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EU Referendum

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4 minutes ago, Snowyowl9 said:

Replace that flag ASAP.

Older news from april the EU dictators.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/657120/EU-bosses-demand-European-Union-flag-stars-be-incorporated-into-Union-Jack

EU bosses DEMAND European Union flag stars be incorporated into Union Jack.

 

Ok..happy now :- )

122386.jpg

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8 minutes ago, Snowyowl9 said:

Replace that flag ASAP.

Older news from april the EU dictators.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/657120/EU-bosses-demand-European-Union-flag-stars-be-incorporated-into-Union-Jack

EU bosses DEMAND European Union flag stars be incorporated into Union Jack.

 

If the Daily Express reports it, it must be right:yahoo:

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You should note that it was posted on April 1st and it's also the express, well known for spouting complete rubbish.

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5 minutes ago, Updraft said:

You should note that it was posted on April 1st and it's also the express, well known for spouting complete rubbish.

April fool or not it looks nice:D

122386.jpg

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18 minutes ago, Frosty. said:

April fool or not it looks nice:D

Inspired a signature change. :D

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2 hours ago, The VFM Addict said:

I am not qualified in law but in connection with another matter I have over the last two years read pretty much every item of case law there is in respect of the common law offence of Misconduct in Public Office; everything from the prosecution of a Park Keeper to the more recent prosecution of a PC & PHSO.     What is consistent throughout is that the individual must have been acting in his official capacity and that is an essential component of the actus reus of the offence.  

In the case at hand both Cameron and the Cabinet Secretary, you will recall, were adamant that the Leavers were not acting in such capacity and hence restricted their access to information and the support services of the Civil Service.    This alone would be fatal to any reasonable prospect of conviction as it raises reasonable doubt as to whether the actus reus of the offence even existed.  

There is also little prospect of prosecution for this offence being other than via private prosecution, and given the ruling I linked earlier it is remote that any bench or Magistrates or District Judge sitting alone would even issue summons such as to commence a prosecution.   Even were such a summons issued it is remote that the CPS/DPP would do anything other than use its power to take over the prosecution and withdraw it.   The clear doubts there would be as to the prosecution even being able to fulfil the Evidential Stage of the CPS Full Code Test, such as for there to be a far greater likelihood of a conviction resulting than an acquittal, the CPS could do nothing else.

Truly this is not, as you put it, a highly technical aspect of law.   There is no need to paw the OED to consider and argue construction or balance conflicting rulings.   The CA ruling I linked is clear high authority and would be binding on all lower courts.    One has to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Leavers were acting in their official capacity not privately and in the circumstances of the matter we are discussing one could not prove that beyond reasonable doubt.    I say again, Anthony Eskander is talking nonsense to suggest there is any reasonable prospect of such a prosecution let alone a conviction and one does not need legal qualification to see that.    He's a young buck with very, very little experience at the bar who is trying to gain exposure for his name.   (It appears he was still in pupillage as recently as 2013).    But I'll lay a pound to a penny he will end up saying that after extensive study and consideration his professional opinion is that such a prosecution is not viable.    Good on him for getting exposure of his name, he's achieved it and I suspect that such was his only goal all along.

OK I follow your reasoning and awaits events - this was just one of a number of avenues being explored.

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I fort i would post just this one thing here... With out sounding smug :D.. Time to move on Remainers. 

the real figure is open to debate but any hows 

Brexit: Government rejects petition signed by 4 million calling for second EU referendum

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/09/brexit-government-rejects-petition-for-second-referendum/

 

petition signed by 4.1 million people calling for a second Brexit referendum has been formally rejected by the Government.

It called for a re-run in case there was a narrow victory for either Leave or Remain. 

Since it was started, the petition it has been the most-signed Government petition since the process was introduced in 2011.

The Foreign Office has now formally rejected it saying that 33 million people have had their say and “the decision must be respected”.

Usually when a petition on parliament's website gains 100,000 signatures, the Petitions Committee considers it for a parliamentary debate. 

