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mike Meehan

Binge Drinking

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Might this be an answer?

 

Orleans to slap fines on Christmas drunks

The Local, Dec 10

Tis the season to be merry but taking the festive spirit that bit too far will cost alcohol-fuelled revellers in a city in central France €120 as part of the Town Hall's crackdown on street drunkenness.

If you’re planning to call in the New Year in the French city of Orleans, 110 kilometres from Paris, bear in mind there’ll be cops keeping a close eye on how much you’ve had to drink.

“Every year an average of 250 to 300 drunken people are apprehended by police,†local authorities told French radio station Europe1.

“It can take one or two patrol cars between two and four hours to process the drunkard from start to finish.â€

The cost of deploying Orleans’s police and emergency services as well as the general time-wasting which comes with it has spurred the town hall to implement “tariffs†for partygoers found to be too drunk on the night of the 31st of December.

Together with the local branch of emergency service SOS Medecins and regional public security authorities, Orleans Town Hall has set the fine at €120 to cover the transport costs of an ambulance and police vehicles.

If a doctor has to be called, the fine will be €150.

Though the French have long been known for their moderate - but steady - consumption of alcohol, the Anglo culture of binge drinking - where large amounts of alcohol are consumed in a short period of time - is now common among young people.

French authorities have being trying to tackle the issue by introducing prison sentences and hefty fines for those inciting to “drink until drunkâ€.

"We have to put a stop to drunkenness that does such damage to young people," said the country's Health Minister Marisol Touraine.

"Directly provoking a minor to excessive consumption of alcohol will be punished by a year imprisonment and a fine of €15,000" the text of her law said.

The draft legislation aimed also to prevent "inciting people to drink on the Internet", in an apparent reference to the global craze "Neknomination", a game which left several people dead after accepting challenges to down drinks.

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A night locked up in a drunk tank with suitable fines to cover costs would seem more appropriate. No breakfast and a nice walk home with no bus fare should help clear the morning after head. this assumes they are otherwise quiet and non violent otherwise it's the full arrest and prosecution route.

 

Much better than A&Es being blocked by nut jobs causing havoc, alarm and delays to genuine patients. I would also advocate discouraging (though not outright ban) establishments offering 'specials' like 2 for one or free shots with beer etc. before a given time at night.

Edited by frogesque

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Isn't this already basically covered with drunk and disorderly/drunk and incapable?

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Isn't this already basically covered with drunk and disorderly/drunk and incapable?

Indeed it is. There is ample legislation not only to deal with drunkenness, but to prevent it in the first place: It is an offence for a licensee (or agent) to serve alcohol to a person who is drunk! Unbelievable? Yes, but that is the law. Once a common sight - when did YOU last see a uniformed officer walk into your local pub or club? No longer! These checks would keep licensees on their toes, with regard not only to drunkenness, but under-age drinking, drugs, general rowdiness etc. Any issues would be dealt with on the spot with the licensee (now, more often than not an absentee faceless name above the door)Alcohol-related disorder on the streets would be dealt with by the police - but they aren't there any more. Their numbers have been stripped to the bone. Arrests have to be effectively rationed. He or she will first have to ask themselves what police resources (if any) would there be if I have to leave to deal with a rowdy drunk. Arrest has become a last resort. Many of our towns and cities are already no-go areas on a Friday/Saturday night. It's been like that for the last 25-30 years, and with police resources still being cut, it's only going to get worse.

Edited by speyweather

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Indeed it is. There is ample legislation not only to deal with drunkenness, but to prevent it in the first place: It is an offence for a licensee (or agent) to serve alcohol to a person who is drunk! Unbelievable? Yes, but that is the law. Once a common sight - when did YOU last see a uniformed officer walk into your local pub or club? No longer! These checks would keep licensees on their toes, with regard not only to drunkenness, but under-age drinking, drugs, general rowdiness etc. Any issues would be dealt with on the spot with the licensee (now, more often than not an absentee faceless name above the door)Alcohol-related disorder on the streets would be dealt with by the police - but they aren't there any more. Their numbers have been stripped to the bone. Arrests have to be effectively rationed. He or she will first have to ask themselves what police resources (if any) would there be if I have to leave to deal with a rowdy drunk. Arrest has become a last resort. Many of our towns and cities are already no-go areas on a Friday/Saturday night. It's been like that for the last 25-30 years, and with police resources still being cut, it's only going to get worse.

 

Indeed speyweather, you can legislate all you want, if there's noone round to enforce it it's irrelevant

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Or do the best thing and not drink at all..........

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Or do the best thing and not drink at all..........

