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Paul

UK Politics May 2015 Onward

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Who said it would be the easiest deal in history and has now said this to Faisal Islam.

“There has never been a period where government has been asked to do such complex things as we are being to do around Brexit , disentangle  Britain after 40 years .”

So basically Liam Fox has woken upto reality after spending the last two years in denial .

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24 minutes ago, nick sussex said:

Who said it would be the easiest deal in history and has now said this to Faisal Islam.

“There has never been a period where government has been asked to do such complex things as we are being to do around Brexit , disentangle  Britain after 40 years .”

So basically Liam Fox has woken upto reality after spending the last two years in denial .

He and the Conservative party should get on with it Nick , it got put to the 🗳 vote and the question was answered their can be no pandering about now , or of course they can u turn and be finished as a party , it was always likely to come to it , the question is have they got the stomach to see things through ( although they haven’t really started yet )  , so far it’s a resounding No , it’s not up to the brexiteer voters to find a solution it’s up to those brexiteer politicians to see through what they promised in the first place , ie , no deal walk away and WTO at the end of it , all this was doomed and quite apparent from the first couple of months after the vote .  If we are to see a true brexit and I still do, we need someone at the helm to have conviction , with the same token if there is not one lets have the gonads to say we’ve got no one up for  the Job . 

Edited by Mark wheeler
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40 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

Yep they are changing me over to that in July, really looking forward to having nothing for a month.

You mean like most people who work get paid a month in arrears, 

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8 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

Yep they are changing me over to that in July, really looking forward to having nothing for a month.

With all due respect the world does not owe you a living and if you are struggling to make ends meet then I have every right to ask what have you been doing all your life to find yourself in that situation?

I do not have any private pensions or my wife.  I am currently retired with a poor state pension and my wife works only 6 hours a week as a carer and could do more but her health prevents that.  She is not of a pension age for another 3 years. We receive no pension credit at all and have to use our savings to supplement our income.

Our house is paid for through sheer hard work and every spare pound we worked for we saved knowing that old age would be a hardship.  I would be out on weekends carrying tiles up a ladder while some of my lazier friends would be in the pub and then spend the rest of the day sleeping it off on the settee.

We worked hard and sacrificed holidays to save and never involved ourselves with HP if we couldn't afford it we didn't have it.

Fortunately we are now very comfortably off and enjoying the fruits of our labour.  What does make me angry is when those friends visit and say " aren't you lucky to have such a beautiful home" Luck only played a part in us enjoying good health to enable us to achieve what we did.  Health of course is another issue and those that are unable to earn should be given all the support available.

You reap what you sow in life.  When I see the hardship and poverty in some countries my heart goes out to them and my wife and I do a lot for overseas charities. Then I reflect on the whinging of some people who are constantly belittling our country and I say to myself you don't know how fortunate you are to be living here.

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3 council by-elections today in Devon, Oxfordshire and Stafford. All 3 are being defended by the Tories. 

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16 minutes ago, Wiltshire_snow_lover said:
18 minutes ago, Wiltshire_snow_lover said:

You mean like most people who work get paid a month in arrears, 

Something's gone wrong with quote

All I've done is to be found fit for work when I can't even walk straight, have swollowing difficulties, and other problems as well, with my ms. Hopefully the mandatory whatever thing, will overturn that. But if not, my kids are goner have one lovely summer holiday, because of a few idiots, who used to play the system. I used to do four different part time jobs a day once, your lazy stronger retoric, is not right about me or the majority, come to that.

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26 minutes ago, kent said:

With all due respect the world does not owe you a living and if you are struggling to make ends meet then I have every right to ask what have you been doing all your life to find yourself in that situation?

I do not have any private pensions or my wife.  I am currently retired with a poor state pension and my wife works only 6 hours a week as a carer and could do more but her health prevents that.  She is not of a pension age for another 3 years. We receive no pension credit at all and have to use our savings to supplement our income.

Our house is paid for through sheer hard work and every spare pound we worked for we saved knowing that old age would be a hardship.  I would be out on weekends carrying tiles up a ladder while some of my lazier friends would be in the pub and then spend the rest of the day sleeping it off on the settee.

We worked hard and sacrificed holidays to save and never involved ourselves with HP if we couldn't afford it we didn't have it.

Fortunately we are now very comfortably off and enjoying the fruits of our labour.  What does make me angry is when those friends visit and say " aren't you lucky to have such a beautiful home" Luck only played a part in us enjoying good health to enable us to achieve what we did.  Health of course is another issue and those that are unable to earn should be given all the support available.

