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Scotland to Reduce Drink Drive Limit


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That's what's stupid.

Everyone knows people 18-25 drink quite a lot currently.

The message Gould be enjoy yourselves, make sure your friends are safe and calm it down once you get older.

Inform people of the risks without talking rubbish.

Same tactic as the police in the 70/80s. 'You do one line of coke, you'll be addicted!'

'One pill, one blunt - you'll be an addict for life'....

Rubbish. It should be everything in moderation. You can get addicted to Coke if you snort it a few times. If you use cannabis of a long time it could (I dispute this but anyway) harm your memory. If you take an ecstasy pill, it may not contain what you think it does, it could lead you to take harder stuff...

That is the line they should and now (generally do) take

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Because everyone has a small amount of alcohol in their system from natural sources, even those who from abstain from alcohol.   Have the limit low, yes, but zero tolerance would mean everybody is a

Well that argument is kind of moot seeing as no one is banning drinking altogether...

As an average, a person will 'process' one unit of alcohol an hour, although different factors can affect this rate. There are roughly two units of alcohol in a pint of weak to normal strength beer. S

I don't like units it basically means nothing as it depends on the strengh of the alchol you're drinking. Plenty of strong guest beers round here so if you followed the guidlines you'll end up having a lot more units than you think.

The one that will catch most people out is the morning after. The majority of people leave the car at home these days or have an allocated driver. Gone are days that people sneer at you for having a coke or orange in a pub. However how many of these people are in the pub til late and then jump in the car at six in the morning?

The best course of action is not to drive at all and have a tester for the morning after just in case.

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I don't like units it basically means nothing as it depends on the strengh of the alchol you're drinking. Plenty of strong guest beers round here so if you followed the guidlines you'll end up having a lot more units than you think.

The one that will catch most people out is the morning after. The majority of people leave the car at home these days or have an allocated driver. Gone are days that people sneer at you for having a coke or orange in a pub. However how many of these people are in the pub til late and then jump in the car at six in the morning?

The best course of action is not to drive at all and have a tester for the morning after just in case.

I agree.

However, I think it should be either don't drink (maybe 1 pint) or plan for not driving till at least the afternoon

I normally plan for the latter. Even if it's 'just one pint', I know fine well what that means ie we're not going out but likely to have at least 3/4 and if it becomes 6/7/8 pints we might decide to go out.....

Everyone knows what alcohol does and how plans change due to alcohol so either abstain or plan ahead.

Many of my friends (and me included) have fallen foul of the 'just a couple pints, you drink slowly and drive us back'. Even drinking slowly, over a game of football 3/4 pints will be consumed and therefore pushing the 'designated driver' over the limit. Hence, I'm either in or I'm out....

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I agree.

However, I think it should be either don't drink (maybe 1 pint) or plan for not driving till at least the afternoon

I normally plan for the latter. Even if it's 'just one pint', I know fine well what that means ie we're not going out but likely to have at least 3/4 and if it becomes 6/7/8 pints we might decide to go out.....

Everyone knows what alcohol does and how plans change due to alcohol so either abstain or plan ahead.

Many of my friends (and me included) have fallen foul of the 'just a couple pints, you drink slowly and drive us back'. Even drinking slowly, over a game of football 3/4 pints will be consumed and therefore pushing the 'designated driver' over the limit. Hence, I'm either in or I'm out....

I quite agree, whether it's a weakness or just the way things are with drink I find it very difficult to have one pint when I'm out although quite happy with one tin if I'm at home. I'm also a sucker for 'guest' beers. That lovely tasting, real ale, grandfather's falling over water stuff where a pint will put you in orbit never mind a drink drive limit!

 

It's much better and easier to abstain, let herself have a drink and I'll drive us home. Next time she can do the honours.

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I think it's definitely easier to be teetotal than to drink in moderation, because a teetotal can insist, "Nope, no drinks ever", while someone who drinks in moderation can be pressured into drinking a few more, and then a few more on top of that. 

 

It is possible, because I am one of those rare moderate drinkers.  I have a self-imposed maximum limit of 3 "units" of alcohol within a 24-hour period and, in 12 years of pub-going, have never exceeded that limit.  However, it has on occasion led to awkward moments, such as when others insist on buying me a 4th drink, and saying, "Come on, it's a special occasion, don't be a spoil sport, get plastered like the rest of us!".  For designated drivers, the situation is potentially similar but concerns a limit of 1 "unit" rather than 3.  The problem is, there are probably many people out there who have enough willpower to resist for 95% of occasions, but could end up drink-driving on the other 5%.

 

The ideal drink-drive limit, to my mind, would be one which would deter drinking alcohol and driving as part of the same social occasion, but would not deter people from drinking moderately and then driving the next morning, or driving after eating a Sunday roast dinner with a mildly alcoholic sauce.

Edited by Thundery wintry showers
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Exactly, this is the problem.

