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The PIT

Hillsborough Inquest

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I'm sure there was a thread on this a long time ago but searching reveals nothing.

Looks like David Duckenfield is clearing consonance http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31928476

At least he's admitting the truth now which is good.

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Still nearly 26 years too late.

Edited by J10

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I am glad this is finally all coming to light and the families can get some justice.

 

I guess I can almost understand why he didn't come forward sooner, although he absolutely should have done. I mean if you knew that your actions had lead to the death of 96 people in a horrific way, then The Sun come along with the police and deflect and cover up and it gives you a means to escape, I'm not sure how many of us wouldn't have taken it. I can't imagine having that on my conscience, I mean that's 96 people you've unintentionally killed. I would hope that I'd do the decent thing and put my hands up, serve my sentence and somehow be able to move on, but I can sort of get why you might run from it. Not because of the sentence, which probably wouldn't be that long for manslaughter, but simply to avoid having to deal with it conscientiously if you can sort of live in denial.

 

I should be VERY clear here that what he did was beyond wrong and that he should have had the courage to come forward and admit it, but simply that I can sort of get why maybe he didn't. NOT that that makes it OK. I am absolutely not making excuses for him either, there is no excuse, more just trying to fathom why he didn't do this sooner.

 

I'm so glad there is finally Justice for The 96, it's a disgrace it's taken this long and all the other stuff that went with it.

Edited by Lauren
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Well this is an inquest so there won't be any prosecutions from it so justice won't be done yet if at all.

It would be nice if it went to court and the people who did the cover up get sent to jail but it isn't going to happen.

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At least it's an admission and some form of answer, even though it doesn't approach justice.

 

How can he have lived with the knowledge of what he'd done (or not done) all these years, though?

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I am glad this is finally all coming to light and the families can get some justice.

 

I guess I can almost understand why he didn't come forward sooner, although he absolutely should have done. I mean if you knew that your actions had lead to the death of 96 people in a horrific way, then The Sun come along with the police and deflect and cover up and it gives you a means to escape, I'm not sure how many of us wouldn't have taken it. I can't imagine having that on my conscience, I mean that's 96 people you've unintentionally killed. I would hope that I'd do the decent thing and put my hands up, serve my sentence and somehow be able to move on, but I can sort of get why you might run from it. Not because of the sentence, which probably wouldn't be that long for manslaughter, but simply to avoid having to deal with it conscientiously if you can sort of live in denial.

 

I should be VERY clear here that what he did was beyond wrong and that he should have had the courage to come forward and admit it, but simply that I can sort of get why maybe he didn't. NOT that that makes it OK. I am absolutely not making excuses for him either, there is no excuse, more just trying to fathom why he didn't do this sooner.

 

I'm so glad there is finally Justice for The 96, it's a disgrace it's taken this long and all the other stuff that went with it.

 

Running is bad enough, but I think blaming innocent people is the real kick in the teeth for the families.

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Running is bad enough, but I think blaming innocent people is the real kick in the teeth for the families.

 

It was a cowardly act for sure.

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So, how long (or should that be short) a prison sentence might he get if his "confession" does change the situation as regards legal action? What's the shortest for manslaughter of 96 people for a member of the public and by how much does that get reduced if the person concerned is a police officer, leaving aside any concerns about whether they weren't competent to do the job?

Edited by Crepuscular Ray

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I've read somewhere that there hasn't ever been a successful prosecution for man slaughter against the police. Considering blatant cases like PC Harwood didn't produce the result I see little chance of any successful court case.

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As with many other so called ongoing reports/investigations, I see his past actions as nothing more than attempt to string things out until he becomes too old or too ill to face the full consequences of his mistakes.  What again makes this even worse is many others have been complicit in allowing this to be dragged out for over 1/4 of a century, just like many other have been and remain complicit in covering up the truth about historical child abuse. Reports/investigations no doubt have a place and a part to play, but whilst we effectively continue to allow them unlimited time to draw even the most basic conclusions, those holding power and pulling the strings will remain fully in control.