In a statement it said: "The EU Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015. The Act was scrutinised and debated in Parliament during its passage and agreed by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords. 

"The Act set out the terms under which the referendum would take place, including provisions for setting the date, franchise and the question that would appear on the ballot paper. 

"The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.

"As the Prime Minister made clear in his statement to the House of Commons on June 27, the referendum was one of the biggest democratic exercises in British history with over 33 million people having their say. 

"The Prime Minister and Government have been clear that this was a once in a generation vote and, as the Prime Minister has said, the decision must be respected.

"We must now prepare for the process to exit the EU and the Government is committed to ensuring the best possible outcome for the British people in the negotiations."

 

I think a post Brexit topic needs to be made :) as either way this topic only bying time till one is made. Maybe then some on this topic will accept reality and stop trying to belittle and bully people. 

 

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16 hours ago, davehsug said:

I see MIA is still trying to claim he was undecided until the last minute, I mean , really, does he think we came down in the last shower?

Can I ask why you leavers are all still so angry? Why? You won! Do the FA cup winners whinge & get angry because they won, or somebody dived in the semis to win a penalty, but they still won? You were angry before, you're still angry, why? I'd be ignoring the lot of you if the boot was on the other foot, I would be happy & celebrating, sure I'd poke a bit of fun, but angry, all of the time, why?

Came back in just now and  would you believe it Dave is still at his lies meme???

Yet I posted several times in the 2 weeks before the ref   (I agree not Dave's invented to make it believable? last  minute)... that I would vote for remain if economic data was produced which showed me that the future for the EU was bright and that the UK could prosper in it.

The Treasury nor the posters on here produced anything at all (yep, zero)  on this..

Today, we now know why!!

The report from that well known eurosceptic organisation, THE IMF... has finally been published.Strange how they got the UK data out before the ref!

It is 'forecasting' the EU  gdp will drop from the 1.6 forecast next year to 1.4. Even by 2020 they cannot see growth any higher than 1.5%.

This is together with an average unemployment rate of 10.1%, with Greece remaining over 24%, and Spain at 20%.

They are saying that there is an imminent danger of a full scale weakness/ currency crisis breaking out with the major banking problems in Italy and now Portugal, and then the possibility of a major collapse in the euro with Greece, Italy, Spain and France all having major problems.

They are calling upon all countries of the EU to take in even more refugees.

The above has nothing to do with a Brexit.

This from the pro-europe IMF..... 

 

Dave -  it looks as though my assumed absence of any data form Osborne (or anyone else) meaning it was all bad news appears to have been correct!!.

Also over the last 2 days we have had many other positive message for the UK -

1) The Swiss banks want to form a relationship with the financial companies in the UK(City of London), which together with Hongkong and Singapore (also invited )  to form a banking organisation to overlook  the free world. This would take the sting out of any  attempts at control from Paris of Frankfort.

2) The Indians are also making overtures of a trade deal  which they say could be 'made in heaven'.

3) This also follows on from the Americans (ex Obama), the Mexicans, the Ausies and the Kiwis all wanting to ut deals with us.

4) Moody's think that the whole of the EU is about to have their cedit ratings downgraded.

5) the MD of InterContinental Hotels has forecast a boom in holiday makers in the UK, after devaluation.  Websites for aircraft bookings into the UK are running at levels 6 times as high as last years.

6) Osbornes expectation (forecasts) of bank rates of 0.8% before Xmas look like being smashed as the markets are now forecasting zero after a drop to 0.25% in the next 2 weeks. This means cheaper mortgages and more money in circulation for all.

7) Associated with 6 above saw yesterday's UK indexes, after the calling of the bottom of the bullding related stocks saw increases in their share prices of between 5 and 10%.

The FTSE 250 and 350 both responded strongly with holiday and building companies swamping the rest..

Why was this not explained by the 'remainers' withholding and misinformation campaign?                         Lieing by omission? 

