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UK Politics May 2015 Onward

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12 minutes ago, claret047 said:

Hello BB,

Are you still practising or have you cracked it now?😛

Kind Regards

Dave

Dave, if New Faces was still on tv you could've applied. Next year's BGT auditions start soon and a comedian won this year's, so you could be lucky

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26 minutes ago, claret047 said:

Hello Kent 

I trust you are well.

To paraphrase the Tina Turner hit "what's religion got to do with it?"

He has as much right to pontificate on Brexit as you or I, or do you believe that certain members of our society should be excluded from giving an opinion?

He is a very interesting character who left a high flying job in the City and so he probablly knows a lot more about the ways of the world than the ordinary Joe Public.

This morning's PMQ was an utter embarrassment exposing Mrs May as the behest of her right wing of the Conservatives. She just would not answer whether a White Paper will be published before the important summit with the EU as had been previously promised.

Meantime with Heathrow, at the last election Bojo promised his potential electorate that he would lay down in from of bulldozers if the additional runway went ahead. It was discussed and agreed by Cabinet to go ahead, but not so much as a whimper from Mr J. He is no doubt hoping everyone will quietly forget his promise, as for him self advancement is much more important than integrity. In time past if a minister did not agree with an important policy issue that would resign under the doctrine of collective responsibility, but not under this government.

Kind Regards

Dave

 

 

Indeed Most Politicians always go back on there word.  Im just trying to remember how many politicians who said they would  house syrian refugees  back in 2015  actually did 

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I find it very hard to understand why certain folk want police dogs taken off the streets. Coppers need every tool they can get in dealing with scum like this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-44380645

Being a copper today must be one of the most stressful occupations you can imagine,they need every support they can. Having a combined social policy to treat the cause of such crime is needed,but the resultant behaviour also need treating with every possible tool,that includes dogs/horses where needed.

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36 minutes ago, markyo said:

I find it very hard to understand why certain folk want police dogs taken off the streets. Coppers need every tool they can get in dealing with scum like this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-44380645

Being a copper today must be one of the most stressful occupations you can imagine,they need every support they can. Having a combined social policy to treat the cause of such crime is needed,but the resultant behaviour also need treating with every possible tool,that includes dogs/horses where needed.

Because we nowadays pander to the vocal tiny minority..bring back coppers like the sweeney..not the limp wrist brigade we have today:wallbash:

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Just now, cheeky_monkey said:

Because we nowadays pander to the vocal tiny minority..bring back coppers like the sweeney..not the limp wrist brigade we have today:wallbash:

It's not the coppers who are limp wristed,trust me. Its the rules and regulations that shackle them to much at certain times that are the problem. Its the vocal minority which ensure this shackles stay in place,i agree. They need to operate under a common sense system,yes with restrictions but with the ability to get the job done and do what they swore a oath to do. The politicians should take heed of this. To many times the law and order card is used for their own political gain and not for what law and order stands for.

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20 minutes ago, markyo said:

It's not the coppers who are limp wristed,trust me. Its the rules and regulations that shackle them to much at certain times that are the problem. Its the vocal minority which ensure this shackles stay in place,i agree. They need to operate under a common sense system,yes with restrictions but with the ability to get the job done and do what they swore a oath to do. The politicians should take heed of this. To many times the law and order card is used for their own political gain and not for what law and order stands for.

it is they are all Wayne Kerr's believe me..most of the real coppers quit years ago and now look at force and shake their heads

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3 hours ago, kent said:

Being an absolute atheist I consider his views to be pure fantasy both in the after life and his vision of the EU.

I don't believe he should be meddling in politics anyway.

Fits in with your chosen picture of a Berliotz, a romantic FRENCH composer.  Dream on.

He has as much right to his opinions and the right to express them as you do - leavers often take one facet of an argument and use it to try and demolish all, instead of recognising good and bad points, which most arguments have, and when they cannot defeat the argument they attack the writer, which happens often on here.  

The dream part comes from the leavers with their unicorns and a vision of Shangi La, which was oft repeated during the campaign by the leavers - I notice they are trying to back pedal on this now, since it is becoming obvious that it is not going to happen, so the only thing I can see which is keeping Brexit afloat now is the hate they display for the EU - they never have a good word to say for it - now come now, nothing is never that bad on such a subject, it must have some redeeming features which you are too afraid to admit. 

