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UK Politics May 2015 Onward

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34 minutes ago, Ed Stone said:

Another thing I find odd about the current poor state of affairs, is that those who appear most desperate to label themselves 'patriots' are the very people who've got us into the mess we are in, and who have so tarnished (possibly for ever) whatever reputation this country ever had...Ironic indeed!🤔

In this case the word patriotism is a cover for a multitude of sins, for a start is being used as a cover for xenophobia and bigotry.

The true patriots are those who recognise that we belong to something much greater than ourselves and working towards making that work and that is Europe. 

Even the leavers are Europeans whether they like it or not but they just close their minds to it and in their arrogance believe that they are always right. 

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1 hour ago, mike Meehan said:

The true patriots are those who recognise that we belong to something much greater than ourselves and working towards making that work and that is Europe. 

Absurd statement when those true patriots all over Europe are building fences and turning to the right because of forced integration.

And if your definition of patriotism is a cover for xenophobia and bigotry then I am sure the residents of Europe will not take kindly to your views.  You mentioned the fact that you would rather drape yourself in the EU flag than an English one which suggests to me that because of your absolute infatuation of [ France ] and the EU you would quite cheerfully sell out England for 30 pieces of silver and a free croissant.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44357580

Personally whilst we do need to improve our infrastructure, Heathrow seems a like a really poor idea when airports in the north of England and parts of Scotland could really need improvements which would of course offer more opportunities to the cities in the north of the UK. Add to that airports such as Stansted and Luton could possibly be expanded with far less cost in terms of compensation and environmental impacts.

This is one area where I do actually agree with Boris, though to be honest whether he is personally against it or whether he is behaving like this to hold onto votes is another matter.

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2 hours ago, kent said:

Thank you lol.  but I am also aware of the fact that because we won the DEMOCRATIC referendum its the remainers that should be feeling the more comforted because after all nobody challenges a loser.

Talking of which Labour won Kensington by just 20 votes that's terrible they must have lied and cheated, lets all stamp our feet and demand a re-run.

Hello Kent,

If it is only by 20 votes it would have been quite been quite reasonable to have requested a recount as it would have been within the margin of error.. What s your fixation with Labour, as a number of us that are Remainers who post on here do not support them and so your attempting trolling does rather tend to fall on deaf ears.

Thanks for emphasising the word democratic as it is good to know you appreciate the wonders of our democracy intrinsic in our country. It was just a pity the Government  and their right wing mates in the press did not reflect upon this when the tried to put pressure on the judiciary and the Telegraph printed photographs of the judges and called them traitors or similar inflammatory term.

I find it strange that you state no one ever challenges a loser, but you and to a lesser extent others on the Leave side on this thread have constantly done so  citiing "Project Fear" as part of your argument. There is nothing at all wrong with you challenging our opinions and you are more than welcome to continue to do so.

I do not feel at all comforted by the current situation but that is by the by.

Kind Regards

Dave

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22 minutes ago, Captain Shortwave said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44357580

Personally whilst we do need to improve our infrastructure, Heathrow seems a like a really poor idea when airports in the north of England and parts of Scotland could really need improvements which would of course offer more opportunities to the cities in the north of the UK. Add to that airports such as Stansted and Luton could possibly be expanded with far less cost in terms of compensation and environmental impacts.

This is one area where I do actually agree with Boris, though to be honest whether he is personally against it or whether he is behaving like this to hold onto votes is another matter.

Agreed. More money for the dark star for the benefit of London and the South East only.

I can guarantee that the cost will be well in excess of the figure quoted too.

London must be fed.

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4 hours ago, kent said:

 

Regarding so called hate filled rhetoric when remainers post things like " this is why I am reminded why I detest you" followed by name calling and then being applauded with likes just because of his opinions, followed by silence from the rest then don't expect a silence from the opposition.

 

Felt it worthwhile (now things have calmed down a little) and as the recipient of the post, I would like to point out that the above post was not replied to directly (reaction), but it does show the true instincts of the left.

Outside - all love and compassion,  but inwardly are  seething that they have not had their way and full of hate, for anyone who dares to challenge/question their views.