If it had been then, (and as is thought reliable by remainers on here!),  I assume that 2 million voters would have changed their minds.the the result of the    ref would have been at least 60 to 40 in favor of leaving:):):cc_confused:

If,if,if then pigs might f--

MIA

 

 

 

Edited by Midlands Ice Age
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1 hour ago, Frosty. said:

April fool or not it looks nice:D

122386.jpg

It give the old girl a bit of a makeover, some much needed sparkle or bling. Can someone do a saltire with the Euro stars, that'd be a laugh. 

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32 minutes ago, lfcdude said:

Maybe then some on this topic will accept reality

 

The reality is that nothing has happened yet except Bojo, Gove & Farage have left the spotlight, there is no sign of Article 50 being activated and who knows, we may yet stay in !:drunk:

european-union-flag-std_1.jpg.52ceccd7ed5fffb32bb81ad6bca493f5.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Ravelin said:

It give the old girl a bit of a makeover, some much needed sparkle or bling. Can someone do a saltire with the Euro stars, that'd be a laugh. 

You need to incorporate this

st-pirans-flag.jpg

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The first legal attempt to prevent Brexit is set for a preliminary hearing so this ain't over yet Brexit!:spiteful:

It's not the beginning of the end, it's just the end of the beginning:D

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42 minutes ago, Midlands Ice Age said:

Came back in just now and  would you believe it Dave is still at his lies meme???

Yet I posted several times in the 2 weeks before the ref   (I agree not Dave's invented to make it believable? last  minute)... that I would vote for remain if economic data was produced which showed me that the future for the EU was bright and that the UK could prosper in it.

The Treasury nor the posters on here produced anything at all (yep, zero)  on this..

 

 

I see your obsession with missing data is coming along nicely. I remember in the old climate area when you became an expert climatologist overnight your main theme, repeated ad nauseam, was that NOAA were hiding the true data to cover up their fudge. Naturally It was all in the public domain

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8 hours ago, alexisj9 said:

 

MIA's first post. Doing exactly what MIA said he done, pointing out what not to do to push undecided voter into the no camp, however although it's trying to sound like an undecided post, it does seem to lean on the leave side. That could be down to pointing out problems though like most remainers also did at some point in this debate. I'll leave people to make their own minds up. 

It looks to me personally that MIA is an expert in how politics works.

Alex..

Thanks for going back and finding this. I do not have time to spend all day on here. I try to move on and I have a bedridden wife to look after!. She makes Dave and Mike look like feline cats>>:):)

I am NOT a political expert or ever have pretended to be!!. I would describe myself as a golfer (not very good though!) and weather lover  who likes to dabble in stocks and shares very occasionally. The last time I traded before a couple of month ago was 3 years ago when I bought Unilever. ( A true european and world-wide  company)! I have found out a lot about finance, during my 25 years since I decided to invest my first  bonus into Perp high Income. I have never looked back since, and still hold the stock. I guess that is where I get my defensive and possibly slightly anti-establishment views from.

I have voted Tory for the last 2 elections but have not always done so. 

I have simply listened to what my  friends and acquaintances were saying , many of whom were  on the 'coalface'. I listened to what I was being told!!,(unlike most on here who try to tell people what they should think).      Your analysis of me is correct. I had a leaning towards 'out',  , but I was genuinely prepared to change my mind if I had been presented with a genuine case for staying. The 'status quo' message I was presented with (yes I still rock with them!), did not ring true. I felt something must be wrong, that remain could not present a positive case.

With my naturally cynical and enquiring mind as a trained scientist,  I assumed that if they had decided it was better not to give the data,then it was bad news that was being hidden. This pushed me into the leave camp.                            Sorry..

Can I also pay tribute to yourself, you always asked pertinent questions and have never tried to be-little anyone. I knew if you responded it would not just be the run of the mill response, that most remainers use on here.

MIA 

 

Edited by Midlands Ice Age
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MIA .. you know full well Brexit hasn't been all positive economically for the UK.

