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Paul

UK Politics May 2015 Onward

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I worry that the problems at Aston Villa, those at the very top playing Russian Roulette with other folks' money/livelihoods, are a microcosmic analogue of what's happening with Brexit: those at the bottom stand to lose everything whilst those at the top do a Fred the Shred, and get off scot free!:angry:

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49 minutes ago, Mark wheeler said:

Not directly linked to your post above SS but when I saw your post with David Lammy it made me think 💭, I have never seen a representative from the SNP that was anything other than white, a quick search reveals two that are not  , which surprised me as Scotland is now a open to immigration and also surely has large amounts of black citizens, I’m surprised ,Why is the party set up like this in such a diverse country? , if this is the case why on face value ( and i am willing to stand corrected ) have the snp not got more people representing them that are non white , The Conservative party and indeed the Labour Party both have no problem in this aspect and is something until today that I have never thought about ?. Indeed on more reflection there should be more ethnic minority representation in England but it seems this is an issue.

https://www.snp.org/your_team

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_minority_politicians_in_the_United_Kingdom

Skin colour is important to you?

This shouldn't be a concern really unless there is a specific reason to be concerned.

I must admit I've never thought to analyse skin colour of SNP politicians, members etc.

What I can say is in polling of minority groups, including those 'of colour' (I assume as they come from e.g. SE asia etc), the SNP is the most popular party by a country mile.

We don't have a lot of people of African or Afro-Caribbean origin; just the way things happened. Our migrant groups were more Indian / Pakistani, polish, Italian originally. And of course a very large quotient of Irish and most recently, mass migration of English. Total = 17% non-Scottish (born) migrants.

I'd say the SNP reflects this diversity of nationalities / cultures pretty well.

But I've never honestly gone through and counted the 'brown' ones.

 

EDIT

That aside, I'd personally judge a party's attitude to the issue (of migration, racial equality etc) by their policies rather than counting the brown ones. If we are down to 'but some of my best mates are brown' we have to ask why such a defense is being made.🙂

 

Edited by scottish skier
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12 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Skin colour is important to you?

This shouldn't be a concern really unless there is a specific reason to be concerned.

I must admit I've never thought to analyse skin colour of SNP politicians.

What I can say is in polling of minority groups, including those 'of colour' (I assume as they come from e.g. SE asia etc), the SNP is the most popular party by a country mile.

 

Just a quick question and words of your post really as got be wondering    since when has the term those of colour been in vogue ?  I SEE it everywhere  on here on Twitter on the tv    are we not all "those of colour  just various shaded  of black or white   and if not will there be enough room on any application form to write person of no colour  I only ask as I have always told my son to identify people who are black as black rather than when I was younger I was told to say coloured  if it' changing again I need to inform my son again as not to cause offence   thanks in advance  

Edited by weirpig
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8 minutes ago, weirpig said:

Just a quick question and words of your post really as got be wondering    since when has the term those of colour been in vogue ?  I SEE it everywhere  on here on Twitter on the tv    are we not all "those of colour  just various shaded  of black or white   I only ask as I have always told my son to identify people who are black as black rather than when I was younger I was told to say coloured  if it' changing again I need to inform my son again as not to cause offence   thanks in advance  

I think that's a reasonable catch all term for those who don't burn within 15 mins in the sun like me?

Personally I always thought the term black was odd as black people are brown. And 'yellow men' aren't yellow, but look the same colour as many Europeans (white as fk brits aside). Red people are not red either! Also, whitish-pink is a colour is it not?

I honestly don't know if there is some better PC term going at the moment. Because I'm not racist I can comfortably use pretty much all terms and nobody gets stressed. I'd have to add swear words in or something just ahead of these terms to start raising surprised eyebrows. It's one of the great benefits of not being racist; you can chat about the subject freely. I honestly don't know who the PC brigade are, although I imagine if I was racist they'd appear soon enough. 

 

Edited by scottish skier

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24 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Skin colour is important to you?

This shouldn't be a concern really unless there is a specific reason to be concerned.

I must admit I've never thought to analyse skin colour of SNP politicians, members etc.

What I can say is in polling of minority groups, including those 'of colour' (I assume as they come from e.g. SE asia etc), the SNP is the most popular party by a country mile.

We don't have a lot of people of African or Afro-Caribbean origin; just the way things happened. Our migrant groups were more Indian / Pakistani, polish, Italian originally. And of course a very large quotient of Irish and most recently, mass migration of English. Total = 17% non-Scottish (born) migrants.

I'd say the SNP reflects this diversity of nationalities / cultures pretty well.

But I've never honestly gone through and counted the 'brown' ones.