Additionally I would like to point out that no complaint has gone to Paul. Unlike when I questioned whether Mike was in contact with Brussels officials. I got banned for that, basically as it was considered to be 'personal'  and I was told that I ignored 'reason'.

So no moaning from me. Just  a conformation of some people's biased position.

 

In reply to the above insinuations'  and lies from Malcolm.  (liked by many!)

I too have desires to improve the lifestyle and living standards for the less fortunate in our society. 

It is not  just the preserve of the left.

The difference is that I recognise that it will not be possible for this happen on a permanent basis.....

Just throwing money at the problems will only  serve to hasten the ending of this 'liberation'.

For example the increasing of the public sector under Labour in the period of 2000 - 2009 has led us into the situation that we could no longer afford to support that sector and its burgeoning deficit. OK it was a world wide problem - but we were not 'secure' enough to withstand the efects.

Something had to be done. The country recognised this in 2010.

Has anyone learned the lesson? (on here?)

I do believe that the  'fix'   has been taken too far, but nevertheless the situation existed and it has caused further hardship.

So improvements for the less capable, should not be undertaken before the economy is in a good enough shape to support the added spending  - not just in the short-term, but in the long term as well. This is where I disagree with most of the liberal lefties on here.

We have to ensure that the economy is capable of supporting these people.

I can hear screams/replies, 'SIMPLY TAX THE RICH'.

But already the 'rich' (at least the top 1%) are paying 30% of the taxation  in this country.

Any further taxation will have a detrimental effect. This has been proved on two occasions already during the last 20 -30 years were the country suffered with increased taxation. Each time the country has responded when the taxation was removed.

The top 5  - 10% of the people generate most of the wealth (and jobs) that the rest of the country requires to thrive, and then  to ensure that  the country have enough available income to support the needy for the long term.

To pretend otherwise is to support the world's communistic society and view of life.

Unless we are talking about the many spongers in the HOL!

So Malcolm, our desires  are not that far apart, it is the way in which we get there that differs.

Also I did ask a very straight forward question in my original reply? Does the blustering of your reply absolve you of producing a response?

MIA

Edited by Midlands Ice Age

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38 minutes ago, kent said:

Absurd statement when those true patriots all over Europe are building fences and turning to the right because of forced integration.

And if your definition of patriotism is a cover for xenophobia and bigotry then I am sure the residents of Europe will not take kindly to your views.  You mentioned the fact that you would rather drape yourself in the EU flag than an English one which suggests to me that because of your absolute infatuation of [ France ] and the EU you would quite cheerfully sell out England for 30 pieces of silver and a free croissant.

But true patriots don't deliberately set-out to feather their own nests, at the expense of greater society (as Brexiteers do)...In fact I doubt they ever jump on the 'patriotic' bandwagon at all. Why the need to shout about how great you are, unless your real fear is of being exposed as a charlatan?

PS: Did Sir Winston Churchill keep forever referring to himself as a 'true patriot'? Or did he just get on with it!

Edited by Ed Stone

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21 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Felt it worthwhile (now things have calmed down a little) and as the recipient of the post, I would like to point out that the above post was not replied to directly (reaction), but it does show the true instincts of the left.

Outside - all love and compassion,  but inwardly are  seething that they have not had their way and full of hate, for anyone who dares to challenge/question their views.

Additionally I would like to point out that no complaint has gone to Paul. Unlike when I questioned whether Mike was in contact with Brussels officials. I got banned for that, basically as it was considered to be 'personal'  and I was told that I ignored 'reason'.

So no moaning from me. Just  a conformation of some people's biased position.

 

In reply to the above insinuations'  and lies from Malcolm.  (liked by many!)

I too have desires to improve the lifestyle and living standards for the less fortunate in our society. 

It is not  just the preserve of the left.

The difference is that I recognise that it will not be possible for this happen on a permanent basis.....

Just throwing money at the problems will only to hasten the ending of this 'liberation'.

For example the increasing of the public sector under Labour in the period of 2000 - 2009 has led us into the situation that we could no longer afford to support that sector and its burgeoning deficit. OK it was a world wide problem - but we were not 'secure' enough to withstand the efects.

