Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Paul

UK Politics May 2015 Onward

Recommended Posts

If the 'failed policies of the left' that leavers have got hot-under-collar about, are the Single Market and FOM, surely they are also questioning the legacy of the darling-of-the-right, Mrs T; she was instrumental in the creation of both, was she not? Another closet lefty? Or simply another lie?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, scottish skier said:

Migration statistics getting very late now.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/previousReleases?:uri=peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/previousReleases&:uri=peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/previousReleases&page=1

Was May 26th last year and the 1st of the next month is the latest it's been (on one occasion).

So 5-12 days late.

ONS overloaded trying to help the Tories up with some sort of plan?

We know skilled EU worker numbers are collapsing as they flee the UK in a massive flood; maybe HMRC just can't keep count it's all happening so fast?

It's been postponed till mid-July, they were not happy with some of the data from what I can remember and needed to recheck it - announced the fact it was going to delayed a couple of days before was going to be released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sardonixs said:

It's been postponed till mid-July, they were not happy with some of the data from what I can remember and needed to recheck it - announced the fact it was going to delayed a couple of days before was going to be released.

Or is this a ploy to keep the information it contains under wraps whilst so many brexit matters are before parliament this month?

I smell a rat and wonder whether the figures may weaken the government's case in respect of brexit. It would not surprise me and it would be in keeping with their MO. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mike Meehan said:

MIA, I did try sending you a PM at the time to inform you of this but I believed I just addressed as 'MIA' and the system did not let it though. 

However I had nothing to hide and was not worried about you knowing the source - had Paul asked me if I was willing for him to disclose it I would have agreed to that action - anyway, it is all water under the bridge now, except that I did not read it as a general comment but a personal comment directed at me in such a manner that appeared to be a slur on my integrity. 

This is a matter, where, though I say it myself, I try to maintain high standards and really have been sickened by the tactics of the leave campaign and subsequently by our government who don't appear to hold the same high standards; this was something I never expected to see this extent in my lifetime, despite being well used to dealing with other such people in other walks of life and I genuinely believe that this is not doing the reputation of our country any good whatsoever. There are no doubt some who will think it clever but any benefit will only be short term. In general the people who employ these tactics get their comeuppance sooner or later; believe me, I have seen it happen time and time again. 

My view of the other remain posts on here is that I do have respect for the views they put forward as genuine points of view, hence the likes but you have to admit that you are somewhat selective in what you chose to post to the extent it does not always portray an unvarnished truth as can be supported by facts.  

To be honest, I don't think that the facetious comments in rest of your post are necessary and do not really help the debate so we can either figuratively kiss and make up by letting bygones be bygones and discuss our differences in a more adult manner or continue in a state of hostility - it is up to you.    

 

 

AN adult XXXXX it is then...… :unknw:

MIA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Dave  (Claret)

re your query on the Construction Industry news.

Markitt issued their PMI on Monday. It was unchanged on 52.0, (I seem to remember).

Have to go to dentist,  I do not have time to check just now.

Back later for a discussion on pregnant cows and the NI border.. ( probably another lie!)

 

MIA 

 

Edited by Midlands Ice Age

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, mike Meehan said:

Or is this a ploy to keep the information it contains under wraps whilst so many brexit matters are before parliament this month?

I smell a rat and wonder whether the figures may weaken the government's case in respect of brexit. It would not surprise me and it would be in keeping with their MO. 

 

It was postponed on the 17th May long before the date of the votes was known:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/postponementofmigrationstatisticsquarterlyreport

The no one gets advance copies of  stats anymore which is why Labour market figures are now released on Tuesdays, not Wednesdays so that the data can be properly assessed before being thrown about at PMQ

Quote

 

On 15 June 2017, the National Statistician announced that routine pre-release access to Office for National Statistics (ONS) statistics would end from 1 July 2017. Following this, we have considered the dates of our publications to ensure that they continue to meet user needs. This included informal discussions with users, including those from across government. One of the issues raised was the proximity of labour market statistics to Prime Minister’s Questions.