 

EDIT

That aside, I'd personally judge a party's attitude to the issue (of migration, racial equality etc) by their policies rather than counting the brown ones. If we are down to 'but some of my best mates are brown' we have to ask why such a defense is being made.🙂

 

Skin colour important- no not really I suppose, as I say I never noticed until I saw David Lammy in your post and thought why is it still unusual to have a black Mp that’s all then I thought hang on I can’t ever recall a black snp mp or in holyrood   , then I thought I can’t recall anything other than a  Scottish Mp , obviously broad brush in that statement , it’s my opinion and that’s all it is, is that if a party or company etc claim to represent  diversity etc in a party / country then it should reciprocate in such a way ,it just surprised me the snp does not seem to do so although it’s policies as you say suggest otherwise so shortly this will change .

Edited by Mark wheeler

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2 minutes ago, Mark wheeler said:

Skin colour important- no not really I suppose, as I say I never noticed until I saw David Lammy in your post and thought why is it still unusual to have a black Mp that’s all then I thought hang on I can’t ever recall a black snp mp or holyrood , then I thought I can’t recall anything other than a  Scottish Mp , obviously broad brush in that statement , it’s my opinion and that’s all it is, is that if a party or company etc claim to represent  diversity etc in a party / country then it should reciprocate in such a way ,it just surprised me the snp does not seem to do so although it’s policies as you say suggest otherwise so shortly this will change .

It is surprising  I mean Scotland as we have been told is very multicultural  a very welcoming tolerant society  just strange that there seems to be a lack of these people represented in this area   I'm sure there is some reason for it  perhaps they are all drunk on the milk of human kindness that exudes from Scottish society   

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30 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

That aside, I'd personally judge a party's attitude to the issue (of migration, racial equality etc) by their policies rather than counting the brown ones. If we are down to 'but some of my best mates are brown' we have to ask why such a defense is being made.🙂

You've got mates?

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19 minutes ago, Mark wheeler said:

Skin colour important- no not really I suppose, as I say I never noticed until I saw David Lammy in your post and thought why is it still unusual to have a black Mp that’s all then I thought hang on I can’t ever recall a black snp mp or in holyrood   , then I thought I can’t recall anything other than a  Scottish Mp , obviously broad brush in that statement , it’s my opinion and that’s all it is, is that if a party or company etc claim to represent  diversity etc in a party / country then it should reciprocate in such a way ,it just surprised me the snp does not seem to do so although it’s policies as you say suggest otherwise so shortly this will change .

Is it unusual to have non-white MPs in England?

We have very few black people in Scotland. There's quite a few brown SNP politicians. Mainly light brown as well, let's face it, it's hard to keep a tan in these parts. 

If that's helpful.

The SNP reflects the demographic make up of Scotland very well, including migrants. It would be kinda weird if it had loads of blacks as you'd wonder where they found these; Scotland just didn't end up with a lot of blacks migrating to it. SE Asians like the transport secretary by contrast don't stand out as, well, just visit e.g. Glasgow. We have Italian SNP, polish SNP, French SNP, English SNP...

SNP reflects Scotland. Labour is fairly reflective too. Tories would see the least reflective, although they are a niche party.

Migrants are obviously not necessarily of a distinct color. My wife is a migrant and well, she's sort of white. Goes browner than many brown people very quickly though in the sun though given her French origins. She's only really 'white' because she's been here 20 years!

13 minutes ago, weirpig said:

It is surprising  I mean Scotland as we have been told is very multicultural  a very welcoming tolerant society  just strange that there seems to be a lack of these people represented in this area   I'm sure there is some reason for it  perhaps they are all drunk on the milk of human kindness that exudes from Scottish society   

What has 'multicultural' got to do with skin colour?

Does a black English footballer who family has been here for decades have a different culture?

As noted, black people are rare as hen's teeth in Scotland. But we've loads of other types of migrants; they make up 17% of our population.

EDIT

If whites are not migrants, can we keep EU free movement? Surely the Polish are now not migrants by this definition?

Edited by scottish skier
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Seems to be complete Brexit chaos tonight. The "backstop" plan is going to Brussels, then it's not, Davis is resigning, then he's not. The latest seems to be it's being "held back", to "give Davis more of what he wants". Is anybody actually in charge?

Edited by davehsug
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3 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Is it unusual to have non-white MPs in England?

We have very few black people in Scotland. There's quite a few brown SNP politicians. Mainly light brown as well, let's face it, it's hard to keep a tan in these parts. 

If that's helpful.

The SNP reflects the demographic make up of Scotland very well, including migrants. It would be kinda weird if it had loads of blacks as you'd wonder where they found these; Scotland just didn't end up with a lot of blacks migrating to it. SE Asians like the transport secretary by contrast don't stand out as, well, just visit e.g. Glasgow. We have Italian SNP, polish SNP, French SNP, English SNP...