Yes, it was Berliotz 'March to the Scaffold' written during a period of depression from having an unrequited love. Very apt for brexit, I thought, because I expect it will cause depression in most of us no matter which way we voted because it certainly does not show any way of working out, except for some who may be recipients of large brown envelops for services rendered.

Then the actual march to scaffold signifies the downfall of our country as a result of that brexit.  

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2 hours ago, weirpig said:

To paraphrase the Tina Turner hit "what's religion got to do with it?"

He has as much right to pontificate on Brexit as you or I, or do you believe that certain members of our society should be excluded from giving an opinion?

He is a very interesting character who left a high flying job in the City and so he probablly knows a lot more about the ways of the world than the ordinary Joe Public.

Yeah sure, interesting you could say that.

Ever heard of the Iwerne bash camp?  A so called holiday camp for public schoolboys in the late 70s early 80s when John Smythe QC a prominent evangelist and lawyer was in charge of the camp in Dorset.  The boys were made to strip naked and subjected to savage beatings with a cane amongst other perversions.then forced to wear nappies.  When the church received knowledge of the sadomachistis cult that was happening there Smythe was sent abroad and escaped conviction.

Welby was a dormitory officer there at the time and has denied all knowledge of what was going on there.  Uncovered by the church he too disappeared to France for ten years to work for a French company.  When it finally became known to the police many years later Welby still denied any knowledge and described Smythe as a charming man who he has not had contact with since. It has since been known that they exchanged Christmas cards and subsequently has made a public apology saying that maybe the church should have acted sooner.

Channel 4 did a documentary on it and to this day has disclosed a lot of questions still remain unanswered.

Furthermore on my post that Welby has no business in meddling an article today in the Telegram said it was a terrible error for Welby to publicly embrace EU utopianism.   

He has publicly admitted he is a Francophile and lists his interests as almost everything French.

Don't preach to me about the virtues of so called eminent religious figures because life has taught me that whenever any scandal occurs they are usually right up there at the front of the queue and subsequently all hushed up by their elders.

  

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Apologies to Weirpig I was replying to Claret047 for the post above. Don't know what happened there.

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1 hour ago, markyo said:

I find it very hard to understand why certain folk want police dogs taken off the streets. Coppers need every tool they can get in dealing with scum like this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-44380645

Being a copper today must be one of the most stressful occupations you can imagine,they need every support they can. Having a combined social policy to treat the cause of such crime is needed,but the resultant behaviour also need treating with every possible tool,that includes dogs/horses where needed.

Markyo, it is well known that drug dealers etc. hate police dogs - they are trained to catch people and sniff out drugs - they make short work of searching a building to find a suspect hiding in there, so you can appreciate that it is upsetting their sensitive sensibilities.

It is atrocious - these people should be allowed to continue their illegal trade unhampered by those dreadful police officers, despite that trade killing many during the course of year through OD's and adulterated substances. 

However, they are not dog haters altogether, they often keep staffies and such like themselves who they have trained to safeguard their stash and will bite the hand off any unsuspecting police officer who happens to find and seize it.  

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https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/ruth-dudley-edwards-if-there-was-to-be-another-eu-referendum-id-vote-leave-with-even-more-gusto-than-2016-36972957.html

This woman makes a lot of sense.

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Looks like the government is descending into total chaos on Brexit.

The backstop solution on the border agreed in cabinet is now not agreed according to David Davis .

The White Paper shows little sign of appearing anytime soon.

The Labour position looks like more cake and eat it with the latest amendment looking like wanting the benefits but avoiding obligations . 

If only some sanity had prevailed and the parties could coalesce around the Efta/EEA.

Edited by nick sussex

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11 minutes ago, nick sussex said:

Looks like the government is descending into total chaos on Brexit.

The backstop solution on the border agreed in cabinet is now not agreed according to David Davis .

The White Paper shows little sign of appearing anytime soon.

The Labour position looks like more cake and eat it with the latest amendment looking like wanting the benefits but avoiding obligations . 

If only some sanity had prevailed and the parties could coalesce around the Efta/EEA.

Could be reviled tonight 

Well actually tomorrow morning for us 

Also good news Amazon committing to Britain 

Amazon is to create more than 2,500 jobs in the UK this year, including 650 head office roles, as the online retailer says it remains committed to expanding in Brexit Britain.

