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Snowyowl9

Tasers

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These children are not 6 they're seventeen year olds ect who should have the mental capacity to know better. Tasers are used in rare circumstances, to protect lives and avert harm to others. All for them.

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I just don't trust the police with any weapon to be honest.

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I just don't trust the police with any weapon to be honest.

It will always be a problem unless there's a reliable system of bringing rogue Police to book. Unfortunately there isn't. Good news for natural bullies and bad news for Good coppers who can deal with a situation without having to resort to violence.

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It will always be a problem unless there's a reliable system of bringing rogue Police to book. Unfortunately there isn't. Good news for natural bullies and bad news for Good coppers who can deal with a situation without having to resort to violence.

 

We're slowly heading towards police being routinely armed, a dangerous road to go down IMO

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We're slowly heading towards police being routinely armed, a dangerous road to go down IMO

 

Perhaps but I don't ever recall seeing the scale of violence amongst drunken people at kicking out time abroad at bars in several countries where police are armed to the teeth.

 

People behave when threat of real punishment exists?

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We're slowly heading towards police being routinely armed, a dangerous road to go down IMO

Hardly? we need some sort of protection from these crazed extremists. Firearms are only used when necessary.

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Will the police now have to ask the age of the criminal rushing towards them with an axe?

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We're slowly heading towards police being routinely armed, a dangerous road to go down IMO

 

I agree to an extent. Would never wish to see police walking round with guns (routinely, as in America). They pull them way to quickly. Similarly i don't think i'd like to see all police with tasers, although they are a lesser evil as opposed to gun. Tasers can prove very useful in some situations

 

I don't have a problem with them being used on Children (e.g. 13 to 17 year olds). In many of those cases i suspect the thugish behaviour of such individuals warranted the use of the taser. The issue is when some police become to trigger happy with them, as in America. 

Edited by Mark Bayley

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This really does disturb me from across the pond

http://gawker.com/video-cops-shot-12-year-old-two-seconds-after-arriving-1663814827

In America I believe they shoot to kill every time, they have the legal right. If you fail to oblige, appear to be suspicious, about to harm someone or the Police in fact, they will not think twice. :(

Edited by Daniel*

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Hardly? we need some sort of protection from these crazed extremists. Firearms are only used when necessary.

Only in ideal world unfortunately.

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The US is a whole different more violent place.

Police Say Tasering 8-Year-Old Native American Girl Was Justified

The mother of an 8-year-old Native American girl is suing police who maintain that they were justified in using a taser on the child. The family lives in Pierre, South Dakota and belong to the Rosebud Sioux community.

Four police officers decided that this young girl who had a small paring knife was “a danger to herself,†requiring them to taser her.

But her mother says that the officers should have used non-violent means to neutralize the threat they believed the 70-pound girl posed.

It all happened back in October of 2013, but since then family members have obtained attorneys Dana Hanna and Patrick Duffy and their tribe has released public statements against the incident of irrational police brutality.

“Within seconds,†the officer’s electroshock weapon discharged snares into the chest of the 70-pound girl, the lawsuit reads.

“The force of the electricity shot through her body, lifted her, and threw her against a wall. After the officers had stunned (the girl) into high voltage submission, they pulled the fish-hook like Taser darts from her chest, gave her emergency medical attention, bandaged the holes left by the razor-sharp hooks, and called the ambulance.â€

The young girl will be traumatized by that.

Edited by Snowyowl9

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This really does disturb me from across the pond

http://gawker.com/video-cops-shot-12-year-old-two-seconds-after-arriving-1663814827

In America I believe they shoot to kill every time, they have the legal right. If you fail to oblige, appear to be suspicious, about to harm someone or the Police in fact, they will not think twice. :(

 

Hardly? we need some sort of protection from these crazed extremists. Firearms are only used when necessary.

 

Bit of a contradiction? You make it sound like there's a suicide bomber on every street corner.

Edited by Nick L

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I just don't trust the police with any weapon to be honest.

 

See this is the case of a few rogue cops making the rest look bad, I think. I think it's also very easy for us to sit back and be judgmental of a situation we know nothing about and act like we would have acted better.

 

I did a month's placement with the police basically shadowing them and I can honestly hand on heart say, I never once saw what I thought was an excessive use of force and the only times I saw a weapon being used, I thought if anything, I was surprised they hadn't used it sooner. Of course there were a couple of them on a bit of a power trip, but you get them in every career going AND they were generally disliked by the other officers.

 

We have a VERY different way of policing to the US and I think the bad rep they are getting over there at the moment is shadowing our officers as well.

 

The thing you always have to remember is bad news makes the news. No one wants to read 'Police Officer does exemplary job'. As someone who works in an industry that is constantly unfairly slagged off in the media, I can safely say if 9999 people get a good service, you'll only ever hear about the 1 that didn't. I have no doubt it's the same with the police.

 

Having said that I am all for the few rogue police getting punished properly by an independent board of investigation and for integrity's sake, I fully support police wearing cameras. If you can weed out the bad guys, it makes the good guys not have to carry the bad reputation of the few.