Edited by coldcomfort

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Was there any error or omission by commanding officers which caused or contributed to the crush on the terrace? Jury answer Yes

 

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Finally, this inquest should have happened years ago. I hope the affected families can finally get on with things now.

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2 minutes ago, alexisj9 said:

Finally, this inquest should have happened years ago. I hope the affected families can finally get on with things now.

I doubt it will be quite that easy.

"Following today's verdicts, the CPS confirms it will now begin considering criminal charges over Hillsborough."

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1 minute ago, Ravelin said:

I doubt it will be quite that easy.

"Following today's verdicts, the CPS confirms it will now begin considering criminal charges over Hillsborough."

Wow well it's well deserved but I suppose it puts a bit more pressure on the family's. I hope they get the right results.

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It's a shame it's took so long.

Why the police felt it necessary to cover up which is still the default position whenever they are questioned over matters where they let the public down I don't know. It doesn't help keep faith in the Police rather the opposite. If they had done the job properly, and this not the constables on duty that day who did the best they could without any management this would have done and dusted a few years after the event and the public would more faith in their ability.

Others who will be feeling nervous are Sheffield Wednesday and the lack of safety certificate, FA for letting the tie go ahead despite the lack of a safety certificate Ambulance services.

I expect any prosecution against the police will fail as normal but are you going after individuals when it's really the organization country wide that's the issue?

 

Edited by The PIT

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Glad the truth finally came out. Liverpool fans weren't to blame, standing at a football match wasn't to blame - the incompetent authorities were.

Unfortunately, I don't think the attitudes of police towards football fans have changed much since then.

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Let's see what actual prosecutions follow here -  taking 27 years to confirm what most knew 27 hours after the tragedy does not fill me with much confidence that true justice will ever be done here...but I very much hope I'm wrong.

Edited by coldcomfort

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2 minutes ago, coldcomfort said:

Let's see what actual prosecutions follow here -  taking 27 years to confirm what most knew 27 hours after the tragedy does not fill me with much confidence that true justice will ever be done here...but I very much hope I'm wrong.

Very much agree CC, It really has been/is a complete shambles. Yorkshire police should be hanging there heads in shame. There job is to protect the public..

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Well he should have resigned over the Rotherham child sex scandal. Shouldn't the chief constable of the force that investigated SYP and were heavily involved in the cover up also resign?

The day after they inquest the families are wanting prosecutions. Well they won't get the police but they may get SWFC and the company that didn't update the safety certificate plus the FA.

 

Apparently during the inquiry syp were trying to cover things up hence the resignation.

Edited by The PIT

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Shocking it took 27 years for the truth to come out.

Especially sad for those campaigners who never lived to see yesterday.

Edited by J10
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Freemasonry linked to ‘police cover-up’ of Hillsborough disaster that left 96 dead.

https://www.rt.com/uk/341012-freemasons-propaganda-police-corruption/

Freemasonry has been linked to allegations of a police cover-up concerning the Hillsborough disaster, as a decades-long battle for justice for the families of 96 people who died that fateful day rolls on.

Freemasons’ power and influence in Britain and allegations that Scotland Yard ran a “black propaganda unit” are being probed by two separate criminal inquiries due to come to a close by the end of 2016.

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One of the first things I was taught on become a constable was that I should discharge my duties without fear or favour.

The second thing was that I would be liable in law for my actions as an individual, so if I broke the law I could be held accountable.

A third thing was that if I failed to obey a lawful order I could be held accountable under the discipline regs. but here there is an emphasis on the word 'lawful' - I could not be disciplined for failing to obey an unlawful order which is important here but there are other matters to consider as well.

Amongst the duties of a police officer the protection of life rates as the highest responsibility.

Here we have a situation where there is a football match being well attended at really a ground which was not fit for purpose bearing in mind the importance of the match.

The game starts before all the visiting fans can gain admission and there are many in an area leading to the turnstiles and at that time the ground was already getting full.

The superintendent in charge on that day had little experience in policing football matches and it appears that he gave the order to open the rear gates allowing the remaining fans outside to crowd into the ground where there was insufficient space to accommodate them all, so as a result 96 lost their lives due to injuries associated with crushing.