Publication of labour market statistics on the day of Prime Minister’s Questions – one of the most important and most widely covered parliamentary occasions – means there is a risk that these detailed statistics are not fully understood by Parliamentarians on both sides of the House before they can be debated. This reduces the public value of these statistics.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/changestoonsreleasetimetable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Wiltshire_snow_lover said:

Labour has a position on brexit then...

One I would never vote for, however as I'm not a labour voter anyway, it doesn't matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Bristle boy said:

As i've said before in here i cannot see the likes of BMW CEO and others just accepting any EU-27 political hard-ball play re trade with UK post-Brexit. The elected politicians in Germany, France, etc know there has to be trade incl cars with UK, otherwise large co CEOs in those countries plus trade unions representing 000s of workers will just not accept a stalemate.

And right on cue the Audi chairman:

The head of one of Germany’s biggest car makers yesterday called for a tariff-free trade deal with Britain.

In a major intervention, Audi chairman Rupert Stadler said he wanted the EU to get on with striking a trade deal with Britain that would preserve existing markets on both sides of the Channel.

He said "We dont want tariffs. I'm a big fan of fair trade and free trade"...

"Great Britain is a big market for Audi. It's a very important market for us".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Bristle boy said:

As i've said before in here i cannot see the likes of BMW CEO and others just accepting any EU-27 political hard-ball play re trade with UK post-Brexit. The elected politicians in Germany, France, etc know there has to be trade incl cars with UK, otherwise large co CEOs in those countries plus trade unions representing 000s of workers will just not accept a stalemate.

I agree, but it's not up to the companies, it's up to us, we know the rules inside out, there are options, and you don't have to be EU members for some of them. But all the options have other rules with them, we apparently do not want. So if we decided to negotiate a whole new deal, which it looks like has so far been the plan, that will take many years, and there will be a stalemate in between.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, kent said:

I trust you are referring to the loss of care in our NHS which seems to be the excuse used by many remainers.   Skilled EU workers?

The NHS staff in most hospitals, certainly the case in Poole general where my daughter works are by and large non EU citizens with most from the former Commonwealth.  Most of the nurses there are from the Phillipines and a wonderful job they are doing too. Don't believe ive met a French German doctor or nurse.

My whole point is once we are outside the EU/EEA Britain will be in control of whatever amount of immigration to Britain skilled or otherwise. I have never objected to immigration where needed but this insane open door to every single EU citizens [510 million] without proper security checks who can all come at will, which has been a proven threat to every single nation in Europe.

These open borders have been the enabler of terrorism [Paris Berlin, Nice Brussels London Stockholm, Barcelona etc etc.]  and also the cause for mass illegal immigration violence and crime and rioting.

You've been rather unlucky, I've seen a lot of of eastern European nurses down here, all rather nice people, a few from the Philippines also very nice, well it's part of the job. Now getting mostly Asian ones, also very nice people. So I can personally see the change down here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://evolvepolitics.com/an-exasperated-caroline-lucas-just-blasted-theresa-may-for-taking-the-pss-with-crucial-brexit-votes/

I think Caroline Lucas is right - Theresa May, driven by her right wing of the party appears to be willing to try every shoddy trick in the book in her efforts to ingratiate herself with her right wing masters and populace opinion in order to keep herself in power and by doing so has shown herself to be devoid of any real respect and understanding for and of the people - her description of the remainers as citizens of nowhere exemplifies that.

The policy of the end justifying the means should never be acceptable in a modern free democratic society because in the end that will destroy democracy.  

Edited by mike Meehan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2018/8-june/news/uk/eu-is-one-of-the-greatest-human-achievements-says-welby-and-that-s-the-truth

I am not a religious man in the accepted sense and the only times you will find me at a church service will be for weddings and funerals, yet I am quite pleasurably surprised at the words of Marcus Welby, a man to whom I have paid little attention previously. 

However, unlike the brexiteers who consider themselves right in everything, I am willing to accept and consider ideas wherever they come from provided they have merit and from what I have seen that is also the EU way. 

He describes the EU, warts 'n all, as one of the greatest human achievements since the fall of the Western Roman Empire, which it is. It is the first time in history that half a billion people have come together voluntarily where the object of the system is to work for the common good of all. 

He is right and where there are faults in the system and we should be working from within, not without, to rectify these.

The point I would add which he did not mention is that by doing this, Great Britain would be truly fulfilling its role as a great nation rather than running away, destined to fall into an ever deepening obscurity.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, mike Meehan said:

https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2018/8-june/news/uk/eu-is-one-of-the-greatest-human-achievements-says-welby-and-that-s-the-truth

I am not a religious man in the accepted sense and the only times you will find me at a church service will be for weddings and funerals, yet I am quite pleasurably surprised at the words of Marcus Welby, a man to whom I have paid little attention previously. 

However, unlike the brexiteers who consider themselves right in everything, I am willing to accept and consider ideas wherever they come from provided they have merit and from what I have seen that is also the EU way. 

He describes the EU, warts 'n all, as one of the greatest human achievements since the fall of the Western Roman Empire, which it is. It is the first time in history that half a billion people have come together voluntarily where the object of the system is to work for the common good of all. 

He is right and where there are faults in the system and we should be working from within, not without, to rectify these.

The point I would add which he did not mention is that by doing this, Great Britain would be truly fulfilling its role as a great nation rather than running away, destined to fall into an ever deepening obscurity.   

You have "paid little attention" to him in the past but now he said what he said that agrees with your views on Europe you do pay attention. Brilliant! You couldnt make it up! Chuckle time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bristle boy said:

You have "paid little attention" to him in the past but now he said what he said that agrees with your views on Europe you do pay attention. Brilliant! You couldnt make it up! Chuckle time.

Did you actually read what he said, or is that post merely a reaction to my comments?

I have paid overwhelming attention to the brexit views, considered them but quite honestly have come to the view that they are making it up as they go along - they still have no plans, other than it will work out ok on the night - now that is blind faith following its uninformed archangel, 'The voice of the people'. 

Do you honestly believe that the UK should gamble its future on such as this.

Chuckle time for me, methinks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems like Labour as well as the Tories are equally clueless regarding Brexit.

EDIT. Dog biscuits = B o llocks. (The Net Weather swear filter is stricter than the Times.) 

From today's Times.

Official: Labour policy is ‘dog biscuits’

Some have suspected it for a while but now it is official: Labour's policy on Brexit is dog biscuits.

Not my words, Mr Speaker, but those of the right honourable member for Whistling Mozart ,Barry Gardiner. 

Remember how the shadow international trade secretary was caught on tape a couple of months ago discussing his party's policy on the biggest issue of the day, and the six "tests" Labour had set the government?

“Well let’s just take one test," he said. "The exact same benefits. dog biscuits. Always has been dog biscuits and it remains it.” 

And now this unlikely demand that we leave the EU but continue to enjoy all of the perks has been set down in a Labour amendment to the EU withdrawal bill ahead of its return to the Commons next week.

The amendment states: “It shall be a negotiating objective of Her Majesty’s Government to ensure the United Kingdom has full access to the single market of the European Union, underpinned by shared institutions and regulations, with no new impediments to trade and common rights, standards and protections as a minimum.” 

So "full access" to the single market, though not membership but no downside either. This is, according to Labour insiders, “the softest possible” Brexit.

The strange thing is the House of Lords had already passed an amendment to keep Britain in the European Economic Area (EEA), which is made up of the 28 EU countries plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

But instead of backing this – and standing a stronger chance of it passing in the Commons – Labour has drawn up its own amendment. The fact that this will now be seen as a Corbyn policy will make it less likely that Tory rebels would vote for it.

Furious pro-Remain Labour MPs including Alison McGovern are wondering out loud: "Why not just vote for the Lords amendment?" Henry Newman, director of the Open Europe think tank, explained it: “It’s opposition politics so you can promise unicorns.”


Why would the EU give Britain the "exact same benefits" of a club we were no longer a member of? Indeed, sources in Brussels made clear they did not understand what the Labour amendment meant.

But here is the thing: Labour are not the government. And the government doesn't have a policy on Brexit either. At least not one that a) commands the support of the cabinet, the Tory party and parliament, b) could get past Brussels or c) actually works.
As a result it is quite hard for Conservative ministers to mock Labour for a lack of clarity and consistency.

But as a piece of politics, Labour's move doesn't make much sense either: if it really wants the "softest possible" Brexit, weighing in behind a Lords amendment would have stood a better chance.

Confused? Well let's turn to Jeremy Corbyn's Twitter account, where he has set it all out in detail to his 1.8 million disciples, I mean followers.

Oh. It seems the Labour leader has not mentioned this exciting new shift in party policy. 

As Alastair Campbell pointed out yesterday, in the last day or two Corbyn has tweeted on "Muhammad Ali, Swansea lagoon, Britain's Got Talent, disability, fur farming, and Iftar". 

"Real issues in some," Campbell. "But does he ever wake up and think 'wonder what's going on with Brexit?'" 

Some say this is all part of some clever balancing act to keep the Remainer Labour MPs and the Leavers who voted for them all on side. 

But when the latest YouGov poll shows that just 48 per cent of Labour voters think Labour is the best party for dealing with Brexit, there is the possibility that this might not be working.

Or as a wise man once said: "dog biscuits. Always has been dog biscuits and it remains it."

Edited by kar999

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, mike Meehan said:

Did you actually read what he said, or is that post merely a reaction to my comments?

I have paid overwhelming attention to the brexit views, considered them but quite honestly have come to the view that they are making it up as they go along - they still have no plans, other than it will work out ok on the night - now that is blind faith following its uninformed archangel, 'The voice of the people'. 

Do you honestly believe that the UK should gamble its future on such as this.

Chuckle time for me, methinks. 

Yep read it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, kar999 said:

It seems like Labour as well as the Tories are equally clueless regarding Brexit.

EDIT. Dog biscuits = B o llocks. (The Net Weather swear filter is stricter than the Times.) 

From today's Times.

Official: Labour policy is ‘dog biscuits’

Some have suspected it for a while but now it is official: Labour's policy on Brexit is dog biscuits.

Not my words, Mr Speaker, but those of the right honourable member for Whistling Mozart ,Barry Gardiner. 

Remember how the shadow international trade secretary was caught on tape a couple of months ago discussing his party's policy on the biggest issue of the day, and the six "tests" Labour had set the government?

“Well let’s just take one test," he said. "The exact same benefits. dog biscuits. Always has been dog biscuits and it remains it.” 

And now this unlikely demand that we leave the EU but continue to enjoy all of the perks has been set down in a Labour amendment to the EU withdrawal bill ahead of its return to the Commons next week.

The amendment states: “It shall be a negotiating objective of Her Majesty’s Government to ensure the United Kingdom has full access to the single market of the European Union, underpinned by shared institutions and regulations, with no new impediments to trade and common rights, standards and protections as a minimum.” 

So "full access" to the single market, though not membership but no downside either. This is, according to Labour insiders, “the softest possible” Brexit.

The strange thing is the House of Lords had already passed an amendment to keep Britain in the European Economic Area (EEA), which is made up of the 28 EU countries plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.

But instead of backing this – and standing a stronger chance of it passing in the Commons – Labour has drawn up its own amendment. The fact that this will now be seen as a Corbyn policy will make it less likely that Tory rebels would vote for it.

Furious pro-Remain Labour MPs including Alison McGovern are wondering out loud: "Why not just vote for the Lords amendment?" Henry Newman, director of the Open Europe think tank, explained it: “It’s opposition politics so you can promise unicorns.”


Why would the EU give Britain the "exact same benefits" of a club we were no longer a member of? Indeed, sources in Brussels made clear they did not understand what the Labour amendment meant.

But here is the thing: Labour are not the government. And the government doesn't have a policy on Brexit either. At least not one that a) commands the support of the cabinet, the Tory party and parliament, b) could get past Brussels or c) actually works.
As a result it is quite hard for Conservative ministers to mock Labour for a lack of clarity and consistency.

But as a piece of politics, Labour's move doesn't make much sense either: if it really wants the "softest possible" Brexit, weighing in behind a Lords amendment would have stood a better chance.

Confused? Well let's turn to Jeremy Corbyn's Twitter account, where he has set it all out in detail to his 1.8 million disciples, I mean followers.

Oh. It seems the Labour leader has not mentioned this exciting new shift in party policy. 

As Alastair Campbell pointed out yesterday, in the last day or two Corbyn has tweeted on "Muhammad Ali, Swansea lagoon, Britain's Got Talent, disability, fur farming, and Iftar". 

"Real issues in some," Campbell. "But does he ever wake up and think 'wonder what's going on with Brexit?'" 

Some say this is all part of some clever balancing act to keep the Remainer Labour MPs and the Leavers who voted for them all on side. 

But when the latest YouGov poll shows that just 48 per cent of Labour voters think Labour is the best party for dealing with Brexit, there is the possibility that this might not be working.

Or as a wise man once said: "dog biscuits. Always has been dog biscuits and it remains it."

I've said it time after time,one of the main reasons we are in this mess is Corbyn. His apathy to reality of politics is astonishing,the main opposition party leader should be banging on the door of the Tories,demanding a solution to there total miss management of Brexit,where is he? Clueless is the word that best sum's him up.

Edited by markyo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://news.sky.com/story/european-businesses-advised-to-avoid-using-british-parts-ahead-of-brexit-11395908

Do you know, it rather reminds me of this:

Or perhaps this:

 

Edited by mike Meehan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

Yep read it. 

So it appears that you prefer to gain cheap brownie points rather than to comment on the substance of the article. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, mike Meehan said:

So it appears that you prefer to gain cheap brownie points rather than to comment on the substance of the article. 

Nope. I take no notice of religious leaders these days unless they're stirring up emotions. Religion is too divisive imo, for me to take it seriously these days, despite me being brought up a practicising Catholic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Be interesting to see what Labour do post next week.  Their amendment won't pass, the Pro EU Labour MPs won't vote for it, the Pro EU Conservatives won't vote for it (they want EEA) nor will the SNP or Lib Dems. 

There has been an EEA amendment to the Trade Bill:

If Labour change their mind and back this then they lose the 'big stick' to hit the Conservates with (no more talk about the NI border, no more splits in the cabinet etc).  If they don't then they join the Conservatives in being the party of hard Brexit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mike Meehan said:

I am not a religious man in the accepted sense and the only times you will find me at a church service will be for weddings and funerals, yet I am quite pleasurably surprised at the words of Marcus Welby, a man to whom I have paid little attention previously. 

Being an absolute atheist I consider his views to be pure fantasy both in the after life and his vision of the EU.

I don't believe he should be meddling in politics anyway.

Fits in with your chosen picture of a Berliotz, a romantic FRENCH composer.  Dream on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

Nope. I take no notice of religious leaders these days unless they're stirring up emotions. Religion is too divisive imo, for me to take it seriously these days, despite me being brought up a practicising Catholic.

So you only listen to them when they impinge on ground usually occupied by racists and xenophobes; i.e., leave politicians?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

Nope. I take no notice of religious leaders these days unless they're stirring up emotions. Religion is too divisive imo, for me to take it seriously these days, despite me being brought up a practicising Catholic.

Hello BB,

Are you still practising or have you cracked it now?😛

Kind Regards

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, kent said:

Being an absolute atheist I consider his views to be pure fantasy both in the after life and his vision of the EU.

I don't believe he should be meddling in politics anyway.

Fits in with your chosen picture of a Berliotz, a romantic FRENCH composer.  Dream on.

Hello Kent 

I trust you are well.

To paraphrase the Tina Turner hit "what's religion got to do with it?"

He has as much right to pontificate on Brexit as you or I, or do you believe that certain members of our society should be excluded from giving an opinion?

He is a very interesting character who left a high flying job in the City and so he probablly knows a lot more about the ways of the world than the ordinary Joe Public.

This morning's PMQ was an utter embarrassment exposing Mrs May as the behest of her right wing of the Conservatives. She just would not answer whether a White Paper will be published before the important summit with the EU as had been previously promised.

Meantime with Heathrow, at the last election Bojo promised his potential electorate that he would lay down in from of bulldozers if the additional runway went ahead. It was discussed and agreed by Cabinet to go ahead, but not so much as a whimper from Mr J. He is no doubt hoping everyone will quietly forget his promise, as for him self advancement is much more important than integrity. In time past if a minister did not agree with an important policy issue that would resign under the doctrine of collective responsibility, but not under this government.

Kind Regards

Dave

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...