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Bit of a contradiction? You make it sound like there's a suicide bomber on every street corner.

No but there's always a threat, the population of the UK is what 65 million of course there's going to be some delusional person festering. We do not live in a harmonious society/world. Would it not make you feel safer?

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See this is the case of a few rogue cops making the rest look bad, I think. I think it's also very easy for us to sit back and be judgmental of a situation we know nothing about and act like we would have acted better.

 

I did a month's placement with the police basically shadowing them and I can honestly hand on heart say, I never once saw what I thought was an excessive use of force and the only times I saw a weapon being used, I thought if anything, I was surprised they hadn't used it sooner. Of course there were a couple of them on a bit of a power trip, but you get them in every career going AND they were generally disliked by the other officers.

 

We have a VERY different way of policing to the US and I think the bad rep they are getting over there at the moment is shadowing our officers as well.

 

The thing you always have to remember is bad news makes the news. No one wants to read 'Police Officer does exemplary job'. As someone who works in an industry that is constantly unfairly slagged off in the media, I can safely say if 9999 people get a good service, you'll only ever hear about the 1 that didn't. I have no doubt it's the same with the police.

 

Having said that I am all for the few rogue police getting punished properly by an independent board of investigation and for integrity's sake, I fully support police wearing cameras. If you can weed out the bad guys, it makes the good guys not have to carry the bad reputation of the few.

You certainly gained a good insight with your attachment Lauren and agree totally with what you have said.

 

It is emotive to use the title 400 children a year are tasered.

 

I retired before the onset of tasers so never had any experience of them but what I can say is that some of these youngsters of 'tender years' can be built like brick outhouses and can be quite a handful, especially where drink and drugs are concerned and it does not say whether some or any of these recipients are armed - first and foremost the police have a duty to protect the public. They also need to protect themselves and their colleagues.

 

As I see it to taser someone where it is necessary has to be preferable to being 'stopped' by a member of the firearms unit, which is normally fatal.

 

To introduce more rules and regulations over the use of these weapons is going to hinder operations whilst officers are trying to work out whether or not he would be entitled to use the taser in what is very often a fast moving situation and could possibly result in harm to others.

 

As it is the law requires that officers only use as much force as is necessary to achieve their object and excessive force can result in criminal proceedings for the officers concerned.

 

As far as I am aware the rule book which covers every conceivable situation is yet to be written, so it has to be the decision of the officers on the spot and they may well be called upon to justify their actions at a later stage and be called to account by people with 20/20 hindsight.

 

It may well be that the training in the usage of tasers may need to be more intensive but don't restrict the choices of the officer on the spot - if they are not trusted to make such decisions they should not be doing the job.

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I just don't trust the police with any weapon to be honest.

Does that include truncheons Nick? I was issued with one but never used it 'in anger' in the whole of my service - most of us used another secret weapon when the going got tough, i.e, our mouths - that can be surprisingly effective at times, then if that did not work it was time to use the regulation physical restraint to get people under control using just as much force as was necessary.

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See this is the case of a few rogue cops making the rest look bad, I think. 

...

The thing you always have to remember is bad news makes the news. No one wants to read 'Police Officer does exemplary job'. As someone who works in an industry that is constantly unfairly slagged off in the media, I can safely say if 9999 people get a good service, you'll only ever hear about the 1 that didn't. I have no doubt it's the same with the police.

...

Having said that I am all for the few rogue police getting punished properly by an independent board of investigation and for integrity's sake, I fully support police wearing cameras. If you can weed out the bad guys, it makes the good guys not have to carry the bad reputation of the few.

Agree absolutely with those points.

 

Regarding the rulebook on the use of tasers, there is a difficult balance to strike, since it is practically impossible to cover every possible eventuality with a rulebook and there are situations where it is best for police to be allowed to exercise some discretion (no matter how hard you try to cover everything with rules, there are likely to be occasions when following the rules absolutely is at odds with what is sensible), but discretion can be abused and lead to inconsistency.  I think there's going to be scope for the odd few to act over-zealously regardless, but the key is for those few to be rounded up.  I have a suspicion that the two examples of taser use quoted in the article are extreme cases rather than being representative of how the police generally use them.

Edited by Thundery wintry showers

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I think there's going to be scope for the odd few to act over-zealously regardless, but the key is for those few to be rounded up.

 

And herein lies the problem. There isn't any way the rogue elements can be rounded up. There hasn't ever been a successful case of manslaughter against the Police. I suspect one would have the same problems getting a success charge of assault against the police. Considering a tsar can be lethal I'm not that keen on them becoming the first point of restraint.

I can see a few more good coppers getting rather frustrated.

 

 

 

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I think there's going to be scope for the odd few to act over-zealously regardless, but the key is for those few to be rounded up.

 

And herein lies the problem. There isn't any way the rogue elements can be rounded up. There hasn't ever been a successful case of manslaughter against the Police. I suspect one would have the same problems getting a success charge of assault against the police. Considering a tsar can be lethal I'm not that keen on them becoming the first point of restraint.

I can see a few more good coppers getting rather frustrated.

 

Ivan the terrible had his moments...

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