You reap what you sow in life.  When I see the hardship and poverty in some countries my heart goes out to them and my wife and I do a lot for overseas charities. Then I reflect on the whinging of some people who are constantly belittling our country and I say to myself you don't know how fortunate you are to be living here.

Tried to add this to my other post, my reply is above.

Edited by alexisj9

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4 hours ago, Bristle boy said:

Re your post this afternoon expecting an apology here is your post from last night quoting the term 'of colour'.

And for others that leapt to your defence it shows how tribal it has become in this thread, especially as a few didnt think the term is offensive. I've never bought into the totally PC bandwagon, but even i know terms like 'of colour' were deemed offensive decades ago....well before PC became 'fashionable'.

Game set and match!

His absence confirms this. lol.

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11 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

All I've done is to be found fit for work when I can't even walk straight, have swollowing difficulties, and other problems as well, with my ms. Hopefully the mandatory whatever thing, will overturn that. But if not, my kids are goner have one lovely summer holiday, because of a few idiots, who used to play the system. I used to do four different part time jobs a day once, your lazy stronger retoric, is not right about me or the majority, come to that.

I have not said your work shy, All i said is like people who work, You will be paid monthly in arrears so do not see what the issue is.

Edited by Wiltshire_snow_lover

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12 minutes ago, Wiltshire_snow_lover said:

I have not said your work shy, All i said is like people who work, You will be paid monthly in arrears so do not see what the issue is.

I'll be failed to do something a normally wouldn't ever dream of doing, take a loan from the government that needs to be paid back, will put my family in trouble for a couple of years, I know for most that's normal life these days, that is the problem , no one is managing whether on benefits or not. Something has gone very wrong with our whole system, and to be honest I can't see how it can be fixed. I know what won't fix it though, but I suppose brexit is a form of hope for some.

PS I meant to quote Kent, who went into the old retoric that caused this change in the first place.

The realnproblem for me is it will be the summer holidays, and rather than taking my kids to the beach, or park, we'll all be sitting in doors starving, timing is bad, glad it's not Christmas.

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16 minutes ago, DAVID SNOW said:

Game set and match!

His absence confirms this. lol.

I don't think his attempt to portray England in particular as a nation reliant on food banks helped either.

If anyone needed to apologise then it should be him for all the misleading and grossly exaggerated posts to convince posters that we are all screwed big time and will soon be living in ghost towns having to dodge the tumbleweed as we go out scavenging for food.

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5 hours ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Dave..

 Love to read the data, but nothing comes up on the link  for me.

 

I see Daveshg doubts the numbers again.

Try and work out the amount we have paid for the last 43 years.

 I know the exact amount. If inflation is applied it will give you nearly 250 billion that has been given to Brussels.

MIA

 

Hello again MIA

I have now made another attempt at copying and posting the link.

If it does not work please go into Google and type "EU funding of projects in Britain"

https://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/business-funding/eu-funding/examples_en

Kind Regards

Dave

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5 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

I'll be failed to do something a normally wouldn't ever dream of doing, take a loan from the government that needs to be paid back, will put my family in trouble for a couple of years, I know for most that's normal life these days, that is the problem , no one is managing whether on benefits or not. Something has gone very wrong with our whole system, and to be honest I can't see how it can be fixed. I know what won't fix it though, but I suppose brexit is a form of hope for some.

PS I meant to quote Kent, who went into the old retoric that caused this change in the first place.

The realnproblem for me is it will be the summer holidays, and rather than taking my kids to the beach, or park, we'll all be sitting in doors starving, timing is bad, glad it's not Christmas.

I am truly sorry for your predicament alexis but if you read my post I did say that those who are not able to earn due to health reasons should be given all the available support.  It sounds to me that you are saying you are not  able bodied to work sufficiently and doctors and the state are disagreeing with their opinions. All I can say is you keep badgering them until you get the result you need.  Sometimes through all the work load the state has to get through its often the case when you are simply forgotten.

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1 hour ago, Mark wheeler said:

He and the Conservative party should get on with it Nick , it got put to the 🗳 vote and the question was answered their can be no pandering about now , or of course they can u turn and be finished as a party , it was always likely to come to it , the question is have they got the stomach to see things through ( although they haven’t really started yet )  , so far it’s a resounding No , it’s not up to the brexiteer voters to find a solution it’s up to those brexiteer politicians to see through what they promised in the first place , ie , no deal walk away and WTO at the end of it , all this was doomed and quite apparent from the first couple of months after the vote .  If we are to see a true brexit and I still do, we need someone at the helm to have conviction , with the same token if there is not one lets have the gonads to say we’ve got no one up for  the Job . 