Something had to be done. The country recognised this in 2010.

Has anyone learned the lesson? (on here?)

I do believe that the  'fix'   has been taken too far, but nevertheless the situation existed and it has caused further hardship.

So improvements for the less capable, should not be undertaken before the economy is in a good enough shape to support the added spending  - not just in the short-term, but in the long term as well. This is where I disagree with most of the liberal lefties on here.

We have to ensure that the economy is capable of supporting these people.

I can hear screams/replies, 'SIMPLY TAX THE RICH'.

But already the 'rich' (at least the top 1%) are paying 30% of the taxation  in this country.

Any further taxation will have a detrimental effect. This has been proved on two occasions already during the last 20 -30 years were the country suffered with increased taxation. Each time the country has responded when the taxation was removed.

The top 5  - 10% of the people generate most of the wealth (and jobs) that the rest of the country requires to thrive, and then  to ensure that  the country have enough available income to support the needy for the long term.

To pretend otherwise is to support the world's communistic society and view of life.

Unless we are talking about the many spongers in the HOL!

So Malcolm, our desires  are not that far apart, it is the way in which we get there that differs.

Also I did ask a very straight forward question in my original reply? Does the blustering of your reply absolve you of producing a response?

MIA

Good Afternoon MIA,

I think I will have to go and find the smelling salts or lay down as I am beginning to feel weak. The reason fir that is that I agree with a lot of what you state above. 

There are only a couple of points I would make with which I do not agree.

One was on austerity. There are ways of cutting expenditure but to do so at targeting the weakest in society to save money is not the right way of doing it and sends out the wrong message. Instead of arranging sweetheart deals with multi-nationals to enable them to pay an insignificant proportion of what they actually owe and insisting they pay the full whack would be seen as fairer.

The reason it looked as though raising tax had a detrimental effect was it was not allowed to run long enough at the increased rate. Those earning mega bucks and their clever advisers knew increases were imminent and payed in advance (or used some other tactic) and so the net figure for the following year was less than compared to the previous.

As I have posted before many of the cuts we have seen have not actually saved money, but often cost more, especially in the longer term. Cutting the number of nursing places or seeing a pay cap on nurses wages as well as medical specialists has resulted in shortages and therefore more has to be spent on agency staff or recruitment costs for people from abroad to join us. People waiting longer for operations means that they are often either unable to work or have more time off sick whilst that await to enter hospital. That affects productivity etc.

Kind Regards

Comrade Dave

Edited by claret047

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The EU have been dealt another blow after stating their intentions to support Iran over its nuclear deal and to keep trade open with them via businesses in Iran.

Under pressure from  the US  the European Investment bank has said it is now backing away from plans to support the EU with their plans.  No real surprise there when a third of the banks investment is dollar denominated.

Guess Trump wont be invited to any of Junckers overnight lock-ins.

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6 minutes ago, kar999 said:

There's plenty of doom and gloom both economically and politically on here, and with much good reason, but I'm fed up with pessimism so it's time for some positives with a glass half full economic post again from me....  thanks.

Shoppers hit the high street in their droves last month, helping retail sales to grow at the sharpest rate in four years.

Figures released overnight by the British Retail Consortium and KPMG showed retail sales up by 4.1 per cent in May compared with the same month the previous year. It represents the highest rate of growth since January 2014.

Britain's services sector grew more quickly than expected last month, though the clouds of Brexit still loomed. The latest survey from IHS Markit and the Chartered Institute of Procurement and Supply threw out an index reading of 54 for the sector in May. That was up from 52.8 in April and way better than the 53.1 that economists polled by Reuters had pencilled in. 

The sector accounts for almost 80 per cent of the economy, so this survey of purchasing managers is followed closely. It suggests that GDP is on course to grow by between 0.3 per cent and 0.4 per cent in the second quarter, much better than the 0.1 per cent of the first quarter.

Good news indeed Kar.

I posted recently on our strength in services and the necessity to look outside of the EU.  There was a detailed article written yesterday by an economist outlying the fact that our market with the EU in services will soon reach a point where it is negligible.

Seeing that 80% of our economy is based on that fact I find it madness to tie ourselves to the EU. regarding any future customs arrangements etc.