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

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Indeed it is. There is ample legislation not only to deal with drunkenness, but to prevent it in the first place: It is an offence for a licensee (or agent) to serve alcohol to a person who is drunk! Unbelievable? Yes, but that is the law. Once a common sight - when did YOU last see a uniformed officer walk into your local pub or club? No longer! These checks would keep licensees on their toes, with regard not only to drunkenness, but under-age drinking, drugs, general rowdiness etc. Any issues would be dealt with on the spot with the licensee (now, more often than not an absentee faceless name above the door)Alcohol-related disorder on the streets would be dealt with by the police - but they aren't there any more. Their numbers have been stripped to the bone. Arrests have to be effectively rationed. He or she will first have to ask themselves what police resources (if any) would there be if I have to leave to deal with a rowdy drunk. Arrest has become a last resort. Many of our towns and cities are already no-go areas on a Friday/Saturday night. It's been like that for the last 25-30 years, and with police resources still being cut, it's only going to get worse.

Could there be a case for private companies carting drunks off to a place of safety, self financing through fines?  No soft option, just safe for the night then chuck 'em out in the morning with no brecky, bus money or clean clothes.

 

It would free up a lot of police man hours and help make town centers a bit safer at night. I can see there might be difficulties in the detail and I'm no fan of privatisation but car parks seem to do very nicely out of hounding motorists so could the same principle apply?

 

I know there's a lot of good folk far better informed than me on the forum, I'm just posing the question.

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Or do the best thing and not drink at all..........

Think I'd rather take my chances with the Orleans police to be honest. :drunk:

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Or do the best thing and not drink at all..........

 

No thanks!

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Apropos nothing at all really but I remember back in the 60s it was quite usual for pubs to have 'lock ins'. One Saturday night the police raided one of the most notorious hostelries (not the one I was in) but unfortunately found most of the off duty cops in there. Drinks were then on the house apparently.

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Indeed it is. There is ample legislation not only to deal with drunkenness, but to prevent it in the first place: It is an offence for a licensee (or agent) to serve alcohol to a person who is drunk! Unbelievable? Yes, but that is the law. Once a common sight - when did YOU last see a uniformed officer walk into your local pub or club? No longer! These checks would keep licensees on their toes, with regard not only to drunkenness, but under-age drinking, drugs, general rowdiness etc. Any issues would be dealt with on the spot with the licensee (now, more often than not an absentee faceless name above the door)Alcohol-related disorder on the streets would be dealt with by the police - but they aren't there any more. Their numbers have been stripped to the bone. Arrests have to be effectively rationed. He or she will first have to ask themselves what police resources (if any) would there be if I have to leave to deal with a rowdy drunk. Arrest has become a last resort. Many of our towns and cities are already no-go areas on a Friday/Saturday night. It's been like that for the last 25-30 years, and with police resources still being cut, it's only going to get worse.

That is exactly what I was going to say but I would go a stage further and add the costs of policing town centres at night onto the business rates of the premises concerned, then if they can demonstrate that they are fully complying with the law and not responsible for the drunks littering the streets they would be able to apply for a meaningful rebate.

Apropos nothing at all really but I remember back in the 60s it was quite usual for pubs to have 'lock ins'. One Saturday night the police raided one of the most notorious hostelries (not the one I was in) but unfortunately found most of the off duty cops in there. Drinks were then on the house apparently.

Naturally, what else would you expect? and if the landlord is paying for it all no offence committed. :whistling:

 

It is a waste of NHS resources to have drunks picked up by para medics etc then taken to A & E departments - these services should be for people who are genuinely ill and injured and the mindless idiots who never know when they have had enough are putting other peoples' lives in jeopardy, If taken there they should be charged a realistic sum to cover the charges incurred through transport and treatment, if placed in a drunk cell they should still be charged to compensate for the police time - if they have run out of money they should be held in custody until such time as a friend or relative can pay the fee for them - if they have no friends or relatives put them before an occasional court apply for a period of detention of, say up to a week.

 

Once these idiots know that we mean business it may start to modify their behaviour.

Edited by mike Meehan

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That is exactly what I was going to say but I would go a stage further and add the costs of policing town centres at night onto the business rates of the premises concerned, then if they can demonstrate that they are fully complying with the law and not responsible for the drunks littering the streets they would be able to apply for a meaningful rebate.

Naturally, what else would you expect? and if the landlord is paying for it all no offence committed. :whistling:

 

It is a waste of NHS resources to have drunks picked up by para medics etc then taken to A & E departments - these services should be for people who are genuinely ill and injured and the mindless idiots who never know when they have had enough are putting other peoples' lives in jeopardy, If taken there they should be charged a realistic sum to cover the charges incurred through transport and treatment, if placed in a drunk cell they should still be charged to compensate for the police time - if they have run out of money they should be held in custody until such time as a friend or relative can pay the fee for them - if they have no friends or relatives put them before an occasional court apply for a period of detention of, say up to a week.

 

Once these idiots know that we mean business it may start to modify their behaviour.

 

So surely it just needs the current laws enforcing, rather than piling on more legislation?

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Most trouble over xmas and new year tend to come from what we call once a year drinkers. Come in cause trouble with the regulars who are having a peaceful night and then get asked to leave. They then go up the road to cause trouble in another pub before falling over or end up in A&E after deciding that punching the local nutter is a good idea.