In addition to downgrading EU growth, the IMF also downgraded UK growth as a result of Brexit.

Ref point 4 - the UK has already had its credit rating reduced  as a direct result of Brexit well before Moody's view on the EU.

It may not be all doom and gloom but it's far from a bed of roses. The Eurozone continues to be a basket case and we did right not to join it but let's hope we haven't shot ourselves in the foot bailing out of the EU completely. Regardless, a failing Eurozone will certainly give us contagion on top of our own fragile self inflicted uncertain economy.

Edited by kar999
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11 minutes ago, knocker said:

I see your obsession with missing data is coming along nicely. I remember in the old climate area when you became an expert climatologist overnight your main theme, repeated ad nauseam, was that NOAA were hiding the true data to cover up their fudge. Naturally It was all in the public domain

Thanks Knocker...

I wondered how long it would be before you brought this up again! I ignored the bait last time, but I will take it this time as I have just watched Fish O Mania!!:)

Not the forum...but who cares!     ( PS I will not be reporting this post as not containing any actual data:)) .     For the record it was the models I have continually criticised by incorrectly making use of the data -,  incorrectly with invalid or missing assumptions . Come to think of it, you are correct!!, the Treasury have followed a similar technique, but have already been rumbled due to the pressure of a fixed time. This will catch up with the AGW brigade sooner or later...

But heyho who cares!       Not me!      I am prepared to wait as long as necessary until all the natural cycles of the weather have played out, before I accept you were/are  correct on the question of cataclysmic global warming.

PS I really think you are a nice guy too!

MIA

 

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1 hour ago, lfcdude said:

I fort i would post just this one thing here... With out sounding smug :D.. Time to move on Remainers. 

the real figure is open to debate but any hows 

Brexit: Government rejects petition signed by 4 million calling for second EU referendum

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/09/brexit-government-rejects-petition-for-second-referendum/

 

petition signed by 4.1 million people calling for a second Brexit referendum has been formally rejected by the Government.

It called for a re-run in case there was a narrow victory for either Leave or Remain. 

Since it was started, the petition it has been the most-signed Government petition since the process was introduced in 2011.

The Foreign Office has now formally rejected it saying that 33 million people have had their say and “the decision must be respected”.

Usually when a petition on parliament's website gains 100,000 signatures, the Petitions Committee considers it for a parliamentary debate. 

In a statement it said: "The EU Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015. The Act was scrutinised and debated in Parliament during its passage and agreed by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords. 

"The Act set out the terms under which the referendum would take place, including provisions for setting the date, franchise and the question that would appear on the ballot paper. 

"The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.

"As the Prime Minister made clear in his statement to the House of Commons on June 27, the referendum was one of the biggest democratic exercises in British history with over 33 million people having their say. 

"The Prime Minister and Government have been clear that this was a once in a generation vote and, as the Prime Minister has said, the decision must be respected.

"We must now prepare for the process to exit the EU and the Government is committed to ensuring the best possible outcome for the British people in the negotiations."

 

I think a post Brexit topic needs to be made :) as either way this topic only bying time till one is made. Maybe then some on this topic will accept reality and stop trying to belittle and bully people. 

 

That reply came from the Foreign Office - not actually the government per se - there are still other irons in the fire and I believe at some time parliament has to have a deep and involved chat about all this.

As much as you would like us to and we would like to we just cannot drop our convictions on this matter and give up - we are talking about the future of our country here.

I wonder what would have happened if the remains won?

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26 minutes ago, mike Meehan said:

That reply came from the Foreign Office - not actually the government per se - there are still other irons in the fire and I believe at some time parliament has to have a deep and involved chat about all this.

As much as you would like us to and we would like to we just cannot drop our convictions on this matter and give up - we are talking about the future of our country here.

I wonder what would have happened if the remains won?