I'm not as gifted as you and can't keep to a maximum. Tbh, I don't impose a rule on myself, just whatever I feel like if it's just a quiet one at the pub.

Obviously, if we're drinking in the flat and going out then it's going to be a very heavy one...

Pubs and clubs are mainly within walking distance so it's no problem.

Only when I'm driving home after going out the previous night does it become more problematic.

Why you'd encourage the designated driver to 'have another one' I'm unsure though.

I realise in your paragraph above it's when you're not driving. Are you seriously telling me that you've never had more than 3 'units' (pints I presume)??? I'm not sure whether to applaud you're level of determination and will power or to be mortified at such a poor effort.

Edited by SW Saltire
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I can't drive due to being partially sighted, so I don't have access to the "I'm driving" argument.  I recall one occasion (a house party) where I had rather too much to drink, but yes, on the other occasions I've kept to within 3 units.  The "poor effort" comment reinforces my feeling about it being easier to be teetotal than to drink only in moderation- people who refrain from drinking any alcohol at all are less likely to be frowned upon in my experience for not letting loose and getting drunk once in a while.

 

I doubt that many people would persuade a designated driver from having another drink, but it's not difficult to foresee people persuading someone without knowing that he/she was a designated driver, or someone being tempted to have a second drink just because others in the vicinity were, and thinking, "Hopefully I'll be OK driving back, it's just a short distance etc."

Edited by Thundery wintry showers
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Either you are and do or are not and dont.

 

my ex father in law was a lorry driver and he was caught with four cans of super strength stuff in the cab and over the limit (he was/is a drinker too), he rolled a forty footer because of it, glad he is off the roads now.

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I can't drive due to being partially sighted, so I don't have access to the "I'm driving" argument.  I recall one occasion (a house party) where I had rather too much to drink, but yes, on the other occasions I've kept to within 3 units.  The "poor effort" comment reinforces my feeling about it being easier to be teetotal than to drink only in moderation- people who refrain from drinking any alcohol at all are less likely to be frowned upon in my experience for not letting loose and getting drunk once in a while.

 

I doubt that many people would persuade a designated driver from having another drink, but it's not difficult to foresee people persuading someone without knowing that he/she was a designated driver, or someone being tempted to have a second drink just because others in the vicinity were, and thinking, "Hopefully I'll be OK driving back, it's just a short distance etc."

Probably a fair point re teetotal is easier than being a minimal drinker. There isn't anything wrong with just have 3 or so pints really.

It's just the culture (currently atleast) to drink far more.

I personally do drink quite a bit but I've only once blacked out. Some people forget everything but I don't. I remember most things an even when drunk retain a good degree of brain power.

What I mean by this is that quite a few people take other substances. I know that the problem with alcohol is that it's much easier to take these substances while drunk.

Thankfully, I do retain a good degree of conscience thought and I hopefully would decline any hard stuff.

A major problem is you have 3/4 pints... Not driving but car is there. People ask you to drive them, you say you can't. They get plastered and you stall on your drinking. You maybe do sober up a bit (obviously not drunk but not completely sober either) but crucially they get much more drunk. Therefore, your interpretation of how drunk you are changes. When the question is asked 2/3 hours later 'can you drive me home'... You think you can

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The other thing worth bearing in mind is that the increase of alcohol in the blood rises exponentially, so don't make the mistake of saying that a half of beer is just one unit, that extra half at the end of the evening could have a significant effect.

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The other thing worth bearing in mind is that the increase of alcohol in the blood rises exponentially, so don't make the mistake of saying that a half of beer is just one unit, that extra half at the end of the evening could have a significant effect.

 

Really? I'm a bit surprised by that.

 

Here's something interesting, from Wikipedia. Our current DD limit is in the third category here. It might explain why I 'knew I'd had a drink' but read as under the limit, when I self breath tested.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content

Edited by Steve C
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The other thing worth bearing in mind is that the increase of alcohol in the blood rises exponentially, so don't make the mistake of saying that a half of beer is just one unit, that extra half at the end of the evening could have a significant effect.

 

Are you sure about that?

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My understanding is it's a straight but not necessarily consistent rate with intake. Age, weight, diet, food consumed and sex all affect absorption and detoxification but the law is the law and from Drink Aware:

 

". . .

What's the law on drink driving?

In the UK, the alcohol limit for drivers is 80 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood, 35 microgrammes per 100 millilitres of breath or 107 milligrammes per 100 millilitres of urine. In most other European countries, the limit is less, usually 50 milligrammes per 100 millilitres of blood (3).

 

. . . "

 

The Scottish proposal would align us north of the border with most of Europe at 50mg/100ml of blood (and a corresponding breath test)

 

It is what would be used for conviction (via a breath test) regardless of whether it's a night out, the morning after or a glass (or three) of wine before the school run. But, one minor shunt, the police are called and it's goodbye licence if you are over the limit even if you could be deemed fit to drive by other critera.