So surely it just needs the current laws enforcing, rather than piling on more legislation?

Government likes making new laws. Make it look like they're doing something when they actually not.

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So surely it just needs the current laws enforcing, rather than piling on more legislation?

Nick to charge these establishments a higher business rate is a way of encouraging them to comply with the laws that are already in existence - charges applied by the NHS are not without precedent - they already exist where hospitals make a charge in respect of road traffic accidents - in the cases where people are locked up for drunk and disorderly, it is already the case that they can be taken before a magistrate, fined and/or imprisoned and it is now accepted in courts that the defendant on admitting or being found guilty makes a payment towards prosecution costs, fixed penalty tickets for other than traffic offences are now common place, so rather than making up new legislation, this is merely adapting that already in force to become more efficient.

 

So as far as I am aware all this can be done under existing law - no need to complicate the issue by introducing new law - just ways of making the enforcement more efficient.

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Most trouble over xmas and new year tend to come from what we call once a year drinkers. Come in cause trouble with the regulars who are having a peaceful night and then get asked to leave. They then go up the road to cause trouble in another pub before falling over or end up in A&E after deciding that punching the local nutter is a good idea.

Government likes making new laws. Make it look like they're doing something when they actually not.

One of the last things the government concerns itself about when introducing new legislation are the practicalities of enforcing it.

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Most trouble over xmas and new year tend to come from what we call once a year drinkers. Come in cause trouble with the regulars who are having a peaceful night and then get asked to leave. They then go up the road to cause trouble in another pub before falling over or end up in A&E after deciding that punching the local nutter is a good idea.

 

Yeah I've never thought of it like that. New Year you get loads of people out who never usually go out, just not used to getting a bit merry.

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One of the last things the government concerns itself about when introducing new legislation are the practicalities of enforcing it.

Or allow daft things to stay attached like doing someone for using a mobile while in lay by because the engines running. Handbrake on car in neutral. Barmy.

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I was informed by my dietetic nurse the other day, that 4 cans of normal strength lager once a week, makes me a binge drinker. Iim thinking of applying to AA.

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Yeah I've never thought of it like that. New Year you get loads of people out who never usually go out, just not used to getting a bit merry.

Why I now do not go out on the 24th Dec as it is pubs full with people that never go out normally.

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Or allow daft things to stay attached like doing someone for using a mobile while in lay by because the engines running. Handbrake on car in neutral. Barmy

'It’s illegal to ride a motorcycle or drive 'a motor vehicle' using hand-held phones or similar devices.

The rules are the same if you’re stopped at traffic lights or queuing in traffic'.

 

It doesn't say anything about being in a lay by with the handbrake on, gears in neutral but the engine running - It depends on what is being held as 'driving' - it reminds me of a chap I knew being found in his car parked with the engine running on a street one cold snowy night after a night out.His defence was that the conditions were such that he could not get home and that he had switched on the engine to provide warmth whilst sleeping. He was found not guilty to being drunk in charge, however this was at a Magistrates Court and they are not always the best indicator of law but what I will say is that if I were still a policeman I would never dream of giving a ticket to a driver using his phone parked in a layby whilst his engine was still running.

Edited by mike Meehan

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'It’s illegal to ride a motorcycle or drive 'a motor vehicle' using hand-held phones or similar devices.

The rules are the same if you’re stopped at traffic lights or queuing in traffic'.

 

It doesn't say anything about being in a lay by with the handbrake on, gears in neutral but the engine running - It depends on what is being held as 'driving' - it reminds me of a chap I knew being found in his car parked with the engine running on a street one cold snowy night after a night out.His defence was that the conditions were such that he could not get home and that he had switched on the engine to provide warmth whilst sleeping. He was found not guilty to being drunk in charge, however this was at a Magistrates Court and they are not always the best indicator of law but what I will say is that if I were still a policeman I would never dream of giving a ticket to a driver using his phone parked in a layby whilst his engine was still running.

 

It just requires common sense really.

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I was informed by my dietetic nurse the other day, that 4 cans of normal strength lager once a week, makes me a binge drinker. Iim thinking of applying to AA.

 

Yes, I've seen something like that too. It's a stupid statement of fact imho and will mean people just ignore it. The people causing trouble through being drunk and disorderly at that level, would either be underage kids, very small adults, or people with health issues, meaning an abnormal intolerance of alcohol.

 

Frankly, a good proportion of the adult male population could drink one can of normal strength lager an hour, drive home four hours later and be under the England and Wales drink drive limit

Edited by Steve C

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I was informed by my dietetic nurse the other day, that 4 cans of normal strength lager once a week, makes me a binge drinker. Iim thinking of applying to AA.

If you drank 4 cans of normal strength lager every day though, you would not be binge drinking :D 

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If you drank 4 cans of normal strength lager every day though, you would not be binge drinking :D

You put forward a very persuasive case!

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