SNP reflects Scotland. Labour is fairly reflective too. Tories would see the least reflective, although they are a niche party.

Migrants are obviously not necessarily of a distinct color. My wife is a migrant and well, she's sort of white. Goes browner than many brown people very quickly though in the sun though given her French origins. She's only really 'white' because she's been here 20 years!

What has 'multicultural' got to do with skin colour?

Does a black English footballer who family has been here for decades have a different culture?

As noted, black people are rare as hen's teeth in Scotland. But we've loads of other types of migrants.

You have constantly told me that areas of Scotland have as much immigration as any area of England  (in regard to people from India pakistan)  yet here there are many  people in the political field  from this demographic  yet hardly any ( in comparison) in Scotland  I just find it strange  but I shouldn'  though as all national parties tend not to 

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2 hours ago, Ed Stone said:

What an 'orrible thought...in twenty-years' time, Britain's most popular names could be Chad, Chip and Junior!:shok:

Nearly right.   The most popular name in the UK is Mohammed.

In 20 years it will probably be Mohammed followed by Mohammed junior.

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22 minutes ago, weirpig said:

You have constantly told me that areas of Scotland have as much immigration as any area of England  (in regard to people from India pakistan)  yet here there are many  people in the political field  from this demographic  yet hardly any ( in comparison) in Scotland  I just find it strange  but I shouldn'  though as all national parties tend not to 

What do you not understand about Scotland = 17% Migrants.

I've never been anything other than completely straight up about the % and the different types.

What we have is weird situation where some English people think if they move to another country (with their different nationality, culture, language etc) they're somehow not migrants. 

That and Irish, Polish, Italian...white migrants suddenly are not migrants when it suits. One minute EU migrants are 'coming here taking our English jobs' and the next they're 'not really migrants when they come to Scotland as they're insufficiently brown'.

A migrant is a migrant. We have 17% migrants in Scotland. None of these qualify for non-migrant status, so we have same migrants % as England / the UK was whole.

If we are down to arguing migrants in Scotland are not really migrants because they're whiter on average, then we really are getting into pure and simple racism.

Edited by scottish skier
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47 minutes ago, weirpig said:

Just a quick question and words of your post really as got be wondering    since when has the term those of colour been in vogue ?  I SEE it everywhere  on here on Twitter on the tv    are we not all "those of colour  just various shaded  of black or white   and if not will there be enough room on any application form to write person of no colour  I only ask as I have always told my son to identify people who are black as black rather than when I was younger I was told to say coloured  if it' changing again I need to inform my son again as not to cause offence   thanks in advance  

Agreed Weirpig.

"Of colour" or "coloured" has been taboo for the last three decades when referring to Black immigrants or children of 'past immigrants'. Black is the term used these days to refer to those of Caribbean  or African heritage.

Probably proves the point that SS has no real everyday experience of living amongst people from different backgrounds - then again living in a hamlet on the English/Scot borders is a far cry from those of us living in or near a big UK city.

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Things must really be going bad for Brexit tonight as the Brexiteers on here gang up on Scottish Skier.

Somehow I think he'll be enjoying it.

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Just now, scottish skier said:

What do you not understand about Scotland = 17% Migrants.

I've never been anything other than completely straight up about the % and the different types.

What we have is weird situation where some English people think if they move to another country (with their different culture) they're somehow not migrants. 

That and Irish, Polish, Italian...white migrants suddenly are not migrants when it suits.

A migrant is a migrant. We have 17% migrants in Scotland. None of these qualify for non-migrant status, so we have same migrants % as England / the UK was whole.

If we are down to arguing migrants in Scotland are not really migrants because they're whiter on average, then we really are getting into pure and simple racism.

Tosh you have quoted many times regarding Muslim population density in areas of Glasgow etc  and how similar it compares to areas in England   yet the areas here have far more represetation in the political field  god knows why you are now spouting whites migrating and not being migrants   then chucking in the race card  

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14 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

Agreed Weirpig.

"Of colour" or "coloured" has been taboo for the last three decades when referring to Black immigrants or children of 'past immigrants'. Black is the term used these days to refer to those of Caribbean  or African heritage.

Probably proves the point that SS has no real everyday experience of living amongst people from different backgrounds - then again living in a hamlet on the English/Scot borders is a far cry from those of us living in or near a big UK city.

I work in the capital of Scotland.

My main office is a university. It's like the entire world in microcosm*. If you don't like furriners, you'd freeze in a paralyzed state of panic in it.*

Jeez BB you live in your own wee bubble.