The company is looking for speech science and machine learning experts to help it develop its smart speakers and Alexa personal assistant

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/06/amazon-committed-to-post-brexit-britain-plans-2700-new-jobs?CMP=twt_gu&__twitter_impression=true

Edited by Wiltshire_snow_lover

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10 hours ago, Sardonixs said:

It's been postponed till mid-July, they were not happy with some of the data from what I can remember and needed to recheck it - announced the fact it was going to delayed a couple of days before was going to be released.

Thanks. I hadn't seen that news.

I'm interested because the EU worker data shows we've swung to net emigration of these as they up sticks and leave. Total EU numbers (which covers everyone, working or not, e.g. worker partners, dependents, other family + students, people hear to travel) has been, unsurprisingly, following EU worker trends (most are related to workers somehow). So we can expect that we'll have total EU net emigration soon if not already. Economic implications of this (both cause and effect) are profound. Economically, mass emigration is disastrous*. 

I hope they get the counting right. It's a lot easier with workers as they pay tax and NI. Non workers must be just 'counted in and out', and that's where there is some delay; matching the different methods for this.

 

--

*EDIT obviously there's nothing we can do to stop EU citizens leaving en masse now short of retaining free movement. The Great British Brexodus is underway. However, we can just dump the caps on non-EU from SE Asia, Africa (i.e. commonwealth) etc to fill the skills gaps / lower the population age.

Edited by scottish skier

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58 minutes ago, cheeky_monkey said:

it is they are all Wayne Kerr's believe me..most of the real coppers quit years ago and now look at force and shake their heads

CM ever since about 1975 there has been a continual erosion of the effectiveness of the police by the politicians, by the courts and sometimes some of their own senior officers trying to curry favour with the politicians.  

A good portion of my service was done during the days when the uniform did command authority and with most of the officers te law was administered by the use of common sense and also a sense of fairness and justice. They got to know their areas and the villains on their patch and were able to use this to keep on top of crime and make the streets relatively safe. 

I said most of the officers because now and again we did have some who let down the whole side through trying to take short cuts.

This result in legislation which affected the whole service, not just the individuals responsible and as a result PACE, the Crown Prosecution Service and Police Commissioners (most of whom have an affiliation to a political party when the service is supposed to be apolitical.

As far as enhancing the efficiency of the service is concerned, it has had the opposite effect.

I still speak to police officers even though I have been retire a long time but compared with pre 1975 the morale is virtually rock bottom.

To me it is a crying shame especially when you consider the advances in forensic science, CCTV and ANPR the bad 'uns should really have nowhere to run but the increase in rules and regulations about what the police can and cannot do, what evidence is admissible and inadmissible have had the effect of smothering a lot of initiative, an essential tool for doing the job, and shackling the police in their every day work.

My view is that the police are paid to do a job and become expert in their field, not only should they be allowed to do it, they should have the support of the community, the courts and the politicians in doing so and where the odd individuals fall by the wayside, concentrate on getting that person out, rather than penalising the whole service with blanket legislation. It may surprise you to know that we don't like those people either, their activities impinge on everybody and makes there job harder. 

The lads and lasses of today are still doing a damned good job, despite being shackled the way they are. Also reflect on those who have been killed or seriously injured during the course of their duty both in the UK and abroad, because we are all one family with the common interest of serving the public - there have been a number in recent times. 

The problem is that when considering new law, the real experts of policing, those who actually have the responsibility for keeping our streets safe, are not asked - they will ask lawyers, who have a vested interest continuing to earn money from their trade and they have to have the little loopholes through which they can get people off in order to make a name for themselves and attract more business, the academics without first hand practical experience and most of all the politicians responsible for enacting the law who don't know their a... from their elbow most of the time.     

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32 minutes ago, nick sussex said:

Looks like the government is descending into total chaos on Brexit.

The backstop solution on the border agreed in cabinet is now not agreed according to David Davis .

The White Paper shows little sign of appearing anytime soon.

The Labour position looks like more cake and eat it with the latest amendment looking like wanting the benefits but avoiding obligations . 

If only some sanity had prevailed and the parties could coalesce around the Efta/EEA.