What is a true Brexit ?

The problem is even Leave voters can’t decide. Regardless of what they were told they voted for by Mogg and others .

Just after the vote polling was done asking for expectations of what Brexit would deliver .

This shows a mix of opinions from both Leavers and Remainers . A minority of Leavers thought it meant leaving the single market .

The fact that some politicians are now telling people they voted unanimously to leave both the single market  and customs union isn’t based on reality .

I wouldn’t appreciate my Remain vote being hijacked to join the Euro so why would some Leavers who expected to stay in the single market be happy to have their vote used to deliver that .

Edited by nick sussex
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I don't doubt any numbers MIA, it's your use of the word "syphoned", which is, of course, another one of your standard lies.

Face facts, you're losing Brexit. You won the referendum, got greedy, bet it all & you've lost. You've already done so much damage to the economy, that since you & others here are so fond of not getting something "free" from the state, you should all be billed for the cost, and the traitorous lying leaders of the Brexit campaign should be jailed for fraud.

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11 minutes ago, nick sussex said:

What is a true Brexit ?

We will never find out because one will not happen , if you are leaving a club that has perks you have to walk away completely you cant keep wafting around like a bad smell , either  your out or in , in my voting intentions it was out. 

 

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UK moving towards a dictatorship if so.

Unelected English politicians to just go ahead and legislate for Scotland and N. Ireland, undoing the results of democratic elections / referendums.

Who cares if you only got 22% in the election, just try to 'take back control' of the powers.

EDIT

Seems UN international peace agreements which ended decades of bloodshed are just 'letting the tail wag the bulldog' too.

 

Edited by scottish skier
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13 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

UK moving towards a dictatorship if so.

Unelected English politicians to just go ahead and legislate for Scotland and N. Ireland, undoing the results of democratic elections / referendums.

Who cares if you only got 22% in the election, just try to 'take back control' of the powers.

EDIT

Seems UN international peace agreements which ended decades of bloodshed are just 'letting the tail wag the bulldog' too.

 

Saor Alba!

...for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom – for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

Declaration of Arbroath 1320.

 

 

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The sun is putting two fingers up at may tonight

 

and the times, Yes its time to take the fight to the remainers and stop the betrayal

Mail also backing BOJO

 

Edited by Wiltshire_snow_lover
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6 hours ago, Bristle boy said:

Re your post this afternoon expecting an apology here is your post from last night quoting the term 'of colour'.

And for others that leapt to your defence it shows how tribal it has become in this thread, especially as a few didnt think the term is offensive. I've never bought into the totally PC bandwagon, but even i know terms like 'of colour' were deemed offensive decades ago....well before PC became 'fashionable'.

I see a grudging half admission I didn't use the term at all, but simply quoted it. A completely different thing, particularly in the context.

I lived in remote Africa for 5 years BB and my wife was born / grew up there. For the past 18 years I've worked in oil and gas, so of course loads of my colleagues are African in origin. I probably work in the most African bit of Scotland outside of Dyce. 

It truly was comical to have you giving me lessons on the how to describe their skin colour to them appropriately in modern England. Personally, I had been calling them 'piccaninnies with watermelon smiles' as that's what the English Tory Foreign Secretary calls them (while they're being deported).

Anyway, I hope you looked up inverted commas (also 'sarcasm'), ergo will not make the same mistake again, and we can all move on. 🙂

Edited by scottish skier
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As noted in the shortbread thread, for the first time ever, the yearly academic Scottish social attitudes survey by Sir prof Curtice et al. finds Scots now see independence as economically the better option.

Independence has also become the most popular constitutional option of 3 (indy, devo, no devo) as of brexit vote, with immediate indy 50/50 statistically.

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Stupid new imaging format - I give up!

 

Edited by frogesque

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2 hours ago, kent said:

Friends?

They are resorting to every dirty trick to see us fall.  Even yesterday they said  "Brussels has announced that it will refuse help of the UKs military after Brexit with British staff being told that their current roles will not be needed"

Fine don't come running to us when you need help. We should reciprocate by saying Britain should henceforth claim neutrality in all European wars or threats unless they directly involve a commonwealth partner.  We should withdraw all our troops from Europe and the USA should do the same.

A recent poll taken in Turkey showed that a massive 87% considered the EU to be their enemy.

I recently went on a 12 day cruise to Spain Portugal and the Canaries and being a smoker I spent many evenings on deck where all the smokers assembled.  The topic of the EU often came up with all nationalities and guess what the absolute majority hated the EU. Remember before the referendum Leavers were saying that they hardly ever met people who were going to vote to stay in.  That was dismissed as laughable too.