As I said Mike, this ain't over yet, with legal attempts to block Brexit set for a preliminary hearing, and probably more to follow, there are plenty of i's to dot and t's to cross and lots of potential obstacles to negotiate. As a remainer along with almost half the UK and pretty much all of Scotland, I feel there is still lots of twists and turns ahead and we may end up not actually leaving at all..!:D

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31 minutes ago, Summer Sun said:

 

Well it seems like rather than the young generation not voting it seems that the extremely high figures for anyone over the age of 55 probably swayed the vote, it would appear that allowing 16 and 17 to vote would have not changed the result though it would have likely resulted in a tighter outcome (Leave winning on 50-51%). Still the voting percentage for anyone under 55 years was fairly poor at an average of 65% considering the importance of the result, I guess the cop out of the youngest not being bothered to vote can be at least shelved to a degree. 

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3 minutes ago, Captain Shortwave said:

Well it seems like rather than the young generation not voting it seems that the extremely high figures for anyone over the age of 55 probably swayed the vote, it would appear that allowing 16 and 17 to vote would have not changed the result though it would have likely resulted in a tighter outcome (Leave winning on 50-51%). Still the voting percentage for anyone under 55 years was fairly poor at an average of 65% considering the importance of the result, I guess the cop out of the youngest not being bothered to vote can be at least shelved to a degree. 

Yes over 12 million didn't visit the polling station in the most important vote in a generation so I demand a rerun!..maybe David Cameron should have hugged a few more hoodies during the run up to the EU Referendum :closedeyes::D

_42605175_cameronyouth203300_getty.jpg.0c1a51ca4954787774204bdcebab3e31.jpg

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25 minutes ago, Captain Shortwave said:

Well it seems like rather than the young generation not voting it seems that the extremely high figures for anyone over the age of 55 probably swayed the vote, it would appear that allowing 16 and 17 to vote would have not changed the result though it would have likely resulted in a tighter outcome (Leave winning on 50-51%). Still the voting percentage for anyone under 55 years was fairly poor at an average of 65% considering the importance of the result, I guess the cop out of the youngest not being bothered to vote can be at least shelved to a degree. 

Im 26 r u disgrading my vote? Most people round here my age voted and younger may i add to leave the EU... Seems like some polsters have ingrainded self in some people vote a certain way

 

I think some people need to wake up smell the coco and move on i find it sad people need such figures to realize their lost with out making blame on on age r ethnic groups 

Edited by lfcdude
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30 minutes ago, Frosty. said:

As I said Mike, this ain't over yet, with legal attempts to block Brexit set for a preliminary hearing, and probably more to follow, there are plenty of i's to dot and t's to cross and lots of potential obstacles to negotiate. As a remainer along with almost half the UK and pretty much all of Scotland, I feel there is still lots of twists and turns ahead and we may end up not actually leaving at all..!:D

For goodness sake, there will be no 2nd referendum. its absurd to even contemplate it.  Can you imagine the fall out politically over a decision like that.  It would cause mayhem in the country if a democratic decision was ignored and would send millions to the UKIP camp.  No government would gamble on losing support.

And what on earth would the defence case be if it could be challenged legally?   There could be no defence, no laws have been broken.

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14 minutes ago, kent said:

For goodness sake, there will be no 2nd referendum. its absurd to even contemplate it.  Can you imagine the fall out politically over a decision like that.  It would cause mayhem in the country if a democratic decision was ignored and would send millions to the UKIP camp.  No government would gamble on losing support.

And what on earth would the defence case be if it could be challenged legally?   There could be no defence, no laws have been broken.

Calm down Kent its just my opinion but there are rumblings that this is not a done deal by any means. I would find it very funny now that bozo, Gove and Farage have left the stage for it to all fall apart during the autumn / winter..not over yet!

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I agree, kent, there should be no second referendum.

But the brexit vote was marginal and compromises will have to be made. The majority of democratically voted MPs sitting in our “democratic” Houses of Parliament do not support leaving the EU. How do you square that?

The definition of democracy seems to be slightly mobile at present.

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