Always going to happen if you've got two parties within one.

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37 minutes ago, Wiltshire_snow_lover said:

Could be reviled tonight 

Well actually tomorrow morning for us 

Also good news Amazon committing to Britain 

Amazon is to create more than 2,500 jobs in the UK this year, including 650 head office roles, as the online retailer says it remains committed to expanding in Brexit Britain.

The company is looking for speech science and machine learning experts to help it develop its smart speakers and Alexa personal assistant

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jun/06/amazon-committed-to-post-brexit-britain-plans-2700-new-jobs?CMP=twt_gu&__twitter_impression=true

What a surprise,  it's an American company after all, course they will expand here now. They expect us to partner up with the USA after brexit. Something I do not want, but it is where we may be heading.

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Its been announced that Europes anti fraud squad spent much of 2017 dealing with large scale investigations of complex fraud schemes across the EU ranging from under devaluation scams where fraudsters profited from falsely declaring low values of goods that are imported into the bloc. to cases where funds have been embezzled intended for agricultural use. They have also uncovered fraud in large scale infrastructure projects.

In total 197 cases of fraud and embezzlement have been carried out to the tune of an eye watering £3 billion pounds.

Yet another example of this totally corrupt club where everybody is getting ripped off.  The sooner it falls the better for all.

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1 hour ago, kent said:

Yeah sure, interesting you could say that.

Ever heard of the Iwerne bash camp?  A so called holiday camp for public schoolboys in the late 70s early 80s when John Smythe QC a prominent evangelist and lawyer was in charge of the camp in Dorset.  The boys were made to strip naked and subjected to savage beatings with a cane amongst other perversions.then forced to wear nappies.  When the church received knowledge of the sadomachistis cult that was happening there Smythe was sent abroad and escaped conviction.

Welby was a dormitory officer there at the time and has denied all knowledge of what was going on there.  Uncovered by the church he too disappeared to France for ten years to work for a French company.  When it finally became known to the police many years later Welby still denied any knowledge and described Smythe as a charming man who he has not had contact with since. It has since been known that they exchanged Christmas cards and subsequently has made a public apology saying that maybe the church should have acted sooner.

Channel 4 did a documentary on it and to this day has disclosed a lot of questions still remain unanswered.

Furthermore on my post that Welby has no business in meddling an article today in the Telegram said it was a terrible error for Welby to publicly embrace EU utopianism.   

He has publicly admitted he is a Francophile and lists his interests as almost everything French.

Don't preach to me about the virtues of so called eminent religious figures because life has taught me that whenever any scandal occurs they are usually right up there at the front of the queue and subsequently all hushed up by their elders.

  

I was commenting on what he actually said, which if you read it properly, made some sense but it appears that your reaction to this is to dig up dirt - unless he is specifically forbidden from speaking on matters of a political nature, then why shouldn't he?

I somehow suspect that if what he said was beneficial to brexit cause, your posts would have been completely different. 

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Rumours going round he might resign that well might make May in a very nervous disposition...vote of no confidence and Leadership battle about to commence?

 

Edited by Wiltshire_snow_lover

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29 minutes ago, kent said:

Its been announced that Europes anti fraud squad spent much of 2017 dealing with large scale investigations of complex fraud schemes across the EU ranging from under devaluation scams where fraudsters profited from falsely declaring low values of goods that are imported into the bloc. to cases where funds have been embezzled intended for agricultural use. They have also uncovered fraud in large scale infrastructure projects.

In total 197 cases of fraud and embezzlement have been carried out to the tune of an eye watering £3 billion pounds.

Yet another example of this totally corrupt club where everybody is getting ripped off.  The sooner it falls the better for all.

Don't be silly Kent, we have our own fraudsters, one I know of one who gets a good living out of being an MEP qualifying for an eye watering pension.

The point is that fraudsters are everywhere and where they think there is a few bob to be made they will do it and are probably much more prominent in some of the African states from whence numerous scam E-Mails emanate - please let me use your bank etc for depositing huge sums of cash from which you will get a cut etc.

All what you have posted merely indicates that fraudsters are having a go at the EU and the investigators are working at bringing them to book.