Up until now this was a very regrettable series of events but unfortunately in this life it does happen that people do make mistakes which lead to the deaths of others.

The interior and the exterior of the ground was under video surveillance so it should have become apparent as soon as things started to go wrong and immediate action should have been taken to regain control and in doing so this would have saved many lives but the leadership required from the top was lacking and things went from bad to worse.

We had officers in the ground who had only a limited view and limited information as to what was actually happening who may have mistakenly viewed the situation as a disturbance developing which would require a different approach to actually going in and saving lives. As it became more clear a number of officers did go in to try and save lives but these were the actions of individuals rather than a co-ordinated properly led action. In fact a response similar to headless chickens without proper direction or leadership.

This led to delay in getting ambulances into the ground which could have saved further lives.

I strongly suspect that the first thoughts of the officer in charge were along the lines of, 'What a bloody mess - how do I get out of this one' rather 'Let's get this under control and save as many lives as possible'.

The easiest way to absolve the police of any blame, or so it seemed at the time, would be to put the blame onto fans misbehaving, so the self preservation of the senior officers present became of paramount importance.

As usual with such an incident as this all the police officers present would be required to submit statements of evidence describing what they could of the situation and I have little doubt that by far the majority of the junior officers would have submitted factual statements of evidence within their experience. 

But this was not the story the senior officers wished to portray so they resorted to Enid Blyton's story telling manual to fabricate and exaggerate events which tended to blame the fans.

By that time they would have got further officers involved to supervise the submission of the statements and telling, where they saw fit, junior officers to amend their statements to fit in with the story agreed from on high.

These orders were without doubt unlawful and the officers were under no obligation to obey them. However, despite this there are ways of exerting pressure within the police service which range from promises to threats in relation to their chosen career, so some succumbed.

Thus an official version of events was built up which led to officers feeling obliged to follow what was in their doctored statements at the subsequent inquest rather than describe truthfully and factually the events within their knowledge.

In fact they had committed perjury, a criminal offence.

The senior and other officers who had gone out to manufacture a false impression of events committed a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and a number of them would have committed the offences of misconduct in a public office.

It does not stop just there because the Rotherham situation tends to suggest that other senior police officers in South Yorks were discriminatory in the exercise of their duties tending to put political correctness above the lives and welfare of young girls.

This attitude has been an insidious disease which has crept into the ranks of senior police officers over the past few decades leading many to put their own personal advancement above their duty to the public and above the members of the staff they control.

Then what happens is that when it comes round to selecting people for promotion they tend to select people in their own likeness which means that this attitude persists through time with the public and junior officers getting the rough end of the stick.

It was obvious that the policing of this football match was an absolute cock up but the results were not intended - it would have been far better for the officer in charge to have put up his hands and say, 'I'm sorry, I made a mistake' that being in giving the order to open the gates - he could have been made the subject of a discipline hearing if it was shown that he was neglectful of his duty but that would depend on evidence to show this, so it is not altogether certain that this would have happened, especially if as soon as he possibly could got a grip of the situation and put other human life above his own personal considerations.

This is not over by a long way yet and a thorough criminal investigation is now taking place with a view to prosecuting the guilty parties.

As it is now the senior officers involved in fabricating the cover up should be put on trial for the offences described and where found guilty sentenced to imprisonment.

The ones I do feel sorry for are the young officers who were put under pressure to alter their statements but despite this they had committed criminal offences in the submission of these statements and if their evidence followed these at the inquest, perjury.

It may be however that the CPS may consider that it would not be in the public interest to prosecute each and every one and in any case the evidence of these people may be necessary to prove the cases against those higher up the scale.

I just hope that the lessons of not being a law unto themselves is well and truly learned by the police service in general and that to serve without fear or favour is well and truly engrained in all ranks but human nature being what it is there are bound to be exceptions but let it be shown that they are unacceptable and can be rooted out because they are not serving either the public or the police service that way. 

 

   

 

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