We wont be getting any wealthier if we stay with them that's for sure.

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I see they have named and shown the images of the man wanted for the attack on the women and baby in London.  Still as of yet though no sign of him.  or motive.   Surely cant have gone to far

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1 hour ago, kar999 said:

There's plenty of doom and gloom both economically and politically on here, and with much good reason, but I'm fed up with pessimism so it's time for some positives with a glass half full economic post again from me....  thanks.

Shoppers hit the high street in their droves last month, helping retail sales to grow at the sharpest rate in four years.

Figures released overnight by the British Retail Consortium and KPMG showed retail sales up by 4.1 per cent in May compared with the same month the previous year. It represents the highest rate of growth since January 2014.

Britain's services sector grew more quickly than expected last month, though the clouds of Brexit still loomed. The latest survey from IHS Markit and the Chartered Institute of Procurement and Supply threw out an index reading of 54 for the sector in May. That was up from 52.8 in April and way better than the 53.1 that economists polled by Reuters had pencilled in. 

The sector accounts for almost 80 per cent of the economy, so this survey of purchasing managers is followed closely. It suggests that GDP is on course to grow by between 0.3 per cent and 0.4 per cent in the second quarter, much better than the 0.1 per cent of the first quarter.

Indeed, kar, very good news...Has the super-fine late Spring-early summer boosted sales of warm-weather clothing, perhaps?👍

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1 hour ago, kar999 said:

There's plenty of doom and gloom both economically and politically on here, and with much good reason, but I'm fed up with pessimism so it's time for some positives with a glass half full economic post again from me....  thanks.

Shoppers hit the high street in their droves last month, helping retail sales to grow at the sharpest rate in four years.

Figures released overnight by the British Retail Consortium and KPMG showed retail sales up by 4.1 per cent in May compared with the same month the previous year. It represents the highest rate of growth since January 2014.

Britain's services sector grew more quickly than expected last month, though the clouds of Brexit still loomed. The latest survey from IHS Markit and the Chartered Institute of Procurement and Supply threw out an index reading of 54 for the sector in May. That was up from 52.8 in April and way better than the 53.1 that economists polled by Reuters had pencilled in. 

The sector accounts for almost 80 per cent of the economy, so this survey of purchasing managers is followed closely. It suggests that GDP is on course to grow by between 0.3 per cent and 0.4 per cent in the second quarter, much better than the 0.1 per cent of the first quarter.

And to add to Kar's positive post:

New car registrations in the UK rose 3.4% in May compared to the same month last year.

It's the second month of growth after a long decline in sales - largely due to a slump in demand for diesel cars.

"May's growth, albeit on the back of large declines last year, is encouraging and suggests the market is now starting to return to a more natural running rate," said SMMT Chief Executive Mike Hawes.

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10 minutes ago, Bristle boy said:

And to add to Kar's positive post:

New car registrations in the UK rose 3.4% in May compared to the same month last year.

It's the second month of growth after a long decline in sales - largely due to a slump in demand for diesel cars.

"May's growth, albeit on the back of large declines last year, is encouraging and suggests the market is now starting to return to a more natural running rate," said SMMT Chief Executive Mike Hawes.

It's a huge surprise, let's see what happens when we have left, and it will depend on what deals we get both with and without the EU. 

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7 minutes ago, Wiltshire_snow_lover said:

Labour ignoring the will of the people and trying to basically over turn the brexit vote.

Hello WSL

What you really mean is the will of 51 % of the people that bothered to vote and even of those there was a great range in the reason for them so doing. Many of these were nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.

I personally do not know what is going on as far as the Labour Party is concerned, but as soon as the unholy mess is sorted out the better. Hopefully the wide divisions that exist in this country will have been forgotten and a degree of normality ensues. At the moment it must be a bit like the "phoney war" in the late 1930's when the population was awaiting something to happen.

@kar999 that is indeed good news and to be welcomed even by us Remainers. How did a sector that interests me do i.e. construction? Hopefully on an upward trend too following recent dismal showings.