It's not like I've not said this a gazillion times.

 

--

My other office oil and gas industry. It's more middle east dominated. Iranians in particular.

 

EDIT

What's the term for brown people? I mean people say from the middle east. Given you seem tae ken yer stuff.

'Browns'?

Edited by scottish skier

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2 minutes ago, mountain shadow said:

Things must really be going bad for Brexit tonight as the Brexiteers on here gang up on Scottish Skier.

Somehow I think he'll be enjoying it.

Nowt to do with Brexit. He has used an offensive description which is only one notch away from using the 'n' word.

Here is extracts from an article from The Independent 31 July 2017 penned by a black African woman (cant post actual link as on mobile):

Yes, us ‘non-whites’ face discrimination and are subjected to racially charged stereotypes, but when our experiences are summarised under one category it falsely suggests we face the same struggles.

Let’s get one thing straight. I am an African woman. I am not a “person of colour”.

In US history, “person of colour” referred to people of African heritage; today it’s used to cover all those of African, Asian, Latino heritage and so on – a verbal shorthand for all non-white people. 

The fact that us “non-whites” are lumped together into some absurd category of being “people of colour” further reinforces whiteness as the norm. It strips away our individual experiences, and instead decides the colour of our skin is what’s relevant.

There’s also another reason why this term is so distasteful when it is specifically used to describe black people. When I am called a “person of colour”, what I hear is being called a “coloured person” – a phrase that has only recently slipped out of common parlance. Apart from the N word, it is one of the most offensive terms used to describe a black person.

 

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8 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

Nowt to do with Brexit. He has used an offensive description which is only one notch away from using the 'n' word.

LOL

Absolutely LOL

Oh BB I'm going to retire with a big smile. 

Whit pish.

It's totally hilarious to have folks try to pin racism is on me.

Especially those that spend so much time attacking my 'wet pro-multiculturalism lefite free movement liberalism'.

EDIT

And oh man you are so PC brigade.

 

 

Edited by scottish skier

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Hows this for irony.

Labour has written a letter to the speaker regarding the safety of MPs if its a 3am Brexit vote to be held next week by suggesting that ministerial cars are laid on because London is too dangerous to travel through at that time of  night.

Oh so they don't want to experience the results they've created.

Instead of cars they should lay on mopeds and they'll fit in just fine.

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1 minute ago, scottish skier said:

LOL

Absolutely LOL

Oh BB I'm going to retire with a hug smile. 

Whit pish.

 

LOL all you like.

But your previous posts (plus this one)  proves you havent a clue about race. You like to think you have, but for someone as educated, intelligent and worldly as yourself it is a huge surprise you were/are unaware of any offensive nature of using the term "of colour" or "coloured" in the context of posts in last hour.

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7 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

LOL

Absolutely LOL

Oh BB I'm going to retire with a big smile. 

Whit pish.

It's totally hilarious to have folks try to pin racism is on me.

Especially those that spend so much time attacking my 'wet pro-multiculturalism lefite free movement liberalism'.

EDIT

And oh man you are so PC brigade.

 

 

I didnt even use the word "racism" or "racist" about you. I merely pointed out you are surprisingly ignorant of using the term "coloured".

Once again you presume people are calling you something they havent even mentioned. Your sub-conscious is working overtime.

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1 minute ago, Bristle boy said:

LOL all you like.

But your previous posts (plus this one)  proves you havent a clue about race. You like to think you have, but for someone as educated, intelligent and worldly as yourself it is a huge surprise you were/are unaware of any offensive nature of using the term "of colour" or "coloured" in the context of posts in last hour.

You think you are being clever about wording.

That's all.

Night night. Until next time! 🙂 👍

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

I didnt even use the word "racism" or "racist" about you. I merely pointed out you are surprisingly ignorant of using the term "coloured".

Once again you presume people are calling you something they havent even mentioned. Your sub-conscious is working overtime.

I did a search. 

Only you (and others, but not I) have used this word:

3 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

"coloured".

Freud would find that interesting. 😉

Edited by scottish skier

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1 minute ago, scottish skier said:

You think you are being clever about wording.

That's all.

Night night. Until next time! 🙂 👍

 

 

SS accuses me of being "Clever about wording" - oh, the irony. Brilliant, just brilliant!

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The Sky paper review made me laugh .

Kevin Maguire “If Brexit was a dog you’d have it put down ! “

Faisal Islam on twitter has a run down on tonight’s soap opera . And the Tories had the cheek to suggest Labour would lead a coalition of chaos .

Having said that Labour look equally inept on Brexit with Barry Gardiner spouting a load of rubbish earlier on Sky News.

The country is being failed and the public can only watch on in horror at the unfolding car crash .

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