As a matter of interest I think that the cost of fraud to the UK of £193 billion a year is also worth thinking about:

 https://www.experian.co.uk/blogs/latest-thinking/identity-and-fraud/fraud-costs-uk-economy-193-billion-year-equating-6000-lost-per-second-every-day/

So are you going to say now that the sooner the UK falls the better and that everyone here is totally corrupt - I know some are, we've seen a lot of that over the last 2 to 3 years.

I should add also that every time you buy insurance for your car, you are getting ripped by fraudsters - the insurance companies have to charge extra to keep the Motor Insurers' Bureau which pays out in respect of claims from uninsured third parties, a great number of whom are responsible for staging accidents. As well as the claimants involved in this there are the tame doctors for the fictitious injury reports and tame lawyers responsible for processing the claims. It is a racket costing millions;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11044315

Edited by mike Meehan

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2 minutes ago, Wiltshire_snow_lover said:

Rumours going round he might resign that well might make May in a very nervous disposition...Leadership battle about to commence?

 

There's no doubt Italy would overtake the UK in the 'strong and stable government' stakes if that happened.

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1 hour ago, mike Meehan said:

CM ever since about 1975 there has been a continual erosion of the effectiveness of the police by the politicians, by the courts and sometimes some of their own senior officers trying to curry favour with the politicians.  

A good portion of my service was done during the days when the uniform did command authority and with most of the officers te law was administered by the use of common sense and also a sense of fairness and justice. They got to know their areas and the villains on their patch and were able to use this to keep on top of crime and make the streets relatively safe. 

I said most of the officers because now and again we did have some who let down the whole side through trying to take short cuts.

This result in legislation which affected the whole service, not just the individuals responsible and as a result PACE, the Crown Prosecution Service and Police Commissioners (most of whom have an affiliation to a political party when the service is supposed to be apolitical.

As far as enhancing the efficiency of the service is concerned, it has had the opposite effect.

I still speak to police officers even though I have been retire a long time but compared with pre 1975 the morale is virtually rock bottom.

To me it is a crying shame especially when you consider the advances in forensic science, CCTV and ANPR the bad 'uns should really have nowhere to run but the increase in rules and regulations about what the police can and cannot do, what evidence is admissible and inadmissible have had the effect of smothering a lot of initiative, an essential tool for doing the job, and shackling the police in their every day work.

My view is that the police are paid to do a job and become expert in their field, not only should they be allowed to do it, they should have the support of the community, the courts and the politicians in doing so and where the odd individuals fall by the wayside, concentrate on getting that person out, rather than penalising the whole service with blanket legislation. It may surprise you to know that we don't like those people either, their activities impinge on everybody and makes there job harder. 

The lads and lasses of today are still doing a damned good job, despite being shackled the way they are. Also reflect on those who have been killed or seriously injured during the course of their duty both in the UK and abroad, because we are all one family with the common interest of serving the public - there have been a number in recent times. 

The problem is that when considering new law, the real experts of policing, those who actually have the responsibility for keeping our streets safe, are not asked - they will ask lawyers, who have a vested interest continuing to earn money from their trade and they have to have the little loopholes through which they can get people off in order to make a name for themselves and attract more business, the academics without first hand practical experience and most of all the politicians responsible for enacting the law who don't know their a... from their elbow most of the time.     

Are you forgetting all those blatant miscarriages of justice that occurred back then, Mike: the Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six and those wrongly convicted for murdering Carl Bridgewater? IMO, there were sound reasons why police powers were curtailed, and fitting-up 'stooges' was only one...?

That said, I agree with the general thrust of your post: IMO, there ain't much point in having a police force if it's prevented from carrying-out its purpose. Though surely those entrusted with maintaining the law cannot themselves be exempt from it?

We're not talking about politicians here?

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1 minute ago, Ed Stone said:

Are you forgetting all those blatant miscarriages of justice that occurred back then, Mike: the Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six and those wrongly convicted for murdering Carl Bridgewater? IMO, there were sound reasons why police powers were curtailed, and fitting-up 'stooges' was only one...?

That said, I agree with the general thrust of your post: IMO, there ain't much point in having a police force if it's prevented from carrying-out its purpose. Though surely those entrusted with maintaining the law cannot themselves be exempt from it?

We're not talking about politicians here?

and what about the mass grooming scandals ignored by police..that is a far greater failing than the above..and also the fact people still don't want to talk about it...total disgrace 

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