Kind Regards

Dave

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4 minutes ago, claret047 said:

Hello WSL

What you really mean is the will of 51 % of the people that bothered to vote and even of those there was a great range in the reason for them so doing. Many of these were nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.

I personally do not know what is going on as far as the Labour Party is concerned, but as soon as the unholy mess is sorted out the better. Hopefully the wide divisions that exist in this country will have been forgotten and a degree of normality ensues. At the moment it must be a bit like the "phoney war" in the late 1930's when the population was awaiting something to happen.

@kar999 that is indeed good news and to be welcomed even by us Remainers. How did a sector that interests me do i.e. construction? Hopefully on an upward trend too following recent dismal showings.

Kind Regards

Dave

He is basically proposing to stay in the EU Ignoring the majority of the voters who decided to make their vote count in the historic most democratic vote this country has ever seen 

 

Jeremy Corbyn appears to have sold out his decades-long position on the EU and backed a bosses’ Europe where the UK becomes a rule-taker to the internal market. Here is Corbyn’s new amendment in which he seems to pledge to sign up to EU rules on state aid and free movement:

 

https://order-order.com/2018/06/05/corbyn-backs-bosses-europe-with-fantasy-internal-market-amendment/

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2 hours ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Felt it worthwhile (now things have calmed down a little) and as the recipient of the post, I would like to point out that the above post was not replied to directly (reaction), but it does show the true instincts of the left.

Outside - all love and compassion,  but inwardly are  seething that they have not had their way and full of hate, for anyone who dares to challenge/question their views.

Additionally I would like to point out that no complaint has gone to Paul. Unlike when I questioned whether Mike was in contact with Brussels officials. I got banned for that, basically as it was considered to be 'personal'  and I was told that I ignored 'reason'. 

So no moaning from me. Just  a conformation of some people's biased position.

 

In reply to the above insinuations'  and lies from Malcolm.  (liked by many!)

I too have desires to improve the lifestyle and living standards for the less fortunate in our society. 

It is not  just the preserve of the left.

The difference is that I recognise that it will not be possible for this happen on a permanent basis.....

Just throwing money at the problems will only  serve to hasten the ending of this 'liberation'.

For example the increasing of the public sector under Labour in the period of 2000 - 2009 has led us into the situation that we could no longer afford to support that sector and its burgeoning deficit. OK it was a world wide problem - but we were not 'secure' enough to withstand the efects.

Something had to be done. The country recognised this in 2010.

Has anyone learned the lesson? (on here?)

I do believe that the  'fix'   has been taken too far, but nevertheless the situation existed and it has caused further hardship.

So improvements for the less capable, should not be undertaken before the economy is in a good enough shape to support the added spending  - not just in the short-term, but in the long term as well. This is where I disagree with most of the liberal lefties on here.

We have to ensure that the economy is capable of supporting these people.

I can hear screams/replies, 'SIMPLY TAX THE RICH'.

But already the 'rich' (at least the top 1%) are paying 30% of the taxation  in this country.

Any further taxation will have a detrimental effect. This has been proved on two occasions already during the last 20 -30 years were the country suffered with increased taxation. Each time the country has responded when the taxation was removed.

The top 5  - 10% of the people generate most of the wealth (and jobs) that the rest of the country requires to thrive, and then  to ensure that  the country have enough available income to support the needy for the long term.

To pretend otherwise is to support the world's communistic society and view of life.

Unless we are talking about the many spongers in the HOL!

So Malcolm, our desires  are not that far apart, it is the way in which we get there that differs.

Also I did ask a very straight forward question in my original reply? Does the blustering of your reply absolve you of producing a response?

MIA

"Additionally I would like to point out that no complaint has gone to Paul. Unlike when I questioned whether Mike was in contact with Brussels officials. I got banned for that, basically as it was considered to be 'personal'  and I was told that I ignored 'reason'."

Master of attempted spin again I see but the reason I made a complaint was not you questioning whether I heard personal contact with Brussels but because you made a personal remark which attacked my integrity - I feel that this should be corrected but otherwise leave it at that -  I have no wish to raise old stories such as this. 

I will agree that the level of taxation has to be finely balanced because if it is too high people are likely to try and find ways of avoiding it and as a result it becomes counter productive as far as raising revenue is concerned.