The EU is nowhere near as cherished in the real world and the infatuation with it on this thread is more to do with somehow appearing to look more wordly amongst the circles you move in.

Leaving our friends in the lurch.  When it comes to business its dog eat dog and up until now our mealey Government has been too soft with this bunch of money grabbers.

 

I will remind you again in case you have forgotten - it was the decision of HM Gov to decide to leave the EU, not the other way round  but the UK brexit team are going in with the attitude that it is the EU which have to do the running - they don't have to do anything other than try to protect the interests of the other 27.

You speak of dirty tricks: 

1) We have gone into the referendum countless times but it was full of dirty tricks by the leavers. 

2) The referendum was advisory and not mandatory, so its result should have gone to parliament for a decision, but instead Theresa May stood outside No 10, saying Brexit means brexit, not allowing the proper opportunity for it to be debated properly. The reason why she did this was obvious to me - she saw it as a potential 17.2 million voters who would help keep her and her party in power. This was without a proper mandate because she was never vot5ed into that office by her party or the country 0- she was simply the last horse standing.

3) She attempted to try and get executive powers for the handling of brexit rather than our legislative body parliament have a proper debate and decision - an order which went on appeal to the Supreme Court had to be obtained to stop her. It went to parliament, however a free vote was not allowed as it should have been - Mrs May continued to coerce, bully and whip other MPs into submission - Corbyn got involved because he had his own axe to grind was guilty of similar tactics.

4) Not so much a dirty trick but stupid - article 50 was triggered without even the basis of an outline plan, effectively in theory giving us just two years to complete.

5) Another misjudged one - although the tories already had a majority this was good enough for her - she decided to go to the country in an attempt to increase this to gain both the power and a mandate - it fell flat with her losing her overall majority.

6) She still remained in office even without the majority or an effective mandate on the grounds that her p[arty still had the most seats.

7) She set about re-organising the committees in such a way that her party had a majority - it became quite clear when Davis first of all didn't have papers, ten he had them, then he didn't have them, then he had them again. A complaint was put forward in respect of trying to misleads parliament and it went before one those committees to decide. Guess what it was a committee with a conservative majority and they found he had not tried to mislead parliament when it appeared quite obvious to most of the country that he had.

8/ Realising that she had lost her majority she went on bended knee to the DUP and a promise of a £billion of our tax payer's money as a bribe for them to shore up her voting in parliament, thus giving the conservative government a direct interest in the overseeing of the GFE when it should remain as one of the three impartial overseers of this agreement. At the same time a nurse asked Mrs May for a pay rise and was told that money did not grow on trees. 

9) Since then there has been various other ducking and diving in connection with the EU negotiations - the right wing press who work very closely with the government in a you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours arrangement, have tried to belittle, drown out, silence, ridicule and insult people, including judges, lords and anybody else who had the audacity to oppose the brexit policy which appeared to have been brought down from Mount Sinai engraved on tablets of stone. 

10) Initially she had promised the Scots a meaningful part in the negotiations but reneged on that. 

In short she has been trying every way she can to try and thwart any opposition to her plans by using the maxim that the result justified the means. However she is not making a good job of it - by degrees she is having to back track.

I have never been so appalled in all my life I have been and still am by the antics of this matter to date and it is not because our side lost - if the leave side had won it fair and square we on our side would have accepted it. What has upset the remainers so much as that your side cheated in the referendum and you have continued to cheat ever since. 

I have spent most of my adult life fighting injustice and when we see what are supposed to be pillars of society indulging in such injustice I fight back hard.

Perhaps if karma works out the way we are told it sometimes does  the leavers will have a shock and I'll give them the same amount of sympathy which they have extended to me and the other remainers which will be zilch. On the other hand those leavers who recant will have the hand of friendship offered to them.

Anecdotes on the smoking deck of a cruise liner don't really count for very much, especially on the scanty information you have given. 

Though you are quite right that when it comes to business it is a dog eat dog world, that's what I am constantly trying to warn you of when it comes to brexit. 

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7 hours ago, alexisj9 said:

Just wondering, are the disabled and sick forced to work too.

itts not about being forced to work..its about being self reliant the disabled are given every bit of help to work and encouraged to do so

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51 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

itts not about being forced to work..its about being self reliant the disabled are given every bit of help to work and encouraged to do so

Whilst thats true in some cases, I've seen the DWP really take the mick in others. There are people who are completely immobile, brain damaged etc. They'd force a blind person to take a job as a tour guide and an epileptic as a chauffeur

 

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