on the road in the 40 years since then has a lot to do with it too.

[Met4Cast]

I think in Feb 2009 there a was a crippling Thames streamer that was fun lol!

One of those rare times when everything went to a standstill in capital when snow is exceptionally heavy nothing can really be done all you can do is sit back and marvel at the beauty. Lovely where's my snow?

 

I remember that event well, mainly because I got sod all. Sitting in the North Kent coast I was in the perfect position, the streamer was going over me for much of the night but because of how the atmosphere was that night I only got a couple of inches of grauple whilst London got feet of the proper snow. Very, very frustrating night!

 

November 2010 Streamer made up for it with 1.5 feet of snow here, though

[Stormyking]

December 2010 and to some extent 2013 was 2 of my favourite years, it will take alot to beat December 2010, The fact it started snowing  around 8:30pm, which fell onto our already thames streamer dusting from that Morning, I remember watching that of snow band moving in so so clearly, it started, then looked out the window an hour later and already had 4 inches of level snow, little did I know this snow falling was gonna last until 4:30 that next Afternoon! places on island averaged 10 inches of level snow, some upto just over a foot, with 6 foot drifts!

 

If this winter we get even a 1/4 or half of it, Ill be over the moon!

[Dean E]

December 2010 and to some extent 2013 was 2 of my favourite years, it will take alot to beat December 2010, The fact it started snowing  around 8:30pm, which fell onto our already thames streamer dusting from that Morning, I remember watching that of snow band moving in so so clearly, it started, then looked out the window an hour later and already had 4 inches of level snow, little did I know this snow falling was gonna last until 4:30 that next Afternoon! places on island averaged 10 inches of level snow, some upto just over a foot, with 6 foot drifts!

 

If this winter we get even a 1/4 or half of it, Ill be over the moon!

 

I remember this well too, in fact I was travelling back from Nottingham University that evening for the end of term and was trying to beat the snow. Got as far as Guildford before the train stopped and wouldn't go any further. Was a an incredibly long and eventful trip home. Was even expecting Portsmouth to be raining heavily, but I was shocked to see more snow there than further north!

[Daniel*]

Paul S made a great technical thread regarding that Thames streamer in Feb, 2009.

https://forum.netweather.tv/topic/53635-thames-snow-streamer-event-12nd-feb-2009/

Good read

[Hocus Pocus]

I suspect the huge increase in cars on the road in the 40 years since then has a lot to do with it too.

I was about to add that Nick as I think that also plays a major part in the chaos  we now see during any cold periods.

[cheese]

I got a proper dumping in Late March 2013.

As did I. It was one of the best events I personally recall.

[Mokidugway]

Haven't had a good dump in four years suffering from snow constipation I guess ......

[moorlander]

On the transport issue during a snow fall two things come to mind one recent the other from my childhood.

 

We have taken on some new staff at my place of work over the last six months, one of them asked me do they have to phone in if it snows.

I asked them how far away they lived, to which I was told 2 1/2 miles, I then told them that they would have to walk in. The look of horror on his face was very interesting to see. Yes you have legs and yes they are usable. 

 

Long before health and safety I remember a guy who used to get to work on a small moped, his way of doing it was to bolt on a pair of home made skies to the front and wrap a chain around the back wheel. Those not lucky enough to have transport caught the bus if running or walked if not. 

[Nick L]

On the transport issue during a snow fall two things come to mind one recent the other from my childhood.

 

We have taken on some new staff at my place of work over the last six months, one of them asked me do they have to phone in if it snows.

I asked them how far away they lived, to which I was told 2 1/2 miles, I then told them that they would have to walk in. The look of horror on his face was very interesting to see. Yes you have legs and yes they are usable. 

 

Long before health and safety I remember a guy who used to get to work on a small moped, his way of doing it was to bolt on a pair of home made skies to the front and wrap a chain around the back wheel. Those not lucky enough to have transport caught the bus if running or walked if not. 

 

Barmy...that's half an hour walk tops.