 

I'm not sure if there will still be an option for blood or urine tests (I'll have to look into that)

Edited by frogesque
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It is now illegal to drive a vehicle in Scotland with a blood alcohol level of more than 50 mg per 100 mills of blood. Whilst this is something I fully support (and disappointed that England does not intend to follow) there is an incredible amount of misinformation and scaremongering being put through the media (e.g. "one pint will put you over the limit") A senior police officer being interviewed on TV was asked "With the new legal limit of 50 what does that mean you can drink?" "I'm not going to answer that question" he replied, "our message is simple - if you drink you should not be driving." So what about "responsible" drinking? Or does the fact that you enjoy a pint or a glass of wine with a meal out automatically label you irresponsible? I will have a pint and drive. If I'm out for a meal over the course of two or three hours I'll have two. That's MY limit. And contrary to many people's belief, it will not put me over the limit. With all the scaremongering many WILL be scared of having a single drink -  but is that fair? Today's news featured a Scottish roadside check, with numerous vehicles being inspected, and people being breath-tested (when more often than not, there isn't the power to do so!) All responsible people support effective drink-drive legislation. If the limit were reduced to zero - that's absolutely fine with me, (though I'll no longer be able to enjoy a pint with a meal out) The REAL drink-drivers already know the risks, and the penalties, but they will carry on regardless. So I do not like such blatant scare tactics being directed at those other, mostly responsible people. It is not illegal to drink and drive - the law ALLOWS responsible drinking and driving. Until we have a zero limit, that has to be recognised, without distorting the facts to get the message across.

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I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, I think it is far simpler to say zero tolerance on drinking (but obviously there would have to be a small limit for stuff like alcohol in food, mouthwash etc). That way no one can be confused about how much they can and can't drink.

 

On the other hand, I think this would be bad news for pubs. Our local is always busy after work with people popping in for a pint on the way home and it would suffer massively, as I imagine many other pubs would.

 

But overall, I think this is a good thing, avoiding an accident or killing someone by drink driving is far more important than being able to have a pint.

 

It's not going to stop 'typical' drink drivers from doing it though.

 

They need to be far tighter bout enforcing driving with mobiles too, I see this all the time.

 

Interestingly you lose just as much concentration simply by having a conversation with a passenger in the front seat as you do by speaking on the mobile.

Edited by Lauren
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OK, time to get shot down, is denying thousands the enjoyment of a pint after work, (not mentioning all the knock on economic benefits etc), really less important than saving just one life ??? Life has risks, sometimes someone is just unlucky, do we have to try and legislate for every single thing ? I think the balance is about right now myself.

Edited by Pennine Ten Foot Drifts
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rUK looking rather at odds with the norm; Scotland falling into line with 'draconian' Europe where half the folk have lost their licenses due to having a wee pint with lunch then driving later that evening. :wink: 

 

680px-Map_of_European_countries_by_maxim

 

Even if you did to decide to have e.g. a pint or a glass of wine with a meal in a restaurant eaten over a hour or so, it would be highly improbable you'd fail or come close. 

 

I'm in the 'if you are driving, wait until you get home' camp. If only because I like driving / being totally in control when doing so. Takes a lot to get me drunk (I'm not a small chap), but even after a pint I can feel I'm not quite fully on the ball any more.

Edited by scottish skier
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If you're banned in Scotland say 60 mg but you are English ,will you be banned in England where you've not broken any laws ,shurely not as that would be giving scotland legal jurisdiction over English citizens ,a few ECHR cases in the future I would imagine !!!.....

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I am a bit puzzled. How difficult is it?

 

If you are caught driving over the limit as it applies in either Scotland or rUK the you WILL lose your licence.

 

A hangover, a drink before the School Run or a night out can, and probably will, put you over the limit. There is NO excuse and the simple rule is: Don't drink and drive.

 

Scotland is leading the way on tackling its image of a hard drinking Nation and by coming into line with the majority of European countries this measure (excuse the pun) has to be applauded. 

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If you're banned in Scotland say 60 mg but you are English ,will you be banned in England where you've not broken any laws ,shurely not as that would be giving scotland legal jurisdiction over English citizens ,a few ECHR cases in the future I would imagine !!!.....

Can't say I know the answer to this but I think anyone would be foolish to try it out.

 

Your license would presumably be confiscated under Scots Law and my first guess is you would have to re apply to DVLC to get it back. Your conviction would still stand in Scotland regardless and good luck  running THAT by any insurance company

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Do not get me wrong I support drink driving reduction, but statistically how many die or are injured by other drivers and driving?  Would like to see the stats on how as I am sure drink driving is not the be all and end all of it, and as more laws come out are there more police to enforce it?

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Well to me that's not fair , being banned in you own country even though you never broke the law there ,btw I'm a professional driver and don't drink at all when driving , if God forbid I was caught not that I do ,I would fight it tooth and nail !!... P.s I have no problem with the 50 limit if brought in nationaly :)...

Edited by Mokidugway
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