I'm afraid I did not get that bit about. 'Outside - all love and compassion,  but inwardly are  seething that they have not had their way and full of hate, for anyone who dares to challenge/question their views.' I think I can guess what you are getting at but it is not altogether clear. 

If you are saying what I think you are saying, in general the remain side try to put up well constructed views, supported by facts and also ask questions of the leave side but invariably they are  ignored and it is quite rare, speaking for myself that when I put forward a point of view and ask a question of a leaver, that I get a coherent reply - often if there is a reply it is one which avoids the question posed altogether. 

You see, we are all goodness and light and only want which is best for our country which is not brexit. However, you can't deny that on the part of the leavers there is evasiveness at times, something I generally don't like because it often means that people have something to hide. 

Nothing more to say on this guv.   :D

 

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11 minutes ago, claret047 said:

 

@kar999 that is indeed good news and to be welcomed even by us Remainers. How did a sector that interests me do i.e. construction? Hopefully on an upward trend too following recent dismal showings.

Kind Regards

Dave

 

Here you go Dave.. construction also still in growth territory albeit from a low base.

The building industry maintained its modest recovery in May after catching a cold during snowy weather earlier in the year.

The purchasing managers’ index for the construction sector shows the balance holding steady at 52.5, the same as April, after a sharp contraction in March, when builders were hit by extreme weather.

Any reading above 50 indicates expansion in a sector, while a number below represents contraction. May’s reading was above economists’ forecasts of 51.9 for the month.

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Hello again everyone.

For what we often hear on here to be a fiscally competent Government I have found it very strange what I read in the link below. Does it make good business sense? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44366731

@kar999 Thanks for your reply. That is indeed good news. My 3 sons are either directly or indirectly involved with the construction industry and it is generally a barometer as to how the economy is doing.

Kind regards

Confused of Springfield

Edited by claret047

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10 minutes ago, Wiltshire_snow_lover said:

He is basically proposing to stay in the EU Ignoring the majority of the voters who decided to make their vote count in the historic most democratic vote this country has ever seen 

 

Jeremy Corbyn appears to have sold out his decades-long position on the EU and backed a bosses’ Europe where the UK becomes a rule-taker to the internal market. Here is Corbyn’s new amendment in which he seems to pledge to sign up to EU rules on state aid and free movement:

 

https://order-order.com/2018/06/05/corbyn-backs-bosses-europe-with-fantasy-internal-market-amendment/

In that case we may as well stick with the EU as full members and play our part in drafting the rules. Once we have decided that we can then start to address the many problems we have, for which, whilst brexit is still taking priority, there is neither the funds, the time nor the political inclination to address those matters which so urgently require the government's attention.  

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1 hour ago, Ed Stone said:

Indeed, kar, very good news...Has the super-fine late Spring-early summer boosted sales of warm-weather clothing, perhaps?👍

Sales of food and drink, amongst many other items, boosted the figures.

Maybe that was us drowning our sorrows and/or those north of the border maintaining consumption of Buckie despite minimum pricing. 🍻🍾🥃

( sorry....  couldn't resist  😉😙)

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4 minutes ago, claret047 said:

Hello again everyone.

For what we often hear on here to be a fiscally competent Government I have found it very strange what I read in the link below. Does it make good business sense? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44366731

Kind regards

Confused of Springfield

Think the summary sums up the decision well:

 

Quote

 

The government has proved a lousy investor - but that misses the point. This was not an investment it was a rescue. The government had no choice - without the government buying shares, RBS would have collapsed taking the UK economy with it.

Does it matter that we are selling at a loss? Well, yes, it would be nice to have made a few pounds. Does that mean it's a mistake to start selling now? Not necessarily.

The government does not want to be the majority shareholder in a High Street bank. Waiting for the RBS share price to rise back to £5 could take another 10 years and, in the meantime, other investors would be put off investing because the know that one day there is going to be a massive seller of the shares - pushing the price down.

The hope is that over time, the gradual reduction in the government stake will make the shares more attractive and subsequent sales will be at higher prices. The other hope is that the government never has to get into the business of buying bank